Well, It Passed

[Succubyss]

I didn't see "Walmart employees" specifically mentioned in the version of the bill I am trying to get thru.

Like any law, it is open to interpretation and every single person in the country owes it to themselves to read as much of it as they can, understand the points that will affect them and fight to make it work for thier situation.

More interesting will be to see the points that will be brought up in the suits that are calling the law unconstitutional.

S (as if the pillaging and rape the insurance and pharmaceutical companies have been doing for years is "constitutional")

[Ugmo]

The bill ignored proven ways to cut health care costs and still leaves 24 million people uninsured, all while slightly raising total annual costs by $234 million in 2019.

You think that's why the Teabaggers dislike the bill - because it doesn't cover enough people? Yeah, okay. That aspect bothers progressives, but not as much as the status quo. And the "annual costs" argument is a wash, as the bill will reduce the deficit. That should be a sticky here, as much as people completely ignore it.

The bill was written so that most WalMart employees will qualify for subsidies, and taxpayers will pick up a large portion of the cost of their coverage.

That probably does bother the Teabaggers. And I probably don't care what those lunatics think.

Most provisions in this bill, such as an end to the ban on pre-existing conditions for adults, do not take effect until 2014.

Again, that's why people don't like the bill? Please.

This bill will mandate that millions of people who are currently uninsured must purchase insurance from private companies, or the IRS will collect up to 2% of their annual income in penalties. Some will be assisted with government subsidies.

This is probably the main reason why it bothers people who are actually aware of the bill's details and aren't just opposed to it because the Republican message machine has convinced them it's "Marxism." As I said before, this doesn't apply to me because I don't live there, but insuring more people should be good for those who are already insured, as they won't have to pay higher premiums for people who get treatment without insurance.

The bill isn't perfect, and nobody said it was. The question is whether it is better than the status quo, and the answers is fuck yes.

[fatbass]

This is probably the main reason why it bothers people who are actually aware of the bill's details and aren't just opposed to it because the Republican message machine has convinced them it's "Marxism." As I said before, this doesn't apply to me because I don't live there, but insuring more people should be good for those who are already insured, as they won't have to pay higher premiums for people who get treatment without insurance.

The bill isn't perfect, and nobody said it was. The question is whether it is better than the status quo, and the answers is fuck yes.

The bill will not bring down premiums significantly, and certainly not the $2,500/year that the President promised.

Annual premiums in 2016, status quo / with bill:

Small group market, single: $7,800 / $7,800

Small group market, family: $19,300 / $19,200

Large Group market, single: $7,400 / $7,300

Large group market, family: $21,100 / $21,300

Individual market, single: $5,500 / $5,800*

Individual market, family: $13,100 / $15,200*

[Succubyss]

So you're saying that with health reform, insurance premiums will be, essentially, the same 6 years from now?

Can you post a comparable table indicating the changes in health care insurance premiums between 2004 and now? I could post my own personal insurance premiums for the last 6 years, which have shown major increases, along with the cuts and conditions, but I'd like to view your unbiased information.

S (thanks!)

[fatbass]

So you're saying that with health reform, insurance premiums will be, essentially, the same 6 years from now?

It seems so, unless you're in that last group.

As to your other question, a quick search gave me this:




BTW, the other info I quoted is from the link I posted earlier in the thread.

[JakeYonkel]

Most provisions in this bill, such as an end to the ban on pre-existing conditions for adults, do not take effect until 2014.

Is this accurate?

If so, fuck this fucking shit. The ONE thing my family would have seen a benefit from... not happening for years? LOL.

[SkyDog112046]

The problem is that the bill does nothing to address costs. And healthcare costs are part of the reason the economy is being held back right now. Small businesses are getting creamed by rising costs and some of them are having to choose between absorbing more costs, scaling back coverage, or letting workers go to cope. Some families will be paying somewhere between 20%-25% of their income towards heallthcare. Until they do something about tort laws, drug costs, and the costs associated with an aging population they aren't going to fix anything.

[Crazy Levi]

Most provisions in this bill, such as an end to the ban on pre-existing conditions for adults, do not take effect until 2014.

Is this accurate?

If so, fuck this fucking shit. The ONE thing my family would have seen a benefit from... not happening for years? LOL.

Ok Jake...fuck this fucking shit.

Back in the real world, where we can't just fuck this fucking shit and actually have to live with the reforms, it helps to actually do some research.

He's right about the pre-existing condition stuff...except that for children, the pre-existing condition limitation is immediately striken. You have kids, right? So that could help your family.

So again, millions of Americans will see a difference. And I don't see why you'd fuck that fucking shit - 2014 is only 4 years away Jake. Soon, nobody will have to deal with the pre-existing condition bullshit.


Halfway through Obama's second term.

Four years is not a long time. If the Republicans had won, it would have never happened. Pretty big gap between 4 years and never.

[JakeYonkel]

My wife's employer-sponsored insurance makes it so there are no pre-existing conditions issues with carrying the 3 of us.

However the insurance is VERY expensive for the spouse. My kid only costs like $80 per month to cover, so that's fine.

But for me, it's nearly $400 a MONTH.

So, and I've said before, I applied to Blue Cross on my own to spin off and get myself something more in the neighborhood of $200 which would obviously be half the cost AND be better coverage. I was rejected.

Therein lies my issue. I HAVE insurance, but it's expensive as fuck. Now the fact that pre-existing conditions will no longer be a way to reject applicants in 2014 doesn't help me save the $200 a month from now until then, does it? That's a lot of scratch.

Furthermore, for families like ours (and millions of others, I'm sure) where are the stipends for those who have overpriced insurance? We make too much to wade in the broke-ass motherfuckers pool, but the insurance costs are quite a squeeze on the budget. Is my wife supposed to ditch her employer insurance and get fucking fined? We can't go without it anyway, because shit happens.

This is what I'm talking about. I hate to get too into detail about my own personal experiences, but I'm just one of millions of people and I'm sure there are plenty like us, to whom this bill does NOTHING for. Thanks for looking out for "the American people." More like "the American poor."

[bane]

Jake - This will help you if you can't get insurance. You're what, 26? It'll kick in when you're 30, right about the time you'd really need it. I don't want to tell you what to do with your personal situation, but if it's that big of a hit, you could always forego coverage on yourself until then and just have your wife carry herself and your kid. The mandate doesn't kick in until then either (as far as I know anyway), so it's not as if you'd be fined for it.

Levi- What are the reasons behind the delayed implementation? I haven't researched it, and would like to assume it's budgetary as opposed to political? It would make a lot of sense politically to hold off on that mandate I think, but I'd hope there's more to it than that.

[TravisBickelsMohawk]

I now it's going to be rough at first, but has everybody forgotten the financial strangehold insurance companies have put on this country and its people? A problem this huge is going to take a long, long time to get right, and this new bill is definitely a start in the right direction.

[JakeYonkel]

Jake - This will help you if you can't get insurance. You're what, 26? It'll kick in when you're 30, right about the time you'd really need it. I don't want to tell you what to do with your personal situation, but if it's that big of a hit, you could always forego coverage on yourself until then and just have your wife carry herself and your kid. The mandate doesn't kick in until then either (as far as I know anyway), so it's not as if you'd be fined for it.

I can't go without insurance, though. I don't think that's responsible. In case God forbid something should happen I don't want to lose my house, you know?

[TravisBickelsMohawk]

Why do people only get upset when something directly affects them?

[bane]

Jake - This will help you if you can't get insurance. You're what, 26? It'll kick in when you're 30, right about the time you'd really need it. I don't want to tell you what to do with your personal situation, but if it's that big of a hit, you could always forego coverage on yourself until then and just have your wife carry herself and your kid. The mandate doesn't kick in until then either (as far as I know anyway), so it's not as if you'd be fined for it.

I can't go without insurance, though. I don't think that's responsible. In case God forbid something should happen I don't want to lose my house, you know?

I'd say that's smart, but why not look into a super high deductable, low use plan then? You're 26 dude. You want to cover yourself if you get cancer, but you don't need the 20 dollar copay and super cheap prescription plan. Just get a catastrophic illness plan and you're covered.

[JakeYonkel]

Jake - This will help you if you can't get insurance. You're what, 26? It'll kick in when you're 30, right about the time you'd really need it. I don't want to tell you what to do with your personal situation, but if it's that big of a hit, you could always forego coverage on yourself until then and just have your wife carry herself and your kid. The mandate doesn't kick in until then either (as far as I know anyway), so it's not as if you'd be fined for it.

I can't go without insurance, though. I don't think that's responsible. In case God forbid something should happen I don't want to lose my house, you know?

I'd say that's smart, but why not look into a super high deductable, low use plan then? You're 26 dude. You want to cover yourself if you get cancer, but you don't need the 20 dollar copay and super cheap prescription plan. Just get a catastrophic illness plan and you're covered.

I can't get my own insurance right now though dude! I got rejected like a month ago from Blue Cross.

I'm stuck on my wife's plan and it's expensive as hell. This is why I'm saying we're in between a rock and a hard place.

[JakeYonkel]

Why do people only get upset when something directly affects them?

Roll all you want.

Life is tough and I need to look out for myself and my family. I'm not ashamed or embarrassed to say that, either. If my taxes go up for something it'd be nice to see at least some benefit.

[Crazy Levi]

I can't get my own insurance right now though dude! I got rejected like a month ago from Blue Cross.

I'm stuck on my wife's plan and it's expensive as hell. This is why I'm saying we're in between a rock and a hard place.

Well, a mere 4 years from now you won't be! Isn't that great?

You'll be glad you voted for Obama when that happens.

Why do you refuse to admit that this is a good thing?

[JakeYonkel]

Yeah, I can hardly wait. By then I'll be formally employed with my own health insurance anyway.

[Crazy Levi]

Yeah, I can hardly wait. By then I'll be formally employed with my own health insurance anyway.

Then what's the problem?

What about all the other Jake Yonkels out there? Won't it be good for them?

[JakeYonkel]

Like I said, I'm looking out for #1 first and foremost, and this does jack shit for me (or anybody else I personally know, for that matter).

The pre-existing condition thing IS so important though that it should take effect ASAP which I find hard to believe is going to be 4 years from now. Obama will be out of office by then and who knows what the new Republican-controlled Congress will do with Obamacare. Unfortunately once the government gives you something it's nearly impossible to take it back. Look what's happening in New Jersey - the new governor is slashing the budget like crazy and people are going nuts.

I don't see why something like allowing free-loading 27 year olds to remain on mom and dad's plan is so important and easy to implement starting tomorrow (in effect) yet things like no exlusions based on pre-existing conditions as well as the inability for the insurance companies to cap your benefits don't take effect for years?

How is this going to affect the cost of these private insurance companies, anyway? Based on the changes this plan are going to put into effect, I don't see how they won't be able to jack rates up skyhigh.

I don't believe in continually GIVING things to people or expanding the government further than it already is, either. But those are not what we're discussing right now.

[KneelandBobDylan]

Anyone familiar with Redstate Update?


Good stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR5_WL8z0BA