Well, It Passed

[chickenona]

[SkyDog112046]

I don't think anyone is happy about this. People that didn't want healthcare reform don't like it, and the people that wanted reform didn't get what they were pushing for. The last version of the bill that was published was so full of added pork to buy the votes needed to ram it through that voters both sides didn't like. I think this thing is lose/lose. It seems like it is more about a political victory than actually doing anything. Putting themselves ahead of the people they are supposed to be representing is modus operandi for our politicians. I hope this comes back to bite them next election.

[JakeYonkel]

They did shifty shit to get it through. No surprise there, Obama's just like the rest.

However. At least this bill WILL benefit/help some Americans. And I've given up with complaining about excessive government spending, since the debt isn't going to be paid off in my lifetime, so who cares.

Now, if illegal immigration is next on the docket, that's something worth getting pissed off about if we're spending our money and doing shit to help people that aren't even US citizens. No thank you.

[JakeYonkel]

Democrats sure have loved to throw around the "history" card lately. Be a part of history! Let's make history!

It got Obama elected and probably helped this bill pass.

It would be nice if these things were to happen on their own merit without being trumped up on some ultimately meaningless selling point, though.

[Ugmo]

I don't think anyone is happy about this. People that didn't want healthcare reform don't like it, and the people that wanted reform didn't get what they were pushing for.

I think that's only half true. Sure, the teabag nutjobs are all up in arms, but I think progressives realize that this bill is a major improvement on the status quo, and at the end of the day that's what matters to them. If Dennis Kucinich can get on board, then progressive voters aren't going to beat up the Dems over this.

The last version of the bill that was published was so full of added pork to buy the votes needed to ram it through that voters both sides didn't like.

Pork? No, that was the point of reconciliation. The House took that stuff out.

I think this thing is lose/lose. It seems like it is more about a political victory than actually doing anything. Putting themselves ahead of the people they are supposed to be representing is modus operandi for our politicians. I hope this comes back to bite them next election.

That doesn't make any sense at all. If this were about political victory the Democrats wouldn't have touched health care with a ten-foot pole considering what a touchy subject it is. Yet they voted for it despite the possible negative political consequences. In other words, they voted for health care reform because they believed it was the right thing to do, and a few of them will probably lose their jobs over it.

The Republicans on the other hand voted against it every step of the way because in their words they thought it was going to be Obama's "Waterloo" (their words, not mine). So rather than working with the Democrats to come up with a compromise, they bet the farm and lost big time. It was ALL about the politics for the Republicans, and not about the policy. They aligned themselves with the Tea Party lunatics and ended up painting themselves as radicals. They played to a crowd that was screaming "Baby killers!", "Communists!" and "Niggers", and they gave up not just the moral high ground, but the political momentum. When the faces of your party are nutbars like Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin, you are in trouble.

In short, anyone who thinks the Democrats will suffer from this over the long term is delusional.

[dtmfs]

with all the talk of racial and gay slurs being hurled at dems as pelosi and co. strolled off to vote, has there been any concrete evidence out yet? in this day and age when everything is being taped You'd think there'd be some hardcore footage plastered everywhere, I've yet to see anything just "accounts".

[Ugmo]

with all the talk of racial and gay slurs being hurled at dems as pelosi and co. strolled off to vote, has there been any concrete evidence out yet? in this day and age when everything is being taped You'd think there'd be some hardcore footage plastered everywhere, I've yet to see anything just "accounts".

It was reported by reputable sources. And is it really that hard to believe, based on all the Obama-as-Hitler signs we've seen at Tea Party rallies and the ugly, ugly McCain rallies during the campaign?

I am not for a second saying Republicans or conservatives in general are racist, homophobic nutjobs - don't get me wrong. Nor am I saying a majority of the Tea Partiers are. But it's a pretty vocal minority that is making the rest of them look very bad.

[dtmfs]

It was reported by reputable sources. And is it really that hard to believe, based on all the Obama-as-Hitler signs we've seen at Tea Party rallies and the ugly, ugly McCain rallies during the campaign?

I am not for a second saying Republicans or conservatives in general are racist, homophobic nutjobs - don't get me wrong. Nor am I saying a majority of the Tea Partiers are. But it's a pretty vocal minority that is making the rest of them look very bad.

Oh i'm sure there are some idiots in the tea party crowd who are racist as hell. But yeah it is kind of hard to believe the accounts that were top stories yesterday when there hasn't been a shred of video evidence and everyone and there mother has a camera these days, If it really happened I think people should see how ugly shit really is, i'm just finding it strange that they have video of the scene they describe with none of the things being said, I heard kill the bill 6-7 times clear as bell, not one N word or any other slur, not saying it didn't happen but one would think if the dems have video of this it would already be as big as the parkinson vid.

[vlad]

Shouting "baby killer'?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34782.html

And it came from the GOP side of the aisle during the vote...and ironically turned Stupak into a sort of Democratic martyr/hero, when he had been the focus of intense Stupak hate from Dem blogs for months.

So if a member of Congress will shout that kind of crap on the floor..why do you find it hard to believe that the tea baggers wouldn't?

Here's another link from Politico, a GOP centered news source...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34747.html

[soulonfire]

I'm sure some people on here will claim that most of the info on here is false, but I'll post it anyways:
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/a-fina ... -whoppers/

I just find it amusing that this has somehow managed to piss off both sides of the abortion issue.

[Ugmo]

Oh i'm sure there are some idiots in the tea party crowd who are racist as hell. But yeah it is kind of hard to believe the accounts that were top stories yesterday when there hasn't been a shred of video evidence and everyone and there mother has a camera these days, If it really happened I think people should see how ugly shit really is, i'm just finding it strange that they have video of the scene they describe with none of the things being said, I heard kill the bill 6-7 times clear as bell, not one N word or any other slur, not saying it didn't happen but one would think if the dems have video of this it would already be as big as the parkinson vid.

It would be hard to believe if it were supposedly a whole crowd out there chanting racial epithets and calling Barney Frank a faggot, but since the reports are that it was isolated incidents (and that other tea partiers chastised those who made the remarks), I'd say it's pretty believable.

And it came from the GOP side of the aisle during the vote...and ironically turned Stupak into a sort of Democratic martyr/hero, when he had been the focus of intense Stupak hate from Dem blogs for months.

So if a member of Congress will shout that kind of crap on the floor..why do you find it hard to believe that the tea baggers wouldn't?

That one does sound far-fetched to me. If anyone in the Congress building called Stupak a baby killer it was most likely a spectator in the gallery. The GOP House members themselves don't care about that shit. They care about the politics, not the actual issues.

[vlad]

And it came from the GOP side of the aisle during the vote...and ironically turned Stupak into a sort of Democratic martyr/hero, when he had been the focus of intense Stupak hate from Dem blogs for months.

So if a member of Congress will shout that kind of crap on the floor..why do you find it hard to believe that the tea baggers wouldn't?

That one does sound far-fetched to me. If anyone in the Congress building called Stupak a baby killer it was most likely a spectator in the gallery. The GOP House members themselves don't care about that shit. They care about the politics, not the actual issues.

I think this one was factual....and not a spectator. Other Congressmen know who it was, but have said they don't see the point of naming him. It's kinda fun....I'll be curious to see who it was. My bet's on a Texas critter...

[SmokeyRamone]

great, so snow we can be taxed for not spending any money at all, it's not bad enough we're taxed on income earned, property purchased, and most of the goods and services we buy, but now the government can collect more taxes, even when we don't earn or spend anything

if the courts don't overturn this part of the bill, we could be in for some very fucked up tax increases down the road

[bane]

great, so snow we can be taxed for not spending any money at all, it's not bad enough we're taxed on income earned, property purchased, and most of the goods and services we buy, but now the government can collect more taxes, even when we don't earn or spend anything

if the courts don't overturn this part of the bill, we could be in for some very fucked up tax increases down the road

I think we've gone round and round on this one before, but the rest of the bill doesn't work without the mandate. It just doesn't. Without the mandate, we'd definitely be looking at a gigantic tax hike, or gigantic insurance rate hikes, take your pick.

[JakeYonkel]

Does Obama's "executive order" actually change anything considering the bill itself DOES have language pertaining to federally-funded abortion?

He can't simply make or change laws on his own.

Interested to see how this one pans out.

[Crazy Levi]

Does Obama's "executive order" actually change anything considering the bill itself DOES have language pertaining to federally-funded abortion?

He can't simply make or change laws on his own.

Interested to see how this one pans out.

No, the executive order really does nothing - except give Stupak what he wanted.

[JakeYonkel]

So essentially a post-it note that carried no weight whatsoever, and federally funded abortion IS in the bill. Yikes.

[vlad]

For Ugmo:

That one does sound far-fetched to me. If anyone in the Congress building called Stupak a baby killer it was most likely a spectator in the gallery. The GOP House members themselves don't care about that shit. They care about the politics, not the actual issues.

It was Randy Neugebauer, from the 19th Congressional district of Texas...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34816.html


Oh, if you read the article, he was also a co-sponser of a bill that would require presidential candidates to produce a birth certificate...can you say birther? I agree there are a lot of cold-blooded pols in the GOP, just as there are in the Democratic Party...but then, there's the folks like Neugebauer....

[Ugmo]

Damn. He looks like an angry old fart.

[SmokeyRamone]

great, so snow we can be taxed for not spending any money at all, it's not bad enough we're taxed on income earned, property purchased, and most of the goods and services we buy, but now the government can collect more taxes, even when we don't earn or spend anything

if the courts don't overturn this part of the bill, we could be in for some very fucked up tax increases down the road

I think we've gone round and round on this one before, but the rest of the bill doesn't work without the mandate. It just doesn't. Without the mandate, we'd definitely be looking at a gigantic tax hike, or gigantic insurance rate hikes, take your pick.

yes, we have gone around and around on this, and sure, the mandate was the only way for this plan to work, so knowing that it's constitutionality is questionable at best, Obama, a former constitutional scholar should have come up with another plan, rather than decide expansive government, heavy handedness, and taxation on money not spent is the way to go, no one can tell me that this is the only option out there for health care reform

[SmokeyRamone]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100322/pl_ ... are_states

CHICAGO (Reuters) – Less than 24 hours after the House of Representatives gave final approval to a sweeping overhaul of healthcare, attorneys general from several states on Monday said they will sue to block the plan on constitutional grounds.

Republican attorneys general in 11 states warned that lawsuits will be filed to stop the federal government overstepping its constitutional powers and usurping states' sovereignty.

States are concerned the burden of providing healthcare will fall on them without enough federal support.

Ten of the attorneys general plan to band together in a collective lawsuit on behalf of Alabama, Florida, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.

"To protect all Texans' constitutional rights, preserve the constitutional framework intended by our nation's founders, and defend our state from further infringement by the federal government, the State of Texas and other states will legally challenge the federal health care legislation," said Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, in a statement.

The Republican attorney generals say the reforms infringe on state powers under the Constitution's Bill of Rights.

Virginia Attorney General Kenneth Cuccinelli, who plans to file a lawsuit in federal court in Richmond, Virginia, said Congress lacks authority under its constitutional power to regulate interstate commerce to force people to buy insurance. The bill also conflicts with a state law that says Virginians cannot be required to buy insurance, he added.

"If a person decides not to buy health insurance, that person by definition is not engaging in commerce," Cuccinelli said in recorded comments. "If you are not engaging in commerce, how can the federal government regulate you?"

In addition to the pending lawsuits, bills and resolutions have been introduced in at least 36 state legislatures seeking to limit or oppose various aspects of the reform plan through laws or state constitutional amendments, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

So far, only two states, Idaho and Virginia, have enacted laws, while an Arizona constitutional amendment is seeking voter approval on the November ballot. But the actual enactment of the bill by President Barack Obama could spur more movement on the measures by state lawmakers.

As is the case on the Congressional level, partisan politics is in play on the state level, where no anti-health care reform legislation has emerged in Democrat-dominated states like Illinois and New York, according to the NCSL.

Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum, a Republican candidate running for governor, said the mandate would cost Florida at least $1.6 billion in Medicaid alone.

All states would receive extra funding to cover Medicaid costs that are expected to rise under the reform, including 100 percent federal coverage for new enrollees under the plan through 2016.

Medicaid is the healthcare program for the poor jointly administered by the states and federal government.

(Reporting by Karen Pierog, additional reporting by Michael Connor in Miami, Jonathan Stempel in New York, Joan Gralla in New York, Lisa Lambert in Washington and Michael Peltier in Tallahassee; Editing by Andrew Hay)
______________

it's gonna be an interesting ride that's for sure

[Supersonic]

Well health insurance and hospital stocks have gone up a bit, as they'll have a bigger client base in the future. Business as usual and they've already moved on to the upcoming financial bill.

[dtmfs]

It would be hard to believe if it were supposedly a whole crowd out there chanting racial epithets and calling Barney Frank a faggot, but since the reports are that it was isolated incidents (and that other tea partiers chastised those who made the remarks), I'd say it's pretty believable.

After all I've heard today I'm definitley calling Bullshit on the racist taunts and spitting stories, 100% fucking fabricated. Olbermann said the tapes will not be released, in other words until they prove the shit with these "tapes" some people are lying their asses off.

We're suppose to believe the liberal media who live for mocking the tea baggers and making the whole movement look as bad as possible have this terrible footage and refuse to release it? Fuck, Olbermann could barely hold back his glee when he was calling them all lizard brained and mouth breathing racists and this douche is holding back actual proof? no fucking way, both parties get such a hard on when they get dirt on the evil "other" guys, last week they were all over the parkinson video, this week, nothing but allegations, when you come at a group of people with accusations like that and claim you have footage, show it or STFU.

[KneelandBobDylan]

View My Video

I laughed, I cried. I pitied the bovine.

[Crazy Levi]

Everybody watching history get made today?

Isn't this exciting?!?!?!


Check it out on C-span...


http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN.aspx


The only thing is, where are all those nifty billboards that Bush
always had when signing some high profile into law? A big poster with
the stars and stripes and a "Keeping America Safe!!!" in 200 point
text while they were stripping away various rights?

The Democrats need a new press guy, that was one of my favorite parts of the Bush Administration, the ridiculous PR fanfare that went into shit like that. For every "Mission Accomplished!" banner there were dozens of slightly smaller but no less ridiculous placards used for everything.

[fatbass]

Anybody here want to pick this apart and tell me the info is incorrect?

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/0 ... care-bill/

[Succubyss]

I just don't see why anyone is so against this. It's a start - it will change and evolve into something that works.

I am committed to reading as much of it as I can, but it's really fucking difficult.

What I do know is that heath care advances and pharmaceuticals are inappropriately priced and cannot even be used by people who need them because they are very often cost prohibitive. I know that people without insurance are given over-priced emergency care because thats where they go when they have a cold. I know that poor people cost this country more in medical care when they do get sick because they can't afford insurance to provide preventative care.

And because ultimately, it comes down to what's in it for me - starting today, I can keep my son on my insurance until he's 26. Otherwise, he'd be forced to buy private insurance (which is way out of budget for anyone making minimum wage) or go without because he is not in an employment situation where he can get his own insurance. I know my daughter's employer will get a break on providing insurance to it's employees and free up some money to pay some other bills, which means that a small business (vet's office) can stay open and wait out the economy a little longer. No longer can my great-niece be denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition that was brought on by neglect in her earlier life and has since resolved.

Maybe I'm naive or just poorly informed or perhaps I'm a closet socialist in denial, but I seriously don't understand the vehement opposition to this.

S (I'm not a war board regular so don't fuckin' hurt me, ok)

[Ugmo]

Maybe I'm naive or just poorly informed or perhaps I'm a closet socialist in denial, but I seriously don't understand the vehement opposition to this.

S (I'm not a war board regular so don't fuckin' hurt me, ok)

I don't understand it either. And I think that once more people become aware of the details, the bill will become pretty popular.

(The War Board is actually remarkably civil by Sludge standards.)

[Chevyman]

free insurance for niggers already on welfare

[fatbass]

I don't understand it either. And I think that once more people become aware of the details, the bill will become pretty popular.

(The War Board is actually remarkably civil by Sludge standards.)

Details like these?

The bill ignored proven ways to cut health care costs and still leaves 24 million people uninsured, all while slightly raising total annual costs by $234 million in 2019.

The bill was written so that most WalMart employees will qualify for subsidies, and taxpayers will pick up a large portion of the cost of their coverage.

Most provisions in this bill, such as an end to the ban on pre-existing conditions for adults, do not take effect until 2014.

This bill will mandate that millions of people who are currently uninsured must purchase insurance from private companies, or the IRS will collect up to 2% of their annual income in penalties. Some will be assisted with government subsidies.