Metal Sludge Gossip Board

I used to be for health care reform, and they had me up till about November or December. Anyway, it is frustrating to see that the Democrats did NOT listen to what the American people wanted, and they stepped all over the Constitution to shove their bill through. I still want health reform, but I do not believe compromising our values is a good way to do it. On the flip side, the Republicans were just being stubborn the whole time. Did not offer a good alternative proposal, and didn't give the bill a chance to be bi-partisan. The two super parties are killing out country.

slzrocker wrote:... and they stepped all over the Constitution to shove their bill through.

How so? I expect you can explain this if it's true.

slzrocker wrote:I used to be for health care reform, and they had me up till about November or December. Anyway, it is frustrating to see that the Democrats did NOT listen to what the American people wanted, and they stepped all over the Constitution to shove their bill through. I still want health reform, but I do not believe compromising our values is a good way to do it. On the flip side, the Republicans were just being stubborn the whole time. Did not offer a good alternative proposal, and didn't give the bill a chance to be bi-partisan. The two super parties are killing out country.

The absolute worst thing on the war board are the "independents."

Cause they are full of shit. Tell me mr. independent, who was the last Dem you voted for?

Ugmo wrote:

slzrocker wrote:... and they stepped all over the Constitution to shove their bill through.

How so? I expect you can explain this if it's true.

States that the senate has to have 61 votes to pass a bill. The senate decided they wanted to change that to 51 because they wouldnt have the votes otherwise. But lets forget about that.

How about the fact that making it mandatory for everyone to have health care or pay a fine is unconstitutional. Forcing the health care agenda on everyone goes against the 10th amendment which states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." There is nothing in the Constitution about health care. This would mean it is either a power that goes to the states, or the individuals. Either the state can mandate it, or I can choose, but the US Government can not force me to get it.

Crazy Levi wrote:

slzrocker wrote:I used to be for health care reform, and they had me up till about November or December. Anyway, it is frustrating to see that the Democrats did NOT listen to what the American people wanted, and they stepped all over the Constitution to shove their bill through. I still want health reform, but I do not believe compromising our values is a good way to do it. On the flip side, the Republicans were just being stubborn the whole time. Did not offer a good alternative proposal, and didn't give the bill a chance to be bi-partisan. The two super parties are killing out country.

The absolute worst thing on the war board are the "independents."

Cause they are full of shit. Tell me mr. independent, who was the last Dem you voted for?

Considering he just changed "Southern Democrat" in his sig to "Independent", I'd say Obama is a good guess. In all fairness...

Crazy Levi wrote:

slzrocker wrote:I used to be for health care reform, and they had me up till about November or December. Anyway, it is frustrating to see that the Democrats did NOT listen to what the American people wanted, and they stepped all over the Constitution to shove their bill through. I still want health reform, but I do not believe compromising our values is a good way to do it. On the flip side, the Republicans were just being stubborn the whole time. Did not offer a good alternative proposal, and didn't give the bill a chance to be bi-partisan. The two super parties are killing out country.

The absolute worst thing on the war board are the "independents."

Cause they are full of shit. Tell me mr. independent, who was the last Dem you voted for?

Obama, I was a Democrat, up until last year. I had enough, and realized that both parties were completely full of it. I tried my hardest to defend democrats to the republicans, being in a predominately republican area. And I have nothing to show for it but more of the same.

slzrocker wrote:States that the senate has to have 61 votes to pass a bill. The senate decided they wanted to change that to 51 because they wouldnt have the votes otherwise. But lets forget about that.

That's not unconstitutional. It's Senate procedure. The Republicans did it all the fucking time when they were the majority party. Don't let their constant bleating about it now confuse you dude.

slzrocker wrote:How about the fact that making it mandatory for everyone to have health care or pay a fine is unconstitutional. Forcing the health care agenda on everyone goes against the 10th amendment which states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." There is nothing in the Constitution about health care. This would mean it is either a power that goes to the states, or the individuals. Either the state can mandate it, or I can choose, but the US Government can not force me to get it.

I highly doubt the Supreme Court will see this as unconstitutional, but we'll see. You could look at it as the government giving you a service and then taxing you for it. That sure ain't unconstitutional. Sure health care isn't expressly mentioned in the Constitution. Nor are a lot of things.

I look at it as the Republicans being sore losers and refusing to admit they bet the farm through their obstructionism and lost it all.

slzrocker wrote:Obama, I was a Democrat, up until last year. I had enough, and realized that both parties were completely full of it. I tried my hardest to defend democrats to the republicans, being in a predominately republican area. And I have nothing to show for it but more of the same.

What caused you to leave the party last year? Please tell me it was the Democrats' utter lack of balls until last night, because otherwise they haven't gotten enough shit done that they can be blamed for.

"I'm an independent"="I'm ashamed to admit I'm a Republican"

slzrocker, explain to us how the Constitution has been violated?

slzrocker wrote:
States that the senate has to have 61 votes to pass a bill. The senate decided they wanted to change that to 51 because they wouldnt have the votes otherwise. But lets forget about that.

How about the fact that making it mandatory for everyone to have health care or pay a fine is unconstitutional. Forcing the health care agenda on everyone goes against the 10th amendment which states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." There is nothing in the Constitution about health care. This would mean it is either a power that goes to the states, or the individuals. Either the state can mandate it, or I can choose, but the US Government can not force me to get it.

The vote was in the House, assclown. Anyways the Senate only needs 51 votes to pass a bill but needs 61 to override the President's veto. Regardless, since the Senate and the House are empowered by the Constitution to set their own rules and procedures, they have the right to change the rules. As far as health care, there's nothing prohibiting it, either. You have no clue what is going on and heard some crap you didn't really understand and in a cloud of your own ignorance decided to parrot it without a clue as to it's meaning.

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote:"I'm an independent"="I'm ashamed to admit I'm a Republican"

slzrocker, explain to us how the Constitution has been violated?

slzrocker wrote:
States that the senate has to have 61 votes to pass a bill. The senate decided they wanted to change that to 51 because they wouldnt have the votes otherwise. But lets forget about that.

How about the fact that making it mandatory for everyone to have health care or pay a fine is unconstitutional. Forcing the health care agenda on everyone goes against the 10th amendment which states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." There is nothing in the Constitution about health care. This would mean it is either a power that goes to the states, or the individuals. Either the state can mandate it, or I can choose, but the US Government can not force me to get it.

The vote was in the House, assclown. Anyways the Senate only needs 51 votes to pass a bill but needs 61 to override the President's veto. Regardless, since the Senate and the House are empowered by the Constitution to set their own rules and procedures, they have the right to change the rules. As far as health care, there's nothing prohibiting it, either. You have no clue what is going on and heard some crap you didn't really understand and in a cloud of your own ignorance decided to parrot it without a clue as to it's meaning.

What is prohibiting it is that it is not a power given to the Federal Government.

Ugmo wrote:

slzrocker wrote:States that the senate has to have 61 votes to pass a bill. The senate decided they wanted to change that to 51 because they wouldnt have the votes otherwise. But lets forget about that.

That's not unconstitutional. It's Senate procedure. The Republicans did it all the fucking time when they were the majority party. Don't let their constant bleating about it now confuse you dude.

slzrocker wrote:How about the fact that making it mandatory for everyone to have health care or pay a fine is unconstitutional. Forcing the health care agenda on everyone goes against the 10th amendment which states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." There is nothing in the Constitution about health care. This would mean it is either a power that goes to the states, or the individuals. Either the state can mandate it, or I can choose, but the US Government can not force me to get it.

I highly doubt the Supreme Court will see this as unconstitutional, but we'll see. You could look at it as the government giving you a service and then taxing you for it. That sure ain't unconstitutional. Sure health care isn't expressly mentioned in the Constitution. Nor are a lot of things.

I look at it as the Republicans being sore losers and refusing to admit they bet the farm through their obstructionism and lost it all.

Just because the republicans did it, does not make it right. Both parties are into their own agenda, and do exactly what they blasted the other party for before. Like republicans blasting obama for being a war monger when they were all for it with Bush, and your example you just stated with the democrats hypocrisy. Also there are other things that go against the 10th amendment that needs to be repealed.

Ugmo wrote:

slzrocker wrote:Obama, I was a Democrat, up until last year. I had enough, and realized that both parties were completely full of it. I tried my hardest to defend democrats to the republicans, being in a predominately republican area. And I have nothing to show for it but more of the same.

What caused you to leave the party last year? Please tell me it was the Democrats' utter lack of balls until last night, because otherwise they haven't gotten enough shit done that they can be blamed for.

He lioves in a conservative Southern state and the arguments of friends and family have likely gotten to him over time. The fact that many people of both parties are basically good people confuses things.

I live in Mississippi, another conservative southern state. Last week a friend of mine was lamenting on Facebook that she has fought cancer twice in the last 5 years, and now her insurance company dropped her and she's uninsurable because of her preexisting condition.

This morning she was posting, distraught about the bill passing, because her friends have convinced her this is the end of the world. I read a post by KABD here this morning, so i tld her, "Guess what? within 6 months of Obama signing this bill, you can no longer be denied insurance due to your preexisting condition! Isn't that AWESOME? You were just worried about that and now it's solved for you!"

She seemed to be pretty stunned by that revelation. I hope it will wash the taste of the GOP Kool-Aid out of her mouth. But the whole dynamic ilustrates how people's environment can sometimes compel them to think and act against their own self-interest. It also illustrates to me that a lot of people ARE waking up, seeing their self-interest, and seeing the GOP trying to kill something that benefits almost everybody, for their fatcat benefactors.

Ugmo wrote:

slzrocker wrote:Obama, I was a Democrat, up until last year. I had enough, and realized that both parties were completely full of it. I tried my hardest to defend democrats to the republicans, being in a predominately republican area. And I have nothing to show for it but more of the same.

What caused you to leave the party last year? Please tell me it was the Democrats' utter lack of balls until last night, because otherwise they haven't gotten enough shit done that they can be blamed for.

Yes the lack of balls, the lack of transparency that was promised by Obama, recent taxes by Bev Perdue, escalation of the war in Afghanistan, the fact that Gitmo is still open though it was supposed to be closed, they have the arrogance that I hated about Republicans when they controlled congress and was president, less bi-partisanship than promised, and the push for a carbon tax, and the idea that big government is the solution to everything. They need more than pro-choice, marijuana legalization, and great public speakers to keep me. by the way me being Independent allows me to find politicians who favor all of the above also, without big government.

lerxstcat wrote:

Ugmo wrote:

slzrocker wrote:Obama, I was a Democrat, up until last year. I had enough, and realized that both parties were completely full of it. I tried my hardest to defend democrats to the republicans, being in a predominately republican area. And I have nothing to show for it but more of the same.

What caused you to leave the party last year? Please tell me it was the Democrats' utter lack of balls until last night, because otherwise they haven't gotten enough shit done that they can be blamed for.

He lioves in a conservative Southern state and the arguments of friends and family have likely gotten to him over time. The fact that many people of both parties are basically good people confuses things.

I live in Mississippi, another conservative southern state. Last week a friend of mine was lamenting on Facebook that she has fought cancer twice in the last 5 years, and now her insurance company dropped her and she's uninsurable because of her preexisting condition.

This morning she was posting, distraught about the bill passing, because her friends have convinced her this is the end of the world. I read a post by KABD here this morning, so i tld her, "Guess what? within 6 months of Obama signing this bill, you can no longer be denied insurance due to your preexisting condition! Isn't that AWESOME? You were just worried about that and now it's solved for you!"

She seemed to be pretty stunned by that revelation. I hope it will wash the taste of the GOP Kool-Aid out of her mouth. But the whole dynamic ilustrates how people's environment can sometimes compel them to think and act against their own self-interest. It also illustrates to me that a lot of people ARE waking up, seeing their self-interest, and seeing the GOP trying to kill something that benefits almost everybody, for their fatcat benefactors.

I do agree with some points of the bill, but not the whole thing. I love that people cant be denied because of pre-existing conditions. That is unethical to deny someone based on pre-existing conditions. But I think we should not be forced to take insurance or pay a fine. I am extremely healthy, and i do not want to be forced to pay health insurance until my late 20s into my 30s.

slzrocker wrote:

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote:"I'm an independent"="I'm ashamed to admit I'm a Republican"

slzrocker, explain to us how the Constitution has been violated?

slzrocker wrote:
States that the senate has to have 61 votes to pass a bill. The senate decided they wanted to change that to 51 because they wouldnt have the votes otherwise. But lets forget about that.

How about the fact that making it mandatory for everyone to have health care or pay a fine is unconstitutional. Forcing the health care agenda on everyone goes against the 10th amendment which states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." There is nothing in the Constitution about health care. This would mean it is either a power that goes to the states, or the individuals. Either the state can mandate it, or I can choose, but the US Government can not force me to get it.

The vote was in the House, assclown. Anyways the Senate only needs 51 votes to pass a bill but needs 61 to override the President's veto. Regardless, since the Senate and the House are empowered by the Constitution to set their own rules and procedures, they have the right to change the rules. As far as health care, there's nothing prohibiting it, either. You have no clue what is going on and heard some crap you didn't really understand and in a cloud of your own ignorance decided to parrot it without a clue as to it's meaning.

What is prohibiting it is that it is not a power given to the Federal Government.

How do you know? You don't even know it was the House that voted yesterday and not the Senate. It's been all over the news all day long. How could you not know? Do you live in a cave? You don't even know how the Senate works, something jr. high school students learn. Now, in spite of your demonstrated ignorance, you're playing Constitutional scholar.

slzrocker wrote:I do agree with some points of the bill, but not the whole thing. I love that people cant be denied because of pre-existing conditions. That is unethical to deny someone based on pre-existing conditions. But I think we should not be forced to take insurance or pay a fine. I am extremely healthy, and i do not want to be forced to pay health insurance until my late 20s into my 30s.

If you do get sick, do you swear to stay home and die instead of going to the hospital and sticking us with the bill because you're a cheapass?

slzrocker wrote:Just because the republicans did it, does not make it right. Both parties are into their own agenda, and do exactly what they blasted the other party for before. Like republicans blasting obama for being a war monger when they were all for it with Bush, and your example you just stated with the democrats hypocrisy. Also there are other things that go against the 10th amendment that needs to be repealed.

I will give you that both parties' primary concern is political power, and it's sickening. The difference between them is that once in a while, the Democrats will actually set that aside and do something that isn't politically expedient because they think it will will benefit their constituents. A few Democrats fell on their swords yesterday for the good of 30 million uninsured and countless Americans who constantly live with the concern that they could be dropped from their coverage if they get sick.

I think you should truly take a look at this legislation and weigh the positive and negative aspects, rather than getting caught up in GOP propaganda about its "constitutionality." Remember, these are the same people that brought us "death panels" and "Marxism." The sky isn't falling and America won't be any worse off once an extra 30 million people get health insurance. As L-Cat says, there are a lot of aspects in there that will benefit a lot of people. Go to a reputable source and read through the details of the bill, dude, rather than believing propaganda disseminated by people who were trying to kill the bill for their own self-serving reasons.

Yes the lack of balls, the lack of transparency that was promised by Obama, recent taxes by Bev Perdue, escalation of the war in Afghanistan, the fact that Gitmo is still open though it was supposed to be closed, they have the arrogance that I hated about Republicans when they controlled congress and was president, less bi-partisanship than promised, and the push for a carbon tax, and the idea that big government is the solution to everything. They need more than pro-choice, marijuana legalization, and great public speakers to keep me. by the way me being Independent allows me to find politicians who favor all of the above also, without big government.

- Obama has provided a lot of transparency, but he can't change the system on his own. He's president, not dictator.

- Don't know what Bev Perdue is. I'll have to look that up.

- Obama said during the campaign that he would ramp up the effort in Afghanistan. Maybe you just weren't paying attention.

- Yeah, Gitmo is a shitty deal. It has to be said, though, look at the opposition he has faced from Republicans just by suggesting the detainees should be held in U.S. prisons.

- The arrogance part I just to not get, sorry. The Democrats had been meek as lambs from the election up until a couple of weeks ago, when they finally grew a pair.

- It takes two to tango. Obama has bent over backwards to be bipartisan, and the Republicans have pulled the football away from him every single time, Charlie Brown-style. If you're blaming Obama for the lack of bipartisanship, you're blaming the wrong guy. Senate Minority Leader Jim Demint said as long ago as last summer that the Republicans were going to make health care Obama's "Waterloo" - in other words they were never going to work with him. They were out to destroy him. Pretty difficult to be bipartisan when the other side isn't interested in bipartisanship.

- Not a fan of the carbon tax? Honestly, it doesn't sound like you should have been voting for the Dems in the first place, because you don't seem to agree with anything that was in their platform.

- Where do you get "big government is the answer to everything"? This health care bill doesn't even have a government option, even though that's the one thing guaranteed to reduce premiums. I think you are getting fooled by the Republican propaganda.

slzrocker, explain to us how the Constitution has been violated?

slzrocker wrote:
States that the senate has to have 61 votes to pass a bill. The senate decided they wanted to change that to 51 because they wouldnt have the votes otherwise. But lets forget about that.

How about the fact that making it mandatory for everyone to have health care or pay a fine is unconstitutional. Forcing the health care agenda on everyone goes against the 10th amendment which states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." There is nothing in the Constitution about health care. This would mean it is either a power that goes to the states, or the individuals. Either the state can mandate it, or I can choose, but the US Government can not force me to get it.

The vote was in the House, assclown. Anyways the Senate only needs 51 votes to pass a bill but needs 61 to override the President's veto. Regardless, since the Senate and the House are empowered by the Constitution to set their own rules and procedures, they have the right to change the rules. As far as health care, there's nothing prohibiting it, either. You have no clue what is going on and heard some crap you didn't really understand and in a cloud of your own ignorance decided to parrot it without a clue as to it's meaning.[/quote]

What is prohibiting it is that it is not a power given to the Federal Government.[/quote]
How do you know? You don't even know it was the House that voted yesterday and not the Senate. It's been all over the news all day long. How could you not know? Do you live in a cave? You don't even know how the Senate works, something jr. high school students learn. Now, in spite of your demonstrated ignorance, you're playing Constitutional scholar.

slzrocker wrote:I do agree with some points of the bill, but not the whole thing. I love that people cant be denied because of pre-existing conditions. That is unethical to deny someone based on pre-existing conditions. But I think we should not be forced to take insurance or pay a fine. I am extremely healthy, and i do not want to be forced to pay health insurance until my late 20s into my 30s.

If you do get sick, do you swear to stay home and die instead of going to the hospital and sticking us with the bill because you're a cheapass?[/quote]

I did know that it was the house that voted yesterday. in fact i watched it. I was referring to what the senate was trying, and I admit i was wrong about that. But to give a quote from Thomas Jefferson “Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force”.

Also I hope to be able to save up enough money in a separate bank account like my BA professor has taught us to do, and be able to afford any medical bills i may need. I would also purchase health insurance if i started a family.

slzrocker wrote:Also I hope to be able to save up enough money in a separate bank account like my BA professor has taught us to do, and be able to afford any medical bills i may need. I would also purchase health insurance if i started a family.

Are you serious?!! If you're willing to save up money, why wouldn't you be willing to spend money on health insurance? You could get wiped out financially if you were to become sick with something serious. That's almost like saying you hope to save up enough money in a separate bank account for the eventuality that you get involved in a car accident and someone sues you for a couple of million bucks.

Ugmo wrote:

slzrocker wrote:Just because the republicans did it, does not make it right. Both parties are into their own agenda, and do exactly what they blasted the other party for before. Like republicans blasting obama for being a war monger when they were all for it with Bush, and your example you just stated with the democrats hypocrisy. Also there are other things that go against the 10th amendment that needs to be repealed.

I will give you that both parties' primary concern is political power, and it's sickening. The difference between them is that once in a while, the Democrats will actually set that aside and do something that isn't politically expedient because they think it will will benefit their constituents. A few Democrats fell on their swords yesterday for the good of 30 million uninsured and countless Americans who constantly live with the concern that they could be dropped from their coverage if they get sick.

I think you should truly take a look at this legislation and weigh the positive and negative aspects, rather than getting caught up in GOP propaganda about its "constitutionality." Remember, these are the same people that brought us "death panels" and "Marxism." The sky isn't falling and America won't be any worse off once an extra 30 million people get health insurance. As L-Cat says, there are a lot of aspects in there that will benefit a lot of people. Go to a reputable source and read through the details of the bill, dude, rather than believing propaganda disseminated by people who were trying to kill the bill for their own self-serving reasons.

Yes the lack of balls, the lack of transparency that was promised by Obama, recent taxes by Bev Perdue, escalation of the war in Afghanistan, the fact that Gitmo is still open though it was supposed to be closed, they have the arrogance that I hated about Republicans when they controlled congress and was president, less bi-partisanship than promised, and the push for a carbon tax, and the idea that big government is the solution to everything. They need more than pro-choice, marijuana legalization, and great public speakers to keep me. by the way me being Independent allows me to find politicians who favor all of the above also, without big government.

- Obama has provided a lot of transparency, but he can't change the system on his own. He's president, not dictator.

- Don't know what Bev Perdue is. I'll have to look that up.

- Obama said during the campaign that he would ramp up the effort in Afghanistan. Maybe you just weren't paying attention.

- Yeah, Gitmo is a shitty deal. It has to be said, though, look at the opposition he has faced from Republicans just by suggesting the detainees should be held in U.S. prisons.

- The arrogance part I just to not get, sorry. The Democrats had been meek as lambs from the election up until a couple of weeks ago, when they finally grew a pair.

- It takes two to tango. Obama has bent over backwards to be bipartisan, and the Republicans have pulled the football away from him every single time, Charlie Brown-style. If you're blaming Obama for the lack of bipartisanship, you're blaming the wrong guy. Senate Minority Leader Jim Demint said as long ago as last summer that the Republicans were going to make health care Obama's "Waterloo" - in other words they were never going to work with him. They were out to destroy him. Pretty difficult to be bipartisan when the other side isn't interested in bipartisanship.

- Not a fan of the carbon tax? Honestly, it doesn't sound like you should have been voting for the Dems in the first place, because you don't seem to agree with anything that was in their platform.

- Where do you get "big government is the answer to everything"? This health care bill doesn't even have a government option, even though that's the one thing guaranteed to reduce premiums. I think you are getting fooled by the Republican propaganda.

I dont get caught up in the GOP agenda. I refuse to watch Fixed News based off of their purely partisan agendas. I just think that if we continue to allow the government to encroach upon the constitution, then eventually it will be completely disregarded. Also let me add to the list of the things I thought Democrats would get rid of that Republicans put into force. The patriot act. I thought finally with a pure Democrat congress and president, it would not get renewed, but they renewed it. Also i think Ben Bernanke should have not been put back in as the CEO of the Federal Reserve.

Ugmo wrote:

slzrocker wrote:Also I hope to be able to save up enough money in a separate bank account like my BA professor has taught us to do, and be able to afford any medical bills i may need. I would also purchase health insurance if i started a family.

Are you serious?!! If you're willing to save up money, why wouldn't you be willing to spend money on health insurance? You could get wiped out financially if you were to become sick with something serious. That's almost like saying you hope to save up enough money in a separate bank account for the eventuality that you get involved in a car accident and someone sues you for a couple of million bucks.

Its a gamble, but a choice i should be able to make. If nothing happened, and I did purchase insurance later on, that is quite a bit of money I will have set aside for something else.

Meatpuppets makes a good point though. I know this doesn't apply to me since I don't even live in the U.S., but whenever someone gambles that he won't need insurance but gets sick after all, it's everyone else that pays for it through higher premiums. That ain't fair.

Plus it doesn't even sound like you've started saving up yet, so I'm not sure that's such a sure-fire strategy!

slzrocker wrote:I did know that it was the house that voted yesterday. in fact i watched it. I was referring to what the senate was trying, and I admit i was wrong about that. But to give a quote from Thomas Jefferson “Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force”.
Also I hope to be able to save up enough money in a separate bank account like my BA professor has taught us to do, and be able to afford any medical bills i may need. I would also purchase health insurance if i started a family.

I don't believe you knew it was the House because I don't believe you know enough about either half of Congress to tell the difference. What part of the Constitution did Jefferson quote? Again, you heard this somewhere and have no clue what the Constitution says on the subject.

You didn't answer:

If you do get sick, do you swear to stay home and die instead of going to the hospital and sticking us with the bill because you're a cheapass?

The absolute worst thing on the war board are the "independents."

Cause they are full of shit. Tell me mr. independent, who was the last Dem you voted for?

I couldn't disagree with the first statement more, in the bigger picture of course not just on these boards.

I've never and will never lable myself either a republican or a democrat because from where I've been standing most of my life they've both done nothing but be "full of shit" themselves, and some of the followers are so blind they can't even see it. But hey that's just politics, when a dem fucks around on his wife the right swoop in like sharks and denounce it until a week later when one of theirs gets busted, then the other side attacks. the left burned bodies of soldiers and bush in effigy, now the right wings doing it to obama and inciting violence. both parties are fucking liars and there are groups of idiots on both sides that play dangerous games that stir up the loony people on their side. right now it's the idiot right wingers who are twittering about putting a bullet in the presidents head, a few years ago there were leftists calling for bushes murder, it's the same shit over and over again, that's why I can't allign myself to one or the other, it's like choosing who to room with, jefferey dahmer or john wayne gacy.

slzrocker wrote: I love that people cant be denied because of pre-existing conditions. That is unethical to deny someone based on pre-existing conditions. But I think we should not be forced to take insurance or pay a fine. I am extremely healthy, and i do not want to be forced to pay health insurance until my late 20s into my 30s.

That seems to be everyone's mantra. "I want the insurance companies to be forced to do what I think is ethical, but I don't want to have to pay for it". You can't have one without the other. If you force insurance companies to cover people they deem high risk (due to pre existing conditions), and ultimately, lose money due to pay outs on those cases, you force everyone else's premiums to go through the roof to offset the losses. The alternative is to offset those losses with new policies by young and healthy people (like you) which enables insurance to keep premiums within reach for everybody. See how that works? Nothing is free. We can do this several ways: we could do what this bill proposes, or we could scrap the whole thing and put us all into a pool that the government pays for and finances through taxes (like say, Canada) with the resulting questions about quality of care and the government all up in your personal business, we could force insurance companies to do what we all think they should be doing anyway and just bite the bullet and pay the resulting higher premiums, or we can just keep the status quo. There aren't a whole lot of alternatives. The reality is that the majority of us have insurance anyway, and there probably isn't going to be a whole lot of change in those people's lives through this bill while still covering the poor AND forcing insurance companies to operate in what we'd consider a more ethical manor. That's the path of least resistance, so that's the way they ended up going. Once you get beyond the propaganda, I think it's fairly obvious that this bill is probably the best we're going to get.

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote:

slzrocker wrote:I did know that it was the house that voted yesterday. in fact i watched it. I was referring to what the senate was trying, and I admit i was wrong about that. But to give a quote from Thomas Jefferson “Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force”.
Also I hope to be able to save up enough money in a separate bank account like my BA professor has taught us to do, and be able to afford any medical bills i may need. I would also purchase health insurance if i started a family.

I don't believe you knew it was the House because I don't believe you know enough about either half of Congress to tell the difference. What part of the Constitution did Jefferson quote? Again, you heard this somewhere and have no clue what the Constitution says on the subject.

You didn't answer:

If you do get sick, do you swear to stay home and die instead of going to the hospital and sticking us with the bill because you're a cheapass?

No cause it looks like im going to be paying for insurance anyway, whether i like it or not.

But i would like to state on this board something most do not do. After watching more news as more developments come out, I admit I was wrong. Still think that the states should individually decide whether they want to adopt the bill or not, but overall it is a good health plan. As long as the premiums dont skyrocket the way they have in the past. If they skyrocket I will have to change my opinion on it again. Only time will tell, but so far the sky hasnt fallen.

While I think the bill is completely legal and the states will have a hell of a time getting it repealed due to the Court's interpretation of the constitution's Commerce Clause over the last century and how it applies to cases like this, I don't completely like it. I don't mind being mandated to buy insurance as long as it will be affordable, but, from what I understand, there really are not any cost control measures on this bill. For that reason, I wish there would have been a 'Public Option" trigger or something to keep costs within reason. Hopefully I'm wrong though.