Climate change- what is worse?

[adam]

global warming or..

global cooling?

When did Al Gore say that Florida would be under water??

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

adam, is that fountain done yet?

[adam]

Master of meat puppets- my offer still stands...

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Master of meat puppets- my offer still stands...

This offer. What is it? Sex? Drugs? Power? ???????

[Luminiferous]

Free edge trimming with the purchase of a full lawn mowing of course..

[absolutely fabulous]

you should look forward to this global warming,
you could travel the whole world providing your lawn care services.
get your books in order, skippy!

[FullDJacket]

Man made global warming. It's a scam and now has been revealed to be such. Even it's biggest supporters in the "scientific" community know it. What a fraud.

Yes, just search climategate. Btw, did Al Gore claim to have invented internet? I just didn't understand a Jon Stewart joke.

[bane]

It's snowing right now, in Houston. Yeah I said Houston.

[Supersonic]

Whether this man made global warming is real or not, do you just do nothing?

Focus should be on what you can do to make your area better. Case in point is Southern California. Each time I've been there over the last 20 years, the smog has got far worse and the Inland Empire seems to be in a constant fug these days. It's seriously getting real shitty there and I bet there is a huge rise in asthma cases.

I bet the same scenario is repeated in many places in the US, Europe and around the world.

I don't care whether Gore is right or not but I would like relatively clean air to breathe please.

[bane]

Whether this man made global warming is real or not, do you just do nothing?

Focus should be on what you can do to make your area better. Case in point is Southern California. Each time I've been there over the last 20 years, the smog has got far worse and the Inland Empire seems to be in a constant fug these days. It's seriously getting real shitty there and I bet there is a huge rise in asthma cases.

I bet the same scenario is repeated in many places in the US, Europe and around the world.

I don't care whether Gore is right or not but I would like relatively clean air to breathe please.

Word. I don't really understand the republican point of view on this thing. I get that if you own a large interest in some industry that makes more money by pumping out pollution than they would by doing it cleanly that you'd have good reason to support the anti climate change propaganda, but for Joe Sixpack it makes absolutely no sense. The world is dirty. The oceans are fucked up, the air is fucked up, the ground water is undrinkable. Those things aren't propaganda. They're provable. A lot of that has happened within our own lifetimes. Who cares whether or not "global warming", "global cooling", or "climate chage" is real? If the scare of it forces us to clean up our act, it's a good thing. Those that continue to stand on their soapboxes and parrot the things that the big money polluters want you to believe are going against their own self interest. That's just plain stupid.

[upinsmoke]

Who cares whether or not "global warming", "global cooling", or "climate chage" is real? If the scare of it forces us to clean up our act, it's a good thing. Those that continue to stand on their soapboxes and parrot the things that the big money polluters want you to believe are going against their own self interest. That's just plain stupid.

On the surface, I can agree with this. There are many things that can be done now to improve our immediate environment, and should be implemented sooner rather than later.

I am, however, against false claims. These do nothing but put a bullet in the foot of true conservationists. Lies snowball and efforts to fix what is wrong are misdirected, money and time are wasted. There is nothing to gain by covering up the truth to fit into the personal, political and financial agenda of the liars.

[NickasInSaltLick]

Salt Lick on a clear day:



Somewhere near the top of that picture is some tall buildings.

Fun Fact: Mike Leavitt, Utah's former 3-term governor that took absolutely no steps during his term to help deal with the pollution situation, and whose family hatchery helped to introduce whirling disease into many of our best trout streams was appointed the head of the fucking EPA under the previous administration!

[bane]

let's make sure it's because of a legitimate concern and not pure b.s.

Pollution is BS? Really? I was on a camping trip a couple of weeks ago. There's this really cool remote place way the hell up in the mountains that I've been going to since I was a little kid. There's an underground spring there and we used to collect the water for drinking, cooking etc during our trip. Not any more. There's a big sign that says "Not safe for consumption. DO NOT DRINK" so now we have to bring in bottled water. That place is about 200 miles from anything. It's a hell of a lot worse in the cities. The bay just south of where I live is called "Clear Lake". They named it that because the water used to be crystal clear. Not now. It looks like the Mississippi. The water is shit brown. We never had "poor air warnings" or "ozone warnings" when I was a kid either. I'm sure every one of us can cite 50 such examples. There's nothing BS about that. I don't care what they use to sell it, pollution's ill effects ARE a legitimate concern and cleaning it up is a good thing.

[vlad]

There are dead zones off our coast that never used ot be there. There is one the size of New Jersey off my own coast. This year wasn't so bad, to be fair, but that had some to do with the winds that control upwellings...windy summers are killers.

You all may not think that matters much, but I can tell you, it should. They are hypoxic (lack of oxygen) and are killing the marine life.

It is thought to be irreversible now, and first was noted about 2002 and at the time was thought (hoped?) to be a one time thing. Now, years later it is known they are here to stay.


So you all who think that climate change is a hoax can kiss my ass. And buy our fishing boat!

[pooldude]

...restricting what type of light bulbs can be used in new homes or what type of cars are driven is another. Many people are willing to give control of many aspects of their lives to government regulation. Few are willing when it's been exposed to be just one big fraud.

^^^ Another example of right wing claptrap masquerading as "protecting our freedoms from government intervention".

My local far right am radio was just screaming about the new California legislation regulating energy-hogging big screen tv's, claiming it's a patriotic citizen's right to waste electricity if they want!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-b ... 7697.story

I disagree with right wingers who are so afraid of government intervention that they don't even recognize new energy standards are beneficial to all of us, by conserving limited resources.

Government energy efficiency standards are what forces industries to modernize & offer better products.

I have no doubt that profit driven corporations can & will rise to the challenge, if need be, because they will always figure out a way to take the working person's dollars.

That's why car manufacturers are making more efficient vehicles, with better gas mileage. They're not doing it out of the goodness of their heart; they're doing it because they have to.

Done properly, the government can set standards that help the consumer, & if private enterprise wants to earn our dollars, they have to improve their product.

The consumer benefits in the end.

I'm glad there are regulations regarding energy efficient light bulbs in new homes, even while poster YourMama is outraged.

[tin00can]

There ARE some things the government is good for. As PD pointed out, increased standards benefits everybody in the end, but for some reason even something that benefits everybody is somehow bad.

[pooldude]

Man made global warming. It's a scam and now has been revealed to be such. Even it's biggest supporters in the "scientific" community know it. What a fraud.

Everybody wants to have cleaner air. Not everyone is willing to have the federal government take even more of their hard earned money(in a recession no less) in order to do it when the "science" in many of these instances is merely junk science itself.

How can anyone argue with the sheer eloquence of YourMomma?

If we can learn to love & accept pollution & gas emissions, we'll save tax dollars!

[tin00can]

There ARE some things the government is good for. As PD pointed out, increased standards benefits everybody in the end, but for some reason even something that benefits everybody is somehow bad.

Explain how the pending cap and trade legislation would benefit everyone without raising their rates/and or increasing their taxes. Therin lies the problem. Everybody wants to have cleaner air. Not everyone is willing to have the federal government take even more of their hard earned money(in a recession no less) in order to do it when the "science" in many of these instances is merely junk science itself.

Where did I say anything about cap and trade?

[NickasInSaltLick]

Man made global warming. It's a scam and now has been revealed to be such. Even it's biggest supporters in the "scientific" community know it. What a fraud.

Everybody wants to have cleaner air. Not everyone is willing to have the federal government take even more of their hard earned money(in a recession no less) in order to do it when the "science" in many of these instances is merely junk science itself.

How can anyone argue with the sheer eloquence of YourMomma?

If we can learn to love & accept pollution & gas emissions, we'll save tax dollars!

Definitely not man-made dude. That's a fallacy!

[tin00can]

Where did I say anything about cap and trade?

Cap and trade is full of "increased standards". Surely they must benefit everyone.

Wow. Someday you'll have to take me step-by-step through your thought process.

[vlad]

Global temperatures have been trending downwards since 1998. Man made global warming is a fraud and has been perpetuated by the same "scientists" that have for years been "cooking" the books:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 99280.html

First off, the first quoted sentence is one of the biggest canards of all. I've seen it repeated for years...

And giving a link to a political blog for science? What next? I link to Daily Kos for the dangers of trans fats? Plus Robert Tracinski is a randoid (as in his claim to fame is writing for the Ayn Rand Institute) often quoted by ...so no agenda there. What next, linking to Pam Gellar for foreign policy?

The notorious hacks...here's an actual, you know, science blog, that is written by, you know, actual climate scientists....

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/page/2/

What's really tragic is that in the United States (and Australia to an extent), climate change has been made into a partisan issue. Just so fucking dumb.

[tin00can]

Are you familiar with cap and trade? Maybe I shouldn't have assumed so.

I must have missed the part where cap and trade is the only government standard, and therefore the only part worth arguing. Yes, I'm very familiar with cap and trade, and I'm against it. The standards I was referring to were things like increased mileage requirements for vehicles and the like.

[vlad]

And giving a link to a political blog for science? What next? I link to Daily Kos for the dangers of trans fats? Plus Robert Tracinski is a randoid (as in his claim to fame is writing for the Ayn Rand Institute) often quoted by ...so no agenda there. What next, linking to Pam Gellar for foreign policy?

There are hundreds of others if you care. I assume you don't since you choose to attack the messengers and not the fraud itself.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/ ... 8487.shtml
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysi ... ?id=513542
http://www.smh.com.au/world/climategate ... -kcrk.html

Seriously, can youlink to actual scientists? I hope you realise that "investors.com" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for science, when the bottom line is at stake. And the other two, again, where's the science? Why is it so difficult to find a reputable science source that backs your claims?

Sorry...I've was on the ground floor for this, literally, at a research institute in 1990 when the idea was first gaining ground. It's coming to pass...even the colder weather in certain parts of the world...

I will one last time remind people that it took all the fuck however long for humanity ( over a hundred thousand years) to reach 3 to 3.5 billion people. We have doubled that in 50 to 60 years. (including the U.S, which has also doubled) It really isn't that difficult to imagine that the industrial revolution and the massive population explosion have not had an impact.

The problem I have with your sources is that they have a vested financial interest in not doing anything to fuck with the bottom line. I really find the Australian perspective, in a few Australian newspapers, ironic as Australian suffers under an unprecedented drought and fires. Hello!

Even your response, essentially "CAP AND TRADE< OMGZ< THE MONEY!...HOAX< HOAX< HOAX!" says more about the real reason that some seek to deny climate change. Money.

And for all here on the sidelines? Aside from the news that some e-mails were hacked, do you really even know who's emails, how many were involved and what they actually said? Do you think that they reflect the global scientific community or are you aware of how specific they were, or even what was actually said? Or is it a general "someone got some e-mails that are TEH_PROOF!!!! that climate change is some global conspiracy by the UN and the antichrist to take over the world" and call it good.

One last thing, about Inhofe, the Ok senator who goes around calling it all a hoax. He had this famous list of "scientists" that backed him . He lists young earth creationists as "prominent scientists" and he himself also believes that, that and he is a Dominionist . He also lists people like economists as experts on climate change.. Oh, yeah he doesn't think that gas or oil pollutes. of course none of this has anything to do with the fact that gas and oil interests are his biggest contributors and the fact that he is just bugfuck nuts. And the motherfucker treats veterans like crap.

Am I ranting. Maybe. By the way, i don't know what I think about cap and trade. At best it is a stop gap measure..one I'm not that wild about. And finally, it is a ginormous failure of imagination to keep hanging onto fossil fuel technology as the driving force for energy. Where's the leadership of American know-how in innovation? There's an entire new paradigm waiting for ingenuity. But no................

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Seriously, can youlink to actual scientists?

Seems as though it's some of those same "scientists" you speak of that are the ones behind the fraud of man made global warming itself. Any of those links will outline that for you in a simple way that you can understand.

Damn straight! Fuck science! What has it ever done for us? What have they ever proven?

I can see why there are so many idiots in the world. It so easy.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Damn straight! Fuck science!

If "science" means hiding data that doesn't agree with your doomsday scenarios than I have to agree!

...and when science tells you to pull your head out of your ass also, apparently. As for the 'hidden data', it's the goddamn weather! How are they hiding it? It's fucking public record.

[vlad]

Seriously, can youlink to actual scientists?

Seems as though it's some of those same "scientists" you speak of that are the ones behind the fraud of man made global warming itself. Any of those links will outline that for you in a simple way that you can understand.

Oh you wankerous libertarian Randian butt licker.

Have you actually read the e-mails, all of them? From East Anglia University (that hotbed of the global conspiracy! All hail Norwich, we dirty fucking hippies worship at the feet of our dark Anglian overlords...none of whom I had ever heard of before this, btw. That's right, the "smoking gun" is East Anglia University. OMGZ, the horror! And guess what....I am the lizard queen, coordinating the illuminati from an undisclosed location.

Hey, did you know that 2009, so far, still three weeks to go, has is the fifth hottest year on record, with the past decade being the warmest...oh wait, but, but the trend ended in 1998!!!! Well, no it didn't. But you obviously have read anything beyond "Investors.com" and it's ilk, so how could you be expected to know that?

Weirdly, because I think God has a sick sense of humour, the only place that didn't have a warmer year, in fact, colder than normal, was North America....where climate denial is the strongest.

And what Master of Meat Puppets said.

[vlad]

As for the 'hidden data', it's the goddamn weather! How are they hiding it? It's fucking public record.

Google climategate and educate yourself.

No, you need to do your own research....and I am not seeing anything that shows anythin that matters. Right leaning blogs, news sources and a few articles. Well that showed me!

How about you google "fifth hottest year on record" and get back to me on that 1998 thing.

Global temperatures have been trending downwards since 1998.

Heh....

[vlad]

Did you get that from the same source that told you the warming trend was easing since 1998?

Seriously share the link. The implication that EAU is ground zero for climate research is bunk.

Oh, I forgot, scientists at the center of the controversy have received death threats, from the U.S. and the FBI is investigating. Who are the nuts here again?

[vlad]

Dude you really have to supply links and stuff....

Where is that from? I mean where did YOU get it?

Here's one with a link!

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories200 ... idsize.jpg

See, I can post a graph,too...well I'm not because i won't hotlink and am too lazy to upload it. And I give you the source.
The evil NOAA!

For all I know, your's is something Sarah Palin whipped up. I do see the print at the bottom, however....linky please.

I see you posted again....give me a link. Is that hard to do? You demand teh_proof, but give none yourself.

[vlad]

You know what, skip it.

You are going to believe what you want to believe. Keep on keeping on....and remember who your allies are. Palin, Inhofe, some dude from Saudi Arabia and Christopher Monckton. You rock! Keep up the good fight.