Hey middle class... FUCK YOU!

[JakeYonkel]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100201/bs_ ... kdoortaxes

Backdoor taxes to hit middle class

NEW YORK (Reuters.com) --The Obama administration's plan to cut more than $1 trillion from the deficit over the next decade relies heavily on so-called backdoor tax increases that will result in a bigger tax bill for middle-class families.

In the 2010 budget tabled by President Barack Obama on Monday, the White House wants to let billions of dollars in tax breaks expire by the end of the year -- effectively a tax hike by stealth.

While the administration is focusing its proposal on eliminating tax breaks for individuals who earn $250,000 a year or more, middle-class families will face a slew of these backdoor increases.

The targeted tax provisions were enacted under the Bush administration's Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001. Among other things, the law lowered individual tax rates, slashed taxes on capital gains and dividends, and steadily scaled back the estate tax to zero in 2010.

If the provisions are allowed to expire on December 31, the top-tier personal income tax rate will rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent. But lower-income families will pay more as well: the 25 percent tax bracket will revert back to 28 percent; the 28 percent bracket will increase to 31 percent; and the 33 percent bracket will increase to 36 percent. The special 10 percent bracket is eliminated.

Investors will pay more on their earnings next year as well, with the tax on dividends jumping to 39.6 percent from 15 percent and the capital-gains tax increasing to 20 percent from 15 percent. The estate tax is eliminated this year, but it will return in 2011 -- though there has been talk about reinstating the death tax sooner.

Millions of middle-class households already may be facing higher taxes in 2010 because Congress has failed to extend tax breaks that expired on January 1, most notably a "patch" that limited the impact of the alternative minimum tax. The AMT, initially designed to prevent the very rich from avoiding income taxes, was never indexed for inflation. Now the tax is affecting millions of middle-income households, but lawmakers have been reluctant to repeal it because it has become a key source of revenue.

Without annual legislation to renew the patch this year, the AMT could affect an estimated 25 million taxpayers with incomes as low as $33,750 (or $45,000 for joint filers). Even if the patch is extended to last year's levels, the tax will hit American families that can hardly be considered wealthy -- the AMT exemption for 2009 was $46,700 for singles and $70,950 for married couples filing jointly.

Middle-class families also will find fewer tax breaks available to them in 2010 if other popular tax provisions are allowed to expire. Among them:

* Taxpayers who itemize will lose the option to deduct state sales-tax payments instead of state and local income taxes;

* The $250 teacher tax credit for classroom supplies;

* The tax deduction for up to $4,000 of college tuition and expenses;

* Individuals who don't itemize will no longer be able to increase their
standard deduction by up to $1,000 for property taxes paid;

* The first $2,400 of unemployment benefits are taxable, in 2009 that amount was tax-free.

[JakeYonkel]

Wait, here comes EYU telling us it's really a good thing (or it's all Bush's fault)!

[bane]

Wait, here comes EYU telling us it's really a good thing (or it's all Bush's fault)!

"An expiring tax cut is not a tax increase"

[Ugmo]

I guess at these point I would say everybody who bitches about backdoor taxes better not start bitching about Obama's deficit either, because the Bush tax cuts are demonstrably the number one factor to blame for inflated deficits.

People want everything at once and then bitch when the government isn't able to pay for it without making debts.

"An expiring tax cut is not a tax increase"

Don't you agree with that statement? Bush cut taxes to their lowest levels of all time, and the result was ballooning deficits. You can't have it both ways - you can't claim to be fiscally responsible and bitch about expiring tax cuts that are largely responsible for the current deficits.

[Crazy Levi]

You know what cracks me up?

Yonkel plays the fucking lottery and votes for Obama...he's basically your typical welfare recipient.

yet he never shuts up about any of this right-wing party line bullshit.

Bush fucked this country up but good. He reamed us a new asshole, and ALL of our problems are his fault. You can get as sick of hearing it as you want, but it's true. That's not going to magically change because a measly year has gone by.

It's gonna be tough to bail ourselves out of this shitstorm and it's gonna take some hard choices. I'm behind the President in his efforts.

[bane]

If you want to argue the need for a tax increase, that's one thing. It's a valid discussion. We're in deep shit and everybody is going to have to pull up their bootstraps and pitch in, but call it what it is. Arguing that "an expiring tax cut is not a tax increase" is just dumb. If my tax bill goes up while my income stays the same, that's an increase. It's a stupid semantic argument so that dems can claim Obama hasn't raised taxes. Remember that whole "I won't raise taxes on anyone making less than 250K a year"? It's no different than "read my lips".

[Ugmo]

If you want to argue the need for a tax increase, that's one thing. It's a valid discussion. We're in deep shit and everybody is going to have to pull up their bootstraps and pitch in, but call it what it is. Arguing that "an expiring tax cut is not a tax increase" is just dumb. If my tax bill goes up while my income stays the same, that's an increase. It's a stupid semantic argument so that dems can claim Obama hasn't raised taxes. Remember that whole "I won't raise taxes on anyone making less than 250K a year"? It's no different than "read my lips".

I understand what you're saying, but keep in mind they are phrasing it like this to preempt the inevitable GOP talking point that Obama is trying to soak the middle class, when it was the GOP guy who passed fiscally irresponsible tax cuts in the first place. You know how that shit works - Frank Luntz has already researched, defined and distributed the talking points that the Republicans will be using against Obama next year to gain seats in November. If the Democrats don't counter that they will let the Republicans define the terms of the debate, and will lose seats in November no matter how well they perform in terms of policy.

[JakeYonkel]

You know what cracks me up?

Yonkel plays the fucking lottery and votes for Obama...he's basically your typical welfare recipient.

yet he never shuts up about any of this right-wing party line bullshit.

I'm firmly entrenched in the middle class.

As I've said several times. Bush pandered to the high class and Obama made the low class his base. Either way we've gotten fucked.

Call me a welfare recipient all you want, I'm not rich. My government "hand-out" makes for a reasonable yearly salary. Combine that with my wife's salary and we live comfortably but not extravagantly by any stretch. So yeah, this shit does matter to me.

[Ugmo]

Call me a welfare recipient all you want, I'm not rich. My government "hand-out" makes for a reasonable yearly salary. Combine that with my wife's salary and we live comfortably but not extravagantly by any stretch. So yeah, this shit does matter to me.

Dude, I don't know if you've talked about this before, and believe me it's not an attack, but do you work or go to school or... what do you do during the day?

[Drunk Kennedy]

jake...how much did you win anyway? did you take the lump sum, or monthly pay??

how much is it after taxes?

im just curious....if you dont want to post it publicly, plz PM me...or tell me its none of my biz and to fuck off!

[bane]

If you want to argue the need for a tax increase, that's one thing. It's a valid discussion. We're in deep shit and everybody is going to have to pull up their bootstraps and pitch in, but call it what it is. Arguing that "an expiring tax cut is not a tax increase" is just dumb. If my tax bill goes up while my income stays the same, that's an increase. It's a stupid semantic argument so that dems can claim Obama hasn't raised taxes. Remember that whole "I won't raise taxes on anyone making less than 250K a year"? It's no different than "read my lips".

I understand what you're saying, but keep in mind they are phrasing it like this to preempt the inevitable GOP talking point that Obama is trying to soak the middle class, when it was the GOP guy who passed fiscally irresponsible tax cuts in the first place. You know how that shit works - Frank Luntz has already researched, defined and distributed the talking points that the Republicans will be using against Obama next year to gain seats in November. If the Democrats don't counter that they will let the Republicans define the terms of the debate, and will lose seats in November no matter how well they perform in terms of policy.

Sure it'll hurt the dems, but that doesn't make the lie any more true. They'll lose seats in November. There's almost no doubt of that, but they can still keep the presidency. If the president came out and said, "I was wrong. I'm going to have to raise your tax bill a little bit, but I promise you that we'll be in better shape for it." the voters could forgive the tax increase, provided it works. Voters don't like being lied to, and they don't like political double speak, but if the economy is on the up, and the deficit and unemployment are on the way down, the GOP can scream about tax increases all they want and Obama will still win. They need to get beyond November and start thinking more long term.

[Ugmo]

Wait, how is it a lie? Those were Bush's tax cuts and they were set to expire. Did Obama promise to extend them or something?

Edit: Okay, I see it now. Well, he could have come out during the campaign and said "I will let Bush's tax cuts expire, and so will my opponent if he wins, because they aren't sustainable tax cuts. The only difference is I'm telling you and he isn't." And then lost 49 states like Walter Mondale.

That's why I'm saying reserve your wrath for the jackass that got us into this mess in the first place!

[JakeYonkel]

Call me a welfare recipient all you want, I'm not rich. My government "hand-out" makes for a reasonable yearly salary. Combine that with my wife's salary and we live comfortably but not extravagantly by any stretch. So yeah, this shit does matter to me.

Dude, I don't know if you've talked about this before, and believe me it's not an attack, but do you work or go to school or... what do you do during the day?

Heh, it's OK. I have a Master's in Accounting which I finished about 4 years ago.

When I moved down to Florida and met my soon-to-be wife, she got pregnant and I didn't have a job yet. She was a teacher on the border of tenure. So we decided that she'd stay working since she enjoyed it anyway and I'd stay home with Junior.

So I work from home, doing small computer repairs and some web design and save us the money from daycare. I'm sure EYU will come along and call me a housewife, since that's all he's got... but that's OK.

jake...how much did you win anyway? did you take the lump sum, or monthly pay??

how much is it after taxes?

im just curious....if you dont want to post it publicly, plz PM me...or tell me its none of my biz and to fuck off!

No prob, I've talked about it before a bit.

It was a Win For Life prize which pays $1,000 a week for life. So do the math.... 52k a year, less the 25% federal withholding tax. There was no option for lump sum but believe me I get about 5 pieces of mail from Stone Street Capital and shit like that each week.

Anyway like I said it's a nice salary but I'm not exactly wiping my ass with $100 bills like a rap music video or anything.

[Ugmo]

Heh, it's OK. I have a Master's in Accounting which I finished about 4 years ago.

When I moved down to Florida and met my soon-to-be wife, she got pregnant and I didn't have a job yet. She was a teacher on the border of tenure. So we decided that she'd stay working since she enjoyed it anyway and I'd stay home with Junior.

So I work from home, doing small computer repairs and some web design and save us the money from daycare. I'm sure EYU will come along and call me a housewife, since that's all he's got... but that's OK.

Okay, that's cool. I don't have any criticism there. That's part of equal opportunity, and I'd probably do exactly the same thing in your situation.

Plus, you're doubly blessed because you get to spend a LOT of time with your kid.

[JakeYonkel]

Heh, it's OK. I have a Master's in Accounting which I finished about 4 years ago.

When I moved down to Florida and met my soon-to-be wife, she got pregnant and I didn't have a job yet. She was a teacher on the border of tenure. So we decided that she'd stay working since she enjoyed it anyway and I'd stay home with Junior.

So I work from home, doing small computer repairs and some web design and save us the money from daycare. I'm sure EYU will come along and call me a housewife, since that's all he's got... but that's OK.

Okay, that's cool. I don't have any criticism there. That's part of equal opportunity, and I'd probably do exactly the same thing in your situation.

Plus, you're doubly blessed because you get to spend a LOT of time with your kid.

Oh absolutely. I wouldn't trade it.

By the same stroke of luck, I've also had some lousy shit happen - like buying my house at the height of the housing bubble and therefore taking a HUGE hit when we decide to move (pretty soon).

At any rate I figure when I go to work we'll basically have 2 people bringing in 3 incomes, and THEN I'll be shitting in high cotton.

[Ugmo]

So long toilet paper, hello 100 dollar bills!

[bane]

Wait, how is it a lie? Those were Bush's tax cuts and they were set to expire. Did Obama promise to extend them or something?

Edit: Okay, I see it now. Well, he could have come out during the campaign and said "I will let Bush's tax cuts expire, and so will my opponent if he wins, because they aren't sustainable tax cuts. The only difference is I'm telling you and he isn't." And then lost 49 states like Walter Mondale.

That's why I'm saying reserve your wrath for the jackass that got us into this mess in the first place!

What wrath? I'm calling it what it is. You're still arguing semantics. I don't really have much of a problem with a marginal tax increase. We need one to get us out of this shit, but he needs to be honest about it. The campaign was what it was. Nobody knew the extent of this disaster at the time, so, things change, but don't try and sell spin. If he's honest NOW, it'll help him in 2012. If he tries to sell us spin, it'll hurt him. That's all I'm saying.

[WhiteHouseSubsAC]

Heh, it's OK. I have a Master's in Accounting which I finished about 4 years ago.

When I moved down to Florida and met my soon-to-be wife, she got pregnant and I didn't have a job yet. She was a teacher on the border of tenure. So we decided that she'd stay working since she enjoyed it anyway and I'd stay home with Junior.

So I work from home, doing small computer repairs and some web design and save us the money from daycare. I'm sure EYU will come along and call me a housewife, since that's all he's got... but that's OK.

Okay, that's cool. I don't have any criticism there. That's part of equal opportunity, and I'd probably do exactly the same thing in your situation.

Plus, you're doubly blessed because you get to spend a LOT of time with your kid.

Oh absolutely. I wouldn't trade it.

By the same stroke of luck, I've also had some lousy shit happen - like buying my house at the height of the housing bubble and therefore taking a HUGE hit when we decide to move (pretty soon).

At any rate I figure when I go to work we'll basically have 2 people bringing in 3 incomes, and THEN I'll be shitting in high cotton.

Jake, I have an investment opportunity I'd like to speak to you about.

[JakeYonkel]

Are you Nigerian?

[WhiteHouseSubsAC]

[quote="JakeYonkel"]Are you Nigerian?[/quote

Oh no you DIIINNT.

[VinnieKulick]

I guess at these point I would say everybody who bitches about backdoor taxes better not start bitching about Obama's deficit either, because the Bush tax cuts are demonstrably the number one factor to blame for inflated deficits.

So, to you, there's no difference between $400 billion and $2 Trillion?

People want everything at once and then bitch when the government isn't able to pay for it without making debts.

WRONG. I don't "want" anything from my government except the rights afforded to me in the constitution. Everything else is up to me to make MY life better. And, believe it or not, there are a lot of people who think just like that.

Don't you agree with that statement? Bush cut taxes to their lowest levels of all time, and the result was ballooning deficits. You can't have it both ways - you can't claim to be fiscally responsible and bitch about expiring tax cuts that are largely responsible for the current deficits.

Two things. 1, yes, you CAN be fiscally responsible AND bitch about the expiring tax cuts. The reason is, when you look at the budget projections the money that Obama plans on getting from letting the tax breaks expire do NOT go to paying on the deficit. And 2, whether the tax cuts did anybody any good or not is a better indicator of how useful they were.
I don't remember seeing anybody complaining about the checks the Obama administration sent out, or the extra in everybody's pay check from the tax magic he tried to play last year.

[Tommy]

I realize I took a while off from the sludge boards, so what I'm about to say is nothing new to anyone.


Anyway, HOLY FUCK!!!! Ugmo, you have Bush derangement syndrome worse than pretty much anyone I have ever come across. The best part is that it is VERY, very funny.

[Monty610]

This is my once in a blue moon pop-in to The War Board. I lurk...I lurk. I just had to comment on the Jake/Lotto thing and PKOS's "investment opportunity".

For real Jake, how many motherfuckers PM you asking for cash? I'm sure there's been one or two knowing the nuts around here. Pray tell!

Peace guys...

[JakeYonkel]

This is my once in a blue moon pop-in to The War Board. I lurk...I lurk. I just had to comment on the Jake/Lotto thing and PKOS's "investment opportunity".

For real Jake, how many motherfuckers PM you asking for cash? I'm sure there's been one or two knowing the nuts around here. Pray tell!

Peace guys...

LOL.. well, Iggy one time... $80... heh.

[LuciferSanchez]

Bush cut taxes to their lowest levels of all time, and the result was ballooning deficits.

Odd that while Republicans were touting tax cuts, Bush was just a rubber stamp for every Republican spending bill sent to him from the Republican led congress from 2001 to 2006. Never vetoed anything, never sent a bill back. Never heard a mention of that from many influential Republicans.

[Ugmo]

It's 8 in the morning, I just got home from an all night bender, and Vinnie's post looks like it will take some brainpower for me to digest it, so I'm going to leave that one for tomorrow.

I'll reply to Tommy's post though by quoting a different post I made yesterday. I don't know what Bush derangement syndrome is, but if you're saying we shouldn't be blaming him for the utter clusterfuck we're in right now, you need to look at the numbers. Here is the post I made yesterday about the budget:

You know how Obama is blaming Bush for the deficit? Well he's absolutely right, because it is largely Bush's fault. Read this article:

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

Take a close look at this chart, and pay special attention to how much Bush's tax cuts have inflated the deficits:



Time for the righties to drop the "fiscal conservatism" charade.

[Tommy]

It's 8 in the morning, I just got home from an all night bender, and Vinnie's post looks like it will take some brainpower for me to digest it, so I'm going to leave that one for tomorrow.

I'll reply to Tommy's post though by quoting a different post I made yesterday. I don't know what Bush derangement syndrome is, but if you're saying we shouldn't be blaming him for the utter clusterfuck we're in right now, you need to look at the numbers. Here is the post I made yesterday about the budget:

You know how Obama is blaming Bush for the deficit? Well he's absolutely right, because it is largely Bush's fault. Read this article:

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

Take a close look at this chart, and pay special attention to how much Bush's tax cuts have inflated the deficits:



Time for the righties to drop the "fiscal conservatism" charade.

Dude, I think you're a smart guy. No BS, ok?

But, and please don't take this the wrong way, you come off as an Obama fanboy.

It wasn't ok when the Bushies were blaming everyone else for the problems during his administration and it isn't ok now. Obama's been in a office a year. Potentially his job is 25% over yet all I see is Bush this and Bush that. When exactly does Obama's tenure start?

He asked for the job and now he's got.

[JakeYonkel]

KAOS was the ultimate Obama fanb0i. It was comical, really.

Ugmo hates him some Republicans and he's one of those "my party does no wrong and yours does no right" kinda guys. I have no problem with those types as long as they admit how partisan they are, which he generally does.

[Ugmo]

Dude, I think you're a smart guy. No BS, ok?

But, and please don't take this the wrong way, you come off as an Obama fanboy.

It wasn't ok when the Bushies were blaming everyone else for the problems during his administration and it isn't ok now. Obama's been in a office a year. Potentially his job is 25% over yet all I see is Bush this and Bush that. When exactly does Obama's tenure start?

He asked for the job and now he's got.

I'm not so much an Obama fanboy as that I just don't like what the Republicans are doing, but the more I see Obama, the more I like him. Watch this Q&A he did today with the Democratic caucus in the Senate. It is very informative:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/0 ... 47409.html

Don't be put off by the source, as it contains a direct link to the video.

As far as Bush blaming people for the problems of his administration - who was he supposed to blame? He took over a country in pretty good shape and he fucked things up good. Again, take a look at that chart and notice how much of the next few deficits are directly related to Bush's policies. It is madness for you guys to want to ignore that.

As far as him blaming Bush, it is necessary for Obama to get that message out, because right now the Republicans are controlling the narrative. The Democrats had a 60-40 advantage in the Senate last year and spent pretty much the whole year scrambling to break Republican fillibusters to get anything done, and right now the message the country is hearing is "Obama's deficit." Look at this very thread, attacking Obama for raising taxes on the middle class. What Jake should be asking himself was whether those massive tax cuts under Bush were actually necessary and wise, considering the fiscal trouble they've gotten us into.

In conclusion, you consider it to be "blaming Bush", but I consider it to be absolutely essential information for the public so that they know what the government is currently dealing with and how it has to be fixed. Otherwise the voters have nothing but Republican pollster-generated talking points to go on that are aimed solely at winning seats in November rather than solving the massive problems facing the country.

[Ugmo]

KAOS was the ultimate Obama fanb0i. It was comical, really.

Ugmo hates him some Republicans and he's one of those "my party does no wrong and yours does no right" kinda guys. I have no problem with those types as long as they admit how partisan they are, which he generally does.

That's it - I didn't cheerlead for Obama during the campaign. I don't cheerlead for him now. Most of what I post is anti-Republican rather than pro-Obama! But I voted for him, so he's my guy, and I stand by him in what he's trying to accomplish.