Warning given

[chickenona]

You = retardation.

Did your polls end up meaning anything - no. So then, your polls don't mean anything. 2+2 = 4 no matter what you think.

Thanks to you, Meat, and whomever else you claim "Gets it." Keep fighting those battles while the rest of us laugh.

House - passed by 5 votes.
Senate - didn't pass.
POTUS - completely abandoned it.
Issue - not even discussed anymore.

Some fucking dolt on a message board - "ITS TRUE ITS TRUE ITS TRUE!"

Game. Set. Match. Me.

What does any of that have to do with what I stated, which is - once again - that "overwhelmingly, Americans wanted a public option".

I never tried to argue that the House and Senate killed it. OBVIOUSLY THEY DID WHICH IS WHY THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DON'T SUPPORT THE CURRENT LEGISLATION.

Jesus, this is ridiculous.

Try to follow along.

In my first post, I stated (paraphrasing) "I'm not surprised most Americans hate this bill, because most of us wanted a public option and the House killed that."

You came along and tried to argue - initially, anyway - that most Americans in fact DID NOT want a public option.

Since MOMP and I have both seen all of these polls that state most Americans did indeed favor a public option, we posted a barrage of links that proved you wrong.

Instead of admitting defeat, you tried to change the subject because you had nothing.

It's as if I said, "Overwhelmingly, Americans like pie" and you're trying to say, "No, they don't, and you're stupid for saying so because the House and Senate and Obama all like bacon."

[wylde342]

You = retardation.

Did your polls end up meaning anything - no. So then, your polls don't mean anything. 2+2 = 4 no matter what you think.

Thanks to you, Meat, and whomever else you claim "Gets it." Keep fighting those battles while the rest of us laugh.

House - passed by 5 votes.
Senate - didn't pass.
POTUS - completely abandoned it.
Issue - not even discussed anymore.

Some fucking dolt on a message board - "ITS TRUE ITS TRUE ITS TRUE!"

Game. Set. Match. Me.

What does any of that have to do with what I stated, which is - once again - that "overwhelmingly, Americans wanted a public option".

I never tried to argue that the House and Senate killed it. OBVIOUSLY THEY DID WHICH IS WHY THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DON'T SUPPORT THE CURRENT LEGISLATION.

Jesus, this is ridiculous.

Try to follow along.

In my first post, I stated (paraphrasing) "I'm not surprised most Americans hate this bill, because most of us wanted a public option and the House killed that."

You came along and tried to argue - initially, anyway - that most Americans in fact DID NOT want a public option.

Since MOMP and I have both seen all of these polls that state most Americans did indeed favor a public option, we posted a barrage of links that proved you wrong.

Instead of admitting defeat, you tried to change the subject because you had nothing.

It's as if I said, "Overwhelmingly, Americans like pie" and you're trying to say, "No, they don't, and you're stupid for saying so because the House and Senate and Obama all like bacon."

You posted a bunch of polls. I showed you why polls are empirically flawed which you scoffed at. I then explained that if there WAS such support, the issue wouldn't have died on the table.

You seem to think "links" to certain data on motivated sites equate truth. Somewhere along in my 31 years of life, I figured out they they mean exactly shit.

What you're missing is there mere point that you can't trust there WAS this massive support for the public option SIMPLY because of polling. Again, polling is inaccurate.

IF YOUR POLLING was true, then there's basically no way literally 49% of the house and the majority of the Senate would have voted it down. By doing so against a majority as strong as you say, they would be voting themselves out of their seats. Why you fail to realize that they aren't going to vote against a majority as strong as you suggest is beyond me.

So long story short:

Even though you claim there was super strong support for the Public Option, there wasn't. Regardless of your polling, look what actually happened. It BARELY passed the House, didn't pass the Senate, and even the POTUS has abandoned it.

Can't make it any easier Chick. I have tried, but I can't.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

You posted a bunch of polls. I showed you why polls are empirically flawed which you scoffed at. I then explained that if there WAS such support, the issue wouldn't have died on the table.

You seem to think "links" to certain data on motivated sites equate truth. Somewhere along in my 31 years of life, I figured out they they mean exactly shit.

What you're missing is there mere point that you can't trust there WAS this massive support for the public option SIMPLY because of polling. Again, polling is inaccurate.

IF YOUR POLLING was true, then there's basically no way literally 49% of the house and the majority of the Senate would have voted it down. By doing so against a majority as strong as you say, they would be voting themselves out of their seats. Why you fail to realize that they aren't going to vote against a majority as strong as you suggest is beyond me.

So long story short:

Even though you claim there was super strong support for the Public Option, there wasn't. Regardless of your polling, look what actually happened. It BARELY passed the House, didn't pass the Senate, and even the POTUS has abandoned it.

Can't make it any easier Chick. I have tried, but I can't.

No one voted down the public option. It was left out in order to compromise with conservative cunts like you and the douchebags who represent them. There is massive support for the public option and the failure of a bill lacking the public option does not negate those facts in any way. You are the kind of idiot who will eat a whole shit sandwich rather than spit out the first bite and admit you were wrong about it not tasting like crap.

[chickenona]

..and for the record, I don't have a problem. I love it here. I think even with the ever increasing number of needy "PLEASE SAVE ME FROM MYSELF" people like you out there, this is still the best place in the world to live.

So, go get a handout! They're coming in droves these days!!!

And what the hell does this post even mean? What does asserting (correctly) that most Americans wanted a health care bill with a public option in it have to do with needing/wanting a handout? You're all over the map here, dude. Are you high?

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

I doubt it. I don't recall anyone here who's confessed to getting high on a regular basis saying anything that stupid. He/she has now lost it and is just reciting random conservative talking points due to personal failure overload.

[wylde342]

..and for the record, I don't have a problem. I love it here. I think even with the ever increasing number of needy "PLEASE SAVE ME FROM MYSELF" people like you out there, this is still the best place in the world to live.

So, go get a handout! They're coming in droves these days!!!

And what the hell does this post even mean? What does asserting (correctly) that most Americans wanted a health care bill with a public option in it have to do with needing/wanting a handout? You're all over the map here, dude. Are you high?

I guess forgetting what you've written while calling me stupid is normal. Please see the first post of yours on this very page where you say, "That's your problem." LOFL, nice try though. Again, I respond to a statement made about ME by YOU, and you can't even fucking follow along. Jesus go get a G.E.D. Again - you define stupid. Read it again if you need to. I may refer back to it again and I'd hate to lose you once more.

You even told me my "Opinion" was wrong. I called you on it, and you had no response. How's ignoring your own moronic statements working out for you?

Why don't you simply admit that there wasn't that big of a majority OR ELSE it would have gone somewhere?

People who know more than you do:

Me
Half the House of Reps - actually 49% to be exact
Majority of the Senate
POTUS
...probably anyone with an IQ above 98, but that's for another day.

Chick cries, "But there's a poll!!!! There's a poll!!!!! Huffington Post said so!!!!!!! There's a poll!!!!!!!!!!!"

For the LAST TIME: YOUR POLLS AND ASSUMPTIONS HAVE NOT BEEN SHOWN TO BE TRUE. YOU MAY THINK SO, BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN REALITY SHOWS THAT HALF OUR HOUSE, THE SENATE, AND OBAMA ALL DON'T THINK THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WANT THE PUBLIC OPTION OR THEY WOULDN'T BE PASSING IT BY RIGHT NOW. ARE YOU REALLY DENSE ENOUGH TO THINK THAT PEOPLE WOULD SIMPLY VOTE THEMSELVES OUT OF OFFICE AND IGNORE SOME SUPER MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?

Obviously....you do. Seriously, go back to arguing with your kids. Maybe there forgetting what you said, then saying "What are you talking about" when someone addresses it works. That , and you can tell them their opinion is wrong and they'll probably fall for it.

[chickenona]

I was referring to the part where you were babbling about "save me from myself" and "get a handout", genius. You know, the part you completely pulled out of your ass.

Jesus Christ. You're in your own little world here.

[wylde342]

I was referring to the part where you were babbling about "save me from myself" and "get a handout", genius. You know, the part you completely pulled out of your ass.

Jesus Christ. You're in your own little world here.

No you weren't. You were specifically referring to my post where I began with "..and I don't have a problem." That's why I pointed out when and where you asked me. Thanks again for looking ..well....like you usually do.

In reading your posts here for years, I find that you are most likely in the group of Americans who want more government control, the public option, and wealth "re" distribution. You flat out SWEATED the beacon of this movement to the point of "Go to Washington and suck his dick already." I'm absolutely LOVING what's happening to this movement, but I'm not fucking posting polls looking like a moron who doesn't understand Statistics 101.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and take it back and apologize for improperly guessing your political persuasion. I'd be amazed if I am, but you never know.

[bane]

You posted a bunch of polls. I showed you why polls are empirically flawed which you scoffed at. I then explained that if there WAS such support, the issue wouldn't have died on the table.

You seem to think "links" to certain data on motivated sites equate truth. Somewhere along in my 31 years of life, I figured out they they mean exactly shit.

What you're missing is there mere point that you can't trust there WAS this massive support for the public option SIMPLY because of polling. Again, polling is inaccurate.

IF YOUR POLLING was true, then there's basically no way literally 49% of the house and the majority of the Senate would have voted it down. By doing so against a majority as strong as you say, they would be voting themselves out of their seats. Why you fail to realize that they aren't going to vote against a majority as strong as you suggest is beyond me.

So long story short:

Even though you claim there was super strong support for the Public Option, there wasn't. Regardless of your polling, look what actually happened. It BARELY passed the House, didn't pass the Senate, and even the POTUS has abandoned it.

Can't make it any easier Chick. I have tried, but I can't.

No one voted down the public option. It was left out in order to compromise with conservative cunts like you and the douchebags who represent them. There is massive support for the public option and the failure of a bill lacking the public option does not negate those facts in any way. You are the kind of idiot who will eat a whole shit sandwich rather than spit out the first bite and admit you were wrong about it not tasting like crap.

Woah, Compromise? Come on. There was no conservative compromise. It was left out because they didn't think they had the votes in the first place. That got left out way before anybody on the left did anything more than play lip service to a compromise with the right. Don't blame that particular oops on the right. That was all the Dems doing.

[chickenona]

I was referring to the part where you were babbling about "save me from myself" and "get a handout", genius. You know, the part you completely pulled out of your ass.

Jesus Christ. You're in your own little world here.

No you weren't. You were specifically referring to my post where I began with "..and I don't have a problem." That's why I pointed out when and where you asked me. Thanks again for looking ..well....like you usually do.

In reading your posts here for years, I find that you are most likely in the group of Americans who want more government control, the public option, and wealth "re" distribution. You flat out SWEATED the beacon of this movement to the point of "Go to Washington and suck his dick already." I'm absolutely LOVING what's happening to this movement, but I'm not fucking posting polls looking like a moron who doesn't understand Statistics 101.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and take it back and apologize for improperly guessing your political persuasion. I'd be amazed if I am, but you never know.

GODDAMMIT, I might as well be trying to converse with someone who doesn't speak English at all. You have ZERO reading comprehension and can't even maintain a simple line of debate.

Hahahaha @ "this movement". There was no movement, bozo. Voters are doing a typical seesaw with the two-party system as they have since its inception. You're pulling more irrelevant crap out of your ass. Irrelevant crap that has nothing to do with the argument here that YOU STARTED BY TALKING OUT OF YOUR ASS.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Woah, Compromise? Come on. There was no conservative compromise. It was left out because they didn't think they had the votes in the first place. That got left out way before anybody on the left did anything more than play lip service to a compromise with the right. Don't blame that particular oops on the right. That was all the Dems doing.

They left it out because they knew the Repubs wouldn't even pretend to play ball 'cause it's the 'S' word (ya know, socialism). You remember all the "Socialism's bad, mmmmkay" rhetoric. As far as lip service to compromise, we all know who the party of "NO" is. And, yes, I do blame Obama... for wasting his time trying to work with a bunch of short-sighted, self interested cretins who would destroy this country simply to spite him. Even Newt Gingrich knew when to stop bitching and start serving the country's interests.

[wylde342]

I was referring to the part where you were babbling about "save me from myself" and "get a handout", genius. You know, the part you completely pulled out of your ass.

Jesus Christ. You're in your own little world here.

No you weren't. You were specifically referring to my post where I began with "..and I don't have a problem." That's why I pointed out when and where you asked me. Thanks again for looking ..well....like you usually do.

In reading your posts here for years, I find that you are most likely in the group of Americans who want more government control, the public option, and wealth "re" distribution. You flat out SWEATED the beacon of this movement to the point of "Go to Washington and suck his dick already." I'm absolutely LOVING what's happening to this movement, but I'm not fucking posting polls looking like a moron who doesn't understand Statistics 101.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and take it back and apologize for improperly guessing your political persuasion. I'd be amazed if I am, but you never know.

GODDAMMIT, I might as well be trying to converse with someone who doesn't speak English at all. You have ZERO reading comprehension and can't even maintain a simple line of debate.

Hahahaha @ "this movement". There was no movement, bozo. Voters are doing a typical seesaw with the two-party system as they have since its inception. You're pulling more irrelevant crap out of your ass. Irrelevant crap that has nothing to do with the argument here that YOU STARTED BY TALKING OUT OF YOUR ASS.

No, I made a point about your majority. It never existed. It's obvious it never did - look at what's ensued. You are unable to tie the two together.

You don't realize that polling is flawed. You cling to it and hold that sign up to feel safe and special; "Others are like me!!!" Sure there are, but it's a lot less than you think. This is exactly why your Public Option got its ass kicked right out, and not a single rep/sen/etc are saying, "Lets see if we can't get it back in the bill."

Now come in here and complain that what I've written is incoherent, again. We'll all sit back and watch and smile.

[bane]

Woah, Compromise? Come on. There was no conservative compromise. It was left out because they didn't think they had the votes in the first place. That got left out way before anybody on the left did anything more than play lip service to a compromise with the right. Don't blame that particular oops on the right. That was all the Dems doing.

They left it out because they knew the Repubs wouldn't even pretend to play ball 'cause it's the 'S' word (ya know, socialism). You remember all the "Socialism's bad, mmmmkay" rhetoric. As far as lip service to compromise, we all know who the party of "NO" is. And, yes, I do blame Obama... for wasting his time trying to work with a bunch of short-sighted, self interested cretins who would destroy this country simply to spite him. Even Newt Gingrich knew when to stop bitching and start serving the country's interests.

Nice revisionist history. Exactly one GOP member voted for that bill anyway, even without the public option, so now it's the GOP's doing that it got left out? It got dropped because the Dems didn't have the votes within their own party to pass it. Period. Blame it on the blue dogs if you want, but the big bad GOP didn't fuck that one up. That's all on Pelosi and company.

[Ugmo]

Nice revisionist history. Exactly one GOP member voted for that bill anyway, even without the public option, so now it's the GOP's doing that it got left out? It got dropped because the Dems didn't have the votes within their own party to pass it. Period. Blame it on the blue dogs if you want, but the big bad GOP didn't fuck that one up. That's all on Pelosi and company.

But when something is that popular among the American people, why should the Democrats be vilified for not being able to scrounge together 60 votes for it when it's perfectly a-okay that not a single Republican was ready to vote for it? I've pointed out the bizarre nature of that double standard often enough. The Republicans obstruct, obstruct, obstruct, don't contribute a single vote to anything, and it's "Stupid Democrats, they can't even get 60 votes!"

[lerxstcat]

Nice revisionist history. Exactly one GOP member voted for that bill anyway, even without the public option, so now it's the GOP's doing that it got left out? It got dropped because the Dems didn't have the votes within their own party to pass it. Period. Blame it on the blue dogs if you want, but the big bad GOP didn't fuck that one up. That's all on Pelosi and company.

But when something is that popular among the American people, why should the Democrats be vilified for not being able to scrounge together 60 votes for it when it's perfectly a-okay that not a single Republican was ready to vote for it? I've pointed out the bizarre nature of that double standard often enough. The Republicans obstruct, obstruct, obstruct, don't contribute a single vote to anything, and it's "Stupid Democrats, they can't even get 60 votes!"

To be fair it's both Republicans and Democrats who sank the bill. The GOP formed a united front against this, and the Dems picked it to death trying to get the highest dollar in deals for their home districts in return for a "Yes" vote. Exactly what they told the public they wouldn't do.

Both parties disgust me in this situation. I have no doubt that the majority of Americans want affordable healthcare to be available to all Americans. But the pols play their games as usual. The Dems here figured it was a shoo-in, but each individualy wanted to get his or her own bowl of gravy from the gravy train. It's fucking disgraceful!

[Ugmo]

To be fair it's both Republicans and Democrats who sank the bill. The GOP formed a united front against this, and the Dems picked it to death trying to get the highest dollar in deals for their home districts in return for a "Yes" vote. Exactly what they told the public they wouldn't do.

Both parties disgust me in this situation. I have no doubt that the majority of Americans want affordable healthcare to be available to all Americans. But the pols play their games as usual. The Dems here figured it was a shoo-in, but each individualy wanted to get his or her own bowl of gravy from the gravy train. It's fucking disgraceful!

I don't know that that was the main problem with the Democrats. There were a couple of them in the Senate from relatively conservative States who figured if they were going to vote for something that might cost them politically, they'd try and even that out by bringing home the pork. Then you had others like a Lieberman who is in bed with the insurance industry - that's a major problem. For that matter I think Obama was part of the problem too, as he tried to butter up the insurance industry in exchange for their support on health reform, but goddamn did he get played by them.

I realize this is going to inspire some more wrath, but the Democrats should have "rammed this thing through" last spring, rather than giving all the special interests and the Republican party an entire year to try and kill it through misinformation. Now it's a year later and they have to go it alone anyway. They could have spared us all that townhall buffoonery and just passed the thing a year ago, rather than allow the Republicans to keep pulling the football away from them Charlie Brown-style.

[chickenona]

No, I made a point about your majority.

You couldn't make a point if it stabbed you in the face. The House and Senate have shown nothing but disregard for public opinion since this whole thing started. That's the point. Not your idiotic insistence that their eagerness to kill the public option to serve the interests of their favorite lobbyists had a fucking thing to do with public opinion.

It never existed. It's obvious it never did - look at what's ensued. You are unable to tie the two together.

They AREN'T tied together. Lawmakers are doing what they want with this bill and serving their own interests, which - one more time - is why the bill sucks.

You don't realize that polling is flawed.

So flawed that EVERY SINGLE POLL TAKEN ON THIS WAS WRONG? Okay.

You cling to it and hold that sign up to feel safe and special; "Others are like me!!!" Sure there are, but it's a lot less than you think. This is exactly why your Public Option got its ass kicked right out, and not a single rep/sen/etc are saying, "Lets see if we can't get it back in the bill."

Now come in here and complain that what I've written is incoherent, again. We'll all sit back and watch and smile.

Who's "we all"? The only one arguing your idiotic opinion, again, is you.

I don't really understand why you're hammering so hard on one minute point anyway. I guess you're okay with this shitty bill either passing, or getting killed so the state of health care can remain the same, despite the fact that the majority of Americans need it changed. As long as the lefthand side of the aisle looks like shit, you're happy even as you're getting ass-raped.

[lerxstcat]

To be fair it's both Republicans and Democrats who sank the bill. The GOP formed a united front against this, and the Dems picked it to death trying to get the highest dollar in deals for their home districts in return for a "Yes" vote. Exactly what they told the public they wouldn't do.

Both parties disgust me in this situation. I have no doubt that the majority of Americans want affordable healthcare to be available to all Americans. But the pols play their games as usual. The Dems here figured it was a shoo-in, but each individualy wanted to get his or her own bowl of gravy from the gravy train. It's fucking disgraceful!

I don't know that that was the main problem with the Democrats. There were a couple of them in the Senate from relatively conservative States who figured if they were going to vote for something that might cost them politically, they'd try and even that out by bringing home the pork. Then you had others like a Lieberman who is in bed with the insurance industry - that's a major problem. For that matter I think Obama was part of the problem too, as he tried to butter up the insurance industry in exchange for their support on health reform, but goddamn did he get played by them.

I realize this is going to inspire some more wrath, but the Democrats should have "rammed this thing through" last spring, rather than giving all the special interests and the Republican party an entire year to try and kill it through misinformation. Now it's a year later and they have to go it alone anyway. They could have spared us all that townhall buffoonery and just passed the thing a year ago, rather than allow the Republicans to keep pulling the football away from them Charlie Brown-style.

I agree with your last point, for sure. They could have passed the bill and had something started to show when elections came around. Now they see elections only months away and might tend to lose their nerve even more so that before.

But I still see the biggest issue as that the Dems did not truly stand united because they thought they had it in hand, and stopped to pad their "victory" by getting all the cheese they could, each for their home states. When they had a simple majority in the Senate, which should be enough when it comes down to it, but still felt they had to dilute away the most important aspect of the bill - the public option - they fucked themselves and the voters who sent them there to fix this mess.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Woah, Compromise? Come on. There was no conservative compromise. It was left out because they didn't think they had the votes in the first place. That got left out way before anybody on the left did anything more than play lip service to a compromise with the right. Don't blame that particular oops on the right. That was all the Dems doing.

They left it out because they knew the Repubs wouldn't even pretend to play ball 'cause it's the 'S' word (ya know, socialism). You remember all the "Socialism's bad, mmmmkay" rhetoric. As far as lip service to compromise, we all know who the party of "NO" is. And, yes, I do blame Obama... for wasting his time trying to work with a bunch of short-sighted, self interested cretins who would destroy this country simply to spite him. Even Newt Gingrich knew when to stop bitching and start serving the country's interests.

Nice revisionist history. Exactly one GOP member voted for that bill anyway, even without the public option, so now it's the GOP's doing that it got left out? It got dropped because the Dems didn't have the votes within their own party to pass it. Period. Blame it on the blue dogs if you want, but the big bad GOP didn't fuck that one up. That's all on Pelosi and company.

Learn to read.

[EvilMadman]

"Why Did Scott Brown Win the Massachusetts Senate Campaign?"

"The Health Care Bill is Bad; Its Press is Worse

Coakley campaigned as the 60th vote in favor of the Senate's landmark health care reform bill. Scott Brown ran as the 41st vote against it. Pundits have read this race as a referendum on health care reform, and, in a way they're right. But not for the reasons they think.

Looking at Brown's campaign literature, he did not campaign against the idea of universal insurance coverage, which the bill would enshrine. How could he? Massachusetts is rightly proud of the fact that 98% of our citizens have health coverage. Instead, Brown campaigned on the idea that we should "slow down" health care reform so that we could "get it right." In a state where it's hard to find a doctor and high deductibles keep people from even trying, that doesn't sound so bad. Neither does putting the brakes on a bill that made the same mistake that Massachusetts made by failing to control costs by statute, resulting in an unnecessarily expensive program.

People hate the health care bill. Progressives hate it. Teatards hate it. And, as we've seen, many independents hate it. It's a bill that's especially hard to love in Massachusetts, a state that already has many of its strongest attributes—universal coverage and bans on denying coverage for pre-existing conditions. What's in it for us? Brown tapped into this sentiment and rode it to victory. That he's wrong doesn't make the victory less real.

Coakley failed to show Massachusetts voters that the national health care reform has something for them. Namely, massive expansions of Medicare eligibility and strict limits on annual out-of-pocket spending—a hedge against the rapacious premiums and deductibles that we're paying today. Helping out the rest of the country is well and good, but if Coakley had hammered home the simple point that health care reform will start benefiting each and every Massachusetts resident the day that it goes into effect, she might have won."

bostonist.com

Hmmm. Very interesting.

That was only one of a few reasons that the article was speculating on for Scott Brown's win in Massachusetts.


http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/de ... &tid=11380

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/de ... &tid=11380

In The Healthcare Fix, economist Laurence Kotlikoff proposes a simple, straightforward approach to the problem that would create one system that works for everyone—and secure America's fiscal and economic future. Kotlikoff's proposed Medical Security System is not the "socialized medicine" so feared by Republicans and libertarians; it's a plan for universal health insurance. Because everyone would be insured, it's also a plan for universal healthcare.

Participants—including all who are currently uninsured, all Medicaid and Medicare recipients, and all with private or employer-supplied insurance—would receive annual vouchers for health insurance, the amount of which would be based on their current medical condition. Insurance companies would willingly accept people with health problems because their vouchers would be higher. And the government could control costs by establishing the values of the vouchers so that benefit growth no longer outstrips growth of the nation's per capita income. It's a "single-payer" plan—but a single payer for insurance. The American healthcare industry would remain competitive, innovative, strong, and private.

Hmmmm.... A reasonable alternative to Obama's plan. Better than the Republican's "No To Everything" plan. It's almost enough to make one think they really do care more about blocking Democrats rather than this country's best interests.

[Crazy Levi]

I agree with your last point, for sure. They could have passed the bill and had something started to show when elections came around.

Except for the small fact that most of the health care benefits don't start until the year 2014. Which it sounds like most people aren't even aware of. Should be interesting to see what the public sentiment is if it does pass and the taxes begin immediately but their health care does not.

You are actually wrong about this.

As far as I can tell, the only tax that kicks in is a 10% tax on tanning beds. Yeah, I'm sure that will cause a revolt among the peasants.

Wheras seniors will all be getting a $250 check, everyone will get free preventetive care, and young voters will continue to enjoy their parent's insurace till they are 27.

All happens RIGHT NOW.

The Repubs are fucked dude. They are going to have a hard time convincing everyone they should give this shit back, and that it was a bad idea in the first place.

[Ugmo]

Except for the small fact that most of the health care benefits don't start until the year 2014. Which it sounds like most people aren't even aware of. Should be interesting to see what the public sentiment is if it does pass and the taxes begin immediately but their health care does not.

Tee hee!

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34836.html

The Democrats outstmarted the GOP on this one. The most popular benefits will take effect during the fall campaign, and the unpopular taxes won't take effect until much later!

[Succubyss]

No surprise there. If you try to tell uninsured Americans, "Hey, we've come up with this system where there's no public option and you'll be forced to purchase substandard crap insurance that you can't afford or face penalties. What do you guys think?" of course they're gonna hate it.

Overwhelmingly, Americans want a public option, and a public option has been the Democrats' wet dream for almost forty years. So why was it killed so suddenly?

Yeah, without question the majority of Americans dislike this version of health care, but I don't really understand why right-wingers are crowing about this as though it's good news for them - most of the stuff that sucks in the current legislation was put there by the Dems' efforts to be "bipartisan" and make all kinds of concessions to Republicans, "pro-life" Democrats, Big Insurance and Big Pharm.

Oh, and fuck Max Baucus and his "Gang of Six".

LMGDFAO @ "Overwhelmingly, Americans want a public option."

Funny, the numbers didn't say that, hence where that option is now.

Thanks for playing.

I just think that polls are complete crap and fucking worthless. ANd any sentence that says what "the numbers" want is bullshit.

Americans DO want a public option. Unfortunately, those Americans are usually too busy working two or more jobs to participate in polling operations. I've never participated in an goddamn poll and neither has anyone I know. Where are these talking numbers coming from?

Fuck the goddamn numbers and fuck the wealthy, sheltered, pious and oppressive bastards that have the nerve to think they can speak for the rest of us.

S (so there)

[Ugmo]

I just think that polls are complete crap and fucking worthless. ANd any sentence that says what "the numbers" want is bullshit.

Americans DO want a public option. Unfortunately, those Americans are usually too busy working two or more jobs to participate in polling operations. I've never participated in an goddamn poll and neither has anyone I know. Where are these talking numbers coming from?

Fuck the goddamn numbers and fuck the wealthy, sheltered, pious and oppressive bastards that have the nerve to think they can speak for the rest of us.

S (so there)

Don't direct your ire toward the polls - the polls did, in fact, consistently show broad public support for the public option!

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

They could have spared us all that townhall buffoonery and just passed the thing a year ago.

Just wait and watch what happens if they don't get this passed by Easter break.

Quoted for irony... and schadenfreude.

[JakeYonkel]

Fuck the goddamn numbers and fuck the wealthy, sheltered, pious and oppressive bastards that have the nerve to think they can speak for the rest of us.

I too dislike the Democrat party.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Fuck the goddamn numbers and fuck the wealthy, sheltered, pious and oppressive bastards that have the nerve to think they can speak for the rest of us.

I too dislike the Democrat party.

Republicans, you mean.

[Crazy Levi]

You are actually wrong about this.

As far as I can tell, the only tax that kicks in is a 10% tax on tanning beds.

Here are just a few(for starters) of the new taxes thanks to the bill Obama signed today that will tax the American people an estimated $500,000,000,000 dollars:

• A new Medicare payroll tax of 3.8% , $210 billion.
• The new tax on high-cost insurance plans, $32 billion.
• A fee on the makers and importers of brand-name drugs, $27 billion.
• An excise tax on the makers and importers of certain medical devices, $20 billion.
• An annual fee on health insurance providers, $60 billion.
• The repeal of a tax loophole that could allow paper manufacturers to get tax credits for generating alternative fuel in the paper making process, $24 billion.
• Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services, $2 billion.

The Repubs are fucked dude. They are going to have a hard time convincing everyone they should give this shit back, and that it was a bad idea in the first place.

Agreed. Entitlements almost never get rolled back. There has been only one exception to that rule that I'm aware of. It can happen, just not likely.

Can you post a link to your stats?

[EvilMadman]

Can you post a link to your stats?

Don't know exactly where "YourMomma" got that info, but it looks pretty legit.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-0 ... ncome.html

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/22/news/ec ... /index.htm

@ Tanning Tax.