Metal Sludge Gossip Board

Why is this such a big fucking deal... who cares if gay or lesbians get married. What does it really hurt?

Why can't Obama get this done?

adam wrote:Why is this such a big fucking deal... who cares if gay or lesbians get married. What does it really hurt?

Why can't Obama get this done?

I guess the only logical conclusion is that there are still enough hard line right wing conservative / religious voters, along with their elected representatives, who feel it's their duty to stand in the way of progress.

I've been married for almost 23 years, so on this subject I will agree with adam.

Who cares? And who does it really hurt?

What does it have to do with Obama? It's a state issue.

It's a state issue and almost every time the people have spoken in opposition to it, even in "liberal" states. So don't blame this one on the right wing. The majority of Americans oppose it.

JakeYonkel wrote:So don't blame this one on the right wing.

Does that mean it's a left wing conspiracy?

JakeYonkel wrote:The majority of Americans oppose it.

I think voters in Connecticut, District of Columbia, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Maine, Massachusetts, Vermont, Iowa, & Wisconsin have a different opinion, Jake.

I think Jake was trying to say that it's been voted on by referendum. When it gets shot down it's a simple majority thing. Political platforms and representatives aren't driving that one. I agree that it's completely retarded that anyone gives a damn who marries who though.

bane wrote:I agree that it's completely retarded that anyone gives a damn who marries who though.

Damn right!

Everyone should have the same legal opportunity to be miserable, & hen pecked.

pooldude wrote: hen pecked.

Hey! Bawck, bawk, baawwwkkkk.


Christ on a fucking crutch......my kid's college tutition has skyrocketed (don;t even ask me about health insurance0 and there are people who actually lay awake at night worrrying that somewhere someone might want to get married to someone with the same genitals. This is so fucking stupid....it just depresses the fuck out of me, really it does. I mean, really, what the fuck is wrong with people? Who fucking cares cares who marries who..why does it matter? Ask me about the son-in-law...he's a piece of crap...but somehw THAT marriage is hunky-dory because one has a dick and one has a vagina. Jesus.

And yes, vlad is quite tipsy...whoohooo!

Im a democrat, but its not just the right wing people voting this down. This also has nothing to do with obama. They said on the news this morning, that out of the 31 states that had a vote on gay marriage, all 31 were voted down by popular vote. This is not by your elected officials, this is your neighbors. Even the most liberal state in the country voted down gay marriage last year. The state with the highest gay population voted gay marriage down last year. All opinions aside about whether gay marriage is right or wrong, we live in a democracy. If there is strong opposition to it from both the left and the right then the country is declaring they do not want gay marriage. This is one of the things we got out of that "government by the people, for the people."

Hey Adam, you forgot to misspell Obama, oh excuse me it's Oboma.

Some things you will be excluded from....because they exist for a different reason. Simple. It isn't judging you. The term marriage is between a bride and groom. A male and female. I don't hate you....negate you....or even wish you not to have the benefits with your life partner as married couples do.

Boy scouts will never be turned into the kids scouts....there are boy scouts and girl scouts. NFL, NBA and several other professional sports teams do not contract women to play in certain leagues. Is this being sexist? Can things exist that are exclusive? My recommendation is to push for your own term. Civil unions? Trying to change the term is getting you very little. After all...it is the benefits you are seeking, right? Or is it?

pooldude wrote:

adam wrote:Why is this such a big fucking deal... who cares if gay or lesbians get married. What does it really hurt?

Why can't Obama get this done?

I guess the only logical conclusion is that there are still enough hard line right wing conservative / religious voters, along with their elected representatives, who feel it's their duty to stand in the way of progress.

I've been married for almost 23 years, so on this subject I will agree with adam.

Who cares? And who does it really hurt?

Who does it hurt, somebody's poor asshole is hurting but if they enjoy it, than it's their ass not mine.

i think people get tied up on the word 'marriage'.

gays think it's something they must achieve.
straights think it's something that must be preserved, all the while most shit all over the sanctity.

i think the ones looking for a a union need to look beyond what is considered tradition marriage, rename it, make that their own and then push to make that legal.

absolutely fabulous wrote:i think people get tied up on the word 'marriage'.

gays think it's something they must achieve.
straights think it's something that must be preserved, all the while most shit all over the sanctity.

i think the ones looking for a a union need to look beyond what is considered tradition marriage, rename it, make that their own and then push to make that legal.

I agree with that for the most part. I have no problem with gays getting married, and I think that in no way does it weaken the concept of "marriage." However, the will of the people is being heard and the gay community needs to accept that instead of fighting harder and screaming louder against it; that will only turn more people against it. They should let it rest for a few years and then bring it up again and see how it goes.

tin00can wrote:

absolutely fabulous wrote:i think people get tied up on the word 'marriage'.

gays think it's something they must achieve.
straights think it's something that must be preserved, all the while most shit all over the sanctity.

i think the ones looking for a a union need to look beyond what is considered tradition marriage, rename it, make that their own and then push to make that legal.

I agree with that for the most part. I have no problem with gays getting married, and I think that in no way does it weaken the concept of "marriage." However, the will of the people is being heard and the gay community needs to accept that instead of fighting harder and screaming louder against it; that will only turn more people against it. They should let it rest for a few years and then bring it up again and see how it goes.

I tend to equate it to the civil rights movement. It was the will of the people that blacks move to the back of the bus. The attitude was "I don't have a problem with black people, I like em fine. They have their water fountains and I have mine." etc. It took a lot of time and a lot of very dedicated people who often times came across as strident as all hell to change that attitude. This is the exact same thing IMO.

bane wrote:I tend to equate it to the civil rights movement. It was the will of the people that blacks move to the back of the bus. The attitude was "I don't have a problem with black people, I like em fine. They have their water fountains and I have mine." etc. It took a lot of time and a lot of very dedicated people who often times came across as strident as all hell to change that attitude. This is the exact same thing IMO.

I went to 9-10-11th grade in Jacksonville Fla in the '60s.

The "will of the people" mandated that blacks were excluded from attending the all white public schools, as late as 1967, when I left for California.

The majority of people in Florida (& probably most of the South) @ that time did not believe in integration. They resisted it fiercely.

They also made us listen to New Testament Bible passages with a Southern Baptist slant every morning over the PA in homeroom, & we were required to pray & pay attention, or kicked down to the Dean's office for heavy duty "swats" from a wooden paddle applied with great force.

I remember the pain, 1st hand.

Just because the majority currently swings a certain direction, does not necessarily make it right, back then, or now.

I bet even Sean Hannity would agree with me on that one.

JakeYonkel wrote:The majority of Americans oppose it.

That's not entirely true. The majority of VOTERS in a lot of states oppose it. Religious nuts always go out and vote. It's a guarantee.

deathcurse wrote:

JakeYonkel wrote:The majority of Americans oppose it.

That's not entirely true. The majority of VOTERS in a lot of states oppose it. Religious nuts always go out and vote. It's a guarantee.

Well, that may be the case, but since the only way to tally votes is by... voters... then that's kinda all that matters.

I mean, if I'm standing in a room of 10 people and someone asks, "hey, what's everybody want for dinner?" and I say "pizza" but nobody else says anything, it doesn't really matter that nobody else wanted pizza, does it?

PS How's that for a shitty analogy?

JakeYonkel wrote:How's that for a shitty analogy?

I sleep better @ night knowing we can almost always count on good ol' Jake Yonkel for one of those, if needed.

bane wrote:

tin00can wrote:

absolutely fabulous wrote:i think people get tied up on the word 'marriage'.

gays think it's something they must achieve.
straights think it's something that must be preserved, all the while most shit all over the sanctity.

i think the ones looking for a a union need to look beyond what is considered tradition marriage, rename it, make that their own and then push to make that legal.

I agree with that for the most part. I have no problem with gays getting married, and I think that in no way does it weaken the concept of "marriage." However, the will of the people is being heard and the gay community needs to accept that instead of fighting harder and screaming louder against it; that will only turn more people against it. They should let it rest for a few years and then bring it up again and see how it goes.

I tend to equate it to the civil rights movement. It was the will of the people that blacks move to the back of the bus. The attitude was "I don't have a problem with black people, I like em fine. They have their water fountains and I have mine." etc. It took a lot of time and a lot of very dedicated people who often times came across as strident as all hell to change that attitude. This is the exact same thing IMO.

That is insulting. The black civil rights movement and the people who endured it were put through hell....nothing like gay right activists. Not even close. They were enslaved...beaten, raped and treated less than human. Only to be "freed" and still have no rights. There is not even a remote similarity.
Gay people are not being stopped from the pursuit of happiness. I never once mentioned majority perception...because it doesn't make it right. I mentioned the failed attempt to push to change what marriage means...and has meant since it's conseption. No one is treating them poorly because of the fact that they are gay. They simply do not want to change the meaning of THAT word. That is reasonable.... So go for a different slant. Ask for a legal binding unionship....and I bet it will pass. Why won't the gay and lesbian groups do that?

Because the sacred meaning of marriage has to be defended!









Right?

JakeYonkel wrote:Well, that may be the case, but since the only way to tally votes is by... voters... then that's kinda all that matters.

I mean, if I'm standing in a room of 10 people and someone asks, "hey, what's everybody want for dinner?" and I say "pizza" but nobody else says anything, it doesn't really matter that nobody else wanted pizza, does it?

PS How's that for a shitty analogy?

No, I gotcha. If you don't vote, you can't bitch.

drloveschild wrote:That is insulting. The black civil rights movement and the people who endured it were put through hell....nothing like gay right activists. Not even close. They were enslaved...beaten, raped and treated less than human. Only to be "freed" and still have no rights. There is not even a remote similarity.

Gay people have been beaten, raped, and treated as less than human. They're free but they don't have the same rights as heterosexuals. They've been put through hell for who they are.

So in order to be persecuted you have to have been a slave? Who made that rule?

drloveschild wrote:Ask for a legal binding unionship....and I bet it will pass. Why won't the gay and lesbian groups do that?

You mean like the whole "separate but equal" thing? Oops, I forgot we're not supposed to talk about other oppressed groups.

Here's a compromise -

How about all the religious freaks shut their fucking pieholes for once and respect that the world doesn't revolve around their goofy fucking superstitions? I think it's ludicrous that a gay couple can't legally marry because a bunch of fucking retards think their way has to be everyone else's way.

Obviously I'm not referring to all Christians - just the ones who have their heads up their asses and can't accept that it's fucking 2009.

This is America. If we're not going to prove ourselves to be better than the religious zealots we're fighting in the Middle East, we might as well give up.

deathcurse wrote:Here's a compromise -

How about all the religious freaks shut their fucking pieholes for once and respect that the world doesn't revolve around their goofy fucking superstitions? I think it's ludicrous that a gay couple can't legally marry because a bunch of fucking retards think their way has to be everyone else's way.

Obviously I'm not referring to all Christians - just the ones who have their heads up their asses and can't accept that it's fucking 2009.

This is America. If we're not going to prove ourselves to be better than the religious zealots we're fighting in the Middle East, we might as well give up.

Pretty much.

deathcurse wrote:

drloveschild wrote:That is insulting. The black civil rights movement and the people who endured it were put through hell....nothing like gay right activists. Not even close. They were enslaved...beaten, raped and treated less than human. Only to be "freed" and still have no rights. There is not even a remote similarity.

Gay people have been beaten, raped, and treated as less than human. They're free but they don't have the same rights as heterosexuals. They've been put through hell for who they are.

So in order to be persecuted you have to have been a slave? Who made that rule?

drloveschild wrote:Ask for a legal binding unionship....and I bet it will pass. Why won't the gay and lesbian groups do that?

You mean like the whole "separate but equal" thing? Oops, I forgot we're not supposed to talk about other oppressed groups.

I may be racist at times, but you apparently do not understand what he is talking about. Were gay people taken from their home land and everything they know so they can go work without pay or be beaten or killed? Did they get stripped away from their family to go pick someones cotton on another continent? Were gay people ever refused the right to an education? because it was a crime for a black man to read during slavery. Gay people are not being told they can not be gay or have sex with the same sex. They are just not allowed to get married. here is websters definition of marriage...

1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law.

civil unions are fine, but marriage is between a man and a woman. The voters have spoken. Put it to a national vote and I am sure the voters will speak again.

slzrocker wrote:I may be racist at times, but you apparently do not understand what he is talking about. Were gay people taken from their home land and everything they know so they can go work without pay or be beaten or killed? Did they get stripped away from their family to go pick someones cotton on another continent? Were gay people ever refused the right to an education? because it was a crime for a black man to read during slavery.

That's amazing logic.

So in order for a group of people to be oppressed, they have to go through EXACTLY what African Americans went through? That's fucking absurd.

Women were never enslaved or taken from their continent - should we not allow them the right to vote because they weren't treated as poorly as blacks were?

slzrocker wrote: Gay people are not being told they can not be gay or have sex with the same sex. They are just not allowed to get married. here is websters definition of marriage...

1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law.

If you knew anything about language, you'd know that as we evolve, our language does too.

slzrocker wrote: civil unions are fine, but marriage is between a man and a woman. The voters have spoken. Put it to a national vote and I am sure the voters will speak again.

Quite frankly, I don't give a fuck what the voters think about this. It is unethical to discriminate against someone based on their sexuality. It's hate, plain and simple.

Let's not mince words here - if you're opposed to gay marriage, you are a bigot. Period. At least have the balls to not dance around that.

deathcurse wrote:

slzrocker wrote:I may be racist at times, but you apparently do not understand what he is talking about. Were gay people taken from their home land and everything they know so they can go work without pay or be beaten or killed? Did they get stripped away from their family to go pick someones cotton on another continent? Were gay people ever refused the right to an education? because it was a crime for a black man to read during slavery.

That's amazing logic.

So in order for a group of people to be oppressed, they have to go through EXACTLY what African Americans went through? That's fucking absurd.

Women were never enslaved or taken from their continent - should we not allow them the right to vote because they weren't treated as poorly as blacks were?

slzrocker wrote: Gay people are not being told they can not be gay or have sex with the same sex. They are just not allowed to get married. here is websters definition of marriage...

1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law.

If you knew anything about language, you'd know that as we evolve, our language does too.

slzrocker wrote: civil unions are fine, but marriage is between a man and a woman. The voters have spoken. Put it to a national vote and I am sure the voters will speak again.

Quite frankly, I don't give a fuck what the voters think about this. It is unethical to discriminate against someone based on their sexuality. It's hate, plain and simple.

Let's not mince words here - if you're opposed to gay marriage, you are a bigot. Period. At least have the balls to not dance around that.

Youre the one that was trying to continue the comparison on gay people and slaves by saying they were beaten, raped and oppressed like slaves. And it doesnt matter if you dont care what the voters say, this is America which is a democracy, we vote on things and make decisions based on what the general public want. If you do not like it then this is not the country for you. As for saying I am a bigot, I find it hypocritical of you. You say that Christians are crazy for thinking the world should go by their rules, but you are also saying that if we do not think the same thing you do about gay marriage then we are bigots.

slzrocker wrote:Youre the one that was trying to continue the comparison on gay people and slaves by saying they were beaten, raped and oppressed like slaves.

And I'm right. Obviously the two situations aren't exactly the same. Feel free to continue splitting hairs here.

Gay people are being oppressed. Blacks were oppressed. Women were oppressed. Jews were oppressed. Some had it worse than others but they share one thing - OPPRESSION.

slzrocker wrote:And it doesnt matter if you dont care what the voters say, this is America which is a democracy, we vote on things and make decisions based on what the general public want.

Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. I don't remember voting to go to war, do you?

slzrocker wrote:If you do not like it then this is not the country for you.

I love democracy. But I don't think hate should be on the ballot in the year 2009.

slzrocker wrote:As for saying I am a bigot, I find it hypocritical of you. You say that Christians are crazy for thinking the world should go by their rules, but you are also saying that if we do not think the same thing you do about gay marriage then we are bigots.

Um....you do understand the definition of bigotry, don't you? Look it up in Websters, Mr. English.

intolerance, prejudice

So you're going to be a bigot but you can't handle being called one? Sheesh. Bigots are the most sensitive crybabies you'll ever meet.

deathcurse wrote:

slzrocker wrote:Youre the one that was trying to continue the comparison on gay people and slaves by saying they were beaten, raped and oppressed like slaves.

And I'm right. Obviously the two situations aren't exactly the same. Feel free to continue splitting hairs here.

Gay people are being oppressed. Blacks were oppressed. Women were oppressed. Jews were oppressed. Some had it worse than others but they share one thing - OPPRESSION.

slzrocker wrote:And it doesnt matter if you dont care what the voters say, this is America which is a democracy, we vote on things and make decisions based on what the general public want.

Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. I don't remember voting to go to war, do you?

slzrocker wrote:If you do not like it then this is not the country for you.

I love democracy. But I don't think hate should be on the ballot in the year 2009.

slzrocker wrote:As for saying I am a bigot, I find it hypocritical of you. You say that Christians are crazy for thinking the world should go by their rules, but you are also saying that if we do not think the same thing you do about gay marriage then we are bigots.

Um....you do understand the definition of bigotry, don't you? Look it up in Websters, Mr. English.

intolerance, prejudice

So you're going to be a bigot but you can't handle being called one? Sheesh. Bigots are the most sensitive crybabies you'll ever meet.

Okay if you look it up, the power to declare war lies with congress. Congress does not have the power to declare what is and is not marriage.

and again you must admit the hypocrisy that lies with you bitching about christians thinking the world should live by their rules, when you are saying that people are horrible if they do not live by yours.