Metal Sludge Gossip Board

If any of you teach, or know teachers, or have an ounce of common sense... you know this is scary.

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Teacher Merit Pay Bill Passes Fl. Senate Vote

TALLAHASSEE (CBS4) ― The Florida Senate has passed a controversial bill that would penalize schools that fail to adopt a merit pay plan for teachers. The bill (SB 6) passed 21-17 on Wednesday. It goes to the House next.

Senate Bill 6, proposed by the new chair of the Florida Republican Party state senator John Thrasher, would rely heavily on standardized test results. If the bill was enacted, districts would lose part of their state funding without merit pay plan. The districts would have to make up for the money by increasing local property taxes.

The plan could radically change the way teachers in Florida are paid. The better the students perform, the better the raise for the teacher. However, opponents say poor schools where students are already struggling could force good teachers out of the public schools.

"I really believe the legislation is dynamic," said Marie McDemmond, Interim Dean of Education at Florida International University. She believes legislators should spend more time looking at this bill before making such a critical decision. "You know when we look at a student in a classroom, or 40 students in a classroom, we look at a quite diverse population," she told CBS4's Gio Benitez.

John Thrasher called the bill, "the hammer." He claims the measure is needed to bust the union's resistance to merit pay. The Florida Education Association called it a "nuclear weapon."

The teachers counter Thrasher's argument saying they will be forced to teach to the test and how to take a test, rather than a broad based curriculum.

In a Facebook page created by teachers called, "Florida Teachers Against Pay-For-Performance Salary/Pay Scales," teachers on the site said they were "scared" about the possibility of Senate Bill 6 being passed. The page has over 7,000 fans.

The Florida Senate also passed a bill that would expand a private school voucher program. The voucher bill (SB 2126) cleared the Senate on a 27-11 vote. It goes to the House next.

They are among a series of education bills the Senate is taking up this week. Another contentious measure would loosen class size requirements (SJR 2).

that is why I have my kids in private school,cause public school teachers suck at teaching

I've been on both sides of the issue, obviously as a student of public schools (in, at the top, the #3 ranked public school system in the country) and now as a spouse to a public school teacher in a, frankly, lousy district.

Some kids are just lazy and underachieving and the best teacher in the world won't motivate them. And I don't feel it's fair to punish teachers for that.

This is just awful.

They should institute "merit pay" for senators.

JakeYonkel wrote:I've been on both sides of the issue, obviously as a student of public schools (in, at the top, the #3 ranked public school system in the country) and now as a spouse to a public school teacher in a, frankly, lousy district.

Some kids are just lazy and underachieving and the best teacher in the world won't motivate them. And I don't feel it's fair to punish teachers for that.

Agree...

There has to be a balance between the schools and the parents. parents can't just send their brats to school and expect miracles. They have to be involved themselves. I went to crap schools as a child (the Ozarks), but my family always had books, lots of them and fostered a love of learning. To expect teachers to carry the burden of uninvolved parents is such horseshit. And fuck the politicians...they are catering to knee-jerk rah-rah bullshit.

And this:

Another contentious measure would loosen class size requirements

So does that mean that they'll increase the class sizes at the same time they expect more from teachers? Insane.

vlad wrote:So does that mean that they'll increase the class sizes at the same time they expect more from teachers? Insane.

I'm not really sure.

I do know that the class size rules state that each class can only have X kids per instructor - I want to say somewhere in the neighborhood of 22-25 - yet most, if not all, classes at my wife's school have closer to 30.

And there's no punishment to the district for that or extra funding to hire more teachers to bring the class sizes back to where they are mandated to be. So in effect the class size mandates are meaningless.

Such a mess. I am conservative in nearly all areas but I do NOT agree with Republicans when it comes to education at all.

JakeYonkel wrote:

vlad wrote:So does that mean that they'll increase the class sizes at the same time they expect more from teachers? Insane.

I'm not really sure.

I do know that the class size rules state that each class can only have X kids per instructor - I want to say somewhere in the neighborhood of 22-25 - yet most, if not all, classes at my wife's school have closer to 30.

And there's no punishment to the district for that or extra funding to hire more teachers to bring the class sizes back to where they are mandated to be. So in effect the class size mandates are meaningless.

Such a mess. I am conservative in nearly all areas but I do NOT agree with Republicans when it comes to education at all.

Sounds like they're trying to do away with that darn propagandist public school system completely.

I don't post on the war board usually, as I tend to keep my political views to myself, but.. this is over the top.

As a former Florida school teacher I can tell you that this bill is in direct conflict with the "rules" of the FCAT. (the test they pass and fail kids off of here in Florida)
The state mandated test specifically FORBIDS that teachers and school administrators focus on the test itself for lesson plans, activities or workshops or advancements.
One teacher in Duval County was given an "award" for having the biggest rise in test scores for her students and the award had to be retracted because it was "against the guidelines" of the FCAT.
Now the senate says they will be paid according to the test?

This is just another reminder of why I left teaching and never regretted it.

I'm watching the Florida House debate this bill now before they vote. God help me, I'm agreeing with the Democrats.

JakeYonkel wrote:Some kids are just lazy and underachieving and the best teacher in the world won't motivate them. And I don't feel it's fair to punish teachers for that.

Quite true JY... If they have no parent's pushing them like some of us had our parents do, there's no helping some kids get an education these days.

Totally disagree with them taking this shit out on the teachers.

JakeYonkel wrote:I'm watching the Florida House debate this bill now before they vote. God help me, I'm agreeing with the Democrats.

You've done it before...like when you voted for Obama.

You might actually be the only real "independent" here.

Crazy Levi wrote:This is just awful.

They should institute "merit pay" for senators.

Agreed. Not that this would ever happen.

Crazy Levi wrote:

JakeYonkel wrote:I'm watching the Florida House debate this bill now before they vote. God help me, I'm agreeing with the Democrats.

You've done it before...like when you voted for Obama.

You might actually be the only real "independent" here.

The difference is that I don't claim to be non-affiliated, I tell you I'm conservative but not necessarily a Republican. It just so happens that I agree with them more often than not.

However in this case they're just plain wrong.

Teachers give up high salaries in part for job security.

I'm not saying anybody should be immune from being fired, but if you take away that security, all of a sudden making less than $40K isn't as attractive when you know all it takes is for a few kids to do lousy on a standardized test for you to lose your job.

Chevyman wrote:that is why I have my kids in private school,cause public school teachers suck at teaching

Of course, you know that this is complete BS. Children consistently do better in public schools than in private schools. And public school teachers are better paid for the most part so which (private or public) do you think generally has the cream of the crop teachers to select from?

All these fuckers do now is teach the standardized test anyway, they get the kids to memorize the answers just so they can pass the damn test. My 6 year old does math and they teach them to memorize the answer, not a method of how to work it out which would work in the real world.

So this shit what they're proposing now will only make things worse. Fuckin' school system in America sucks.

The fact that ANYBODY could think this was a good idea proves that our education system has been fucked for a LONG time. Jake, I salute your pragmatism in this case, it's just crazy that they want to do this.

The bill is sitting on Florida Gov. Charlie Crist's desk and he's due to make a sign-or-don't-sign decision sometime this week.

This is an election year, and Crist's opponent in the primaries is an avid supporter of the bill. So Crist, a Republican, pretty much knows if he signs this bill he's going to kiss 200,000 teacher votes goodbye, since he's the only one with the ability to put the kibosh on this thing right now.

And I know that this thread hasn't gotten a ton of love, but if this does pass, it may set the stage for other states to follow suit.

Crist has been saying recently that he very well might not sign it.

I think he can kiss re-election goodbye if he does sign it.

It's an interesting subplot and certainly a tough position for him to be in.

He's not getting re-elected, either way. The polls are decidedly NOT in his favor.

I'm honestly yet to meet a single person that is in favor of the bill. Literally, NOBODY supports it.

And if you believe that politicians are supposed to REPRESENT their people, I don't see how many of them are still voting yes for this despite the backlash.

Charlie Crist vetoed the bill.

Wow, to think a politician actually listened to the people.

JakeYonkel wrote:Charlie Crist vetoed the bill.

Wow, to think a politician actually listened to the people.

For once. Too little, too late, in my opinion.

No argument that the Repubs made total assholes of themselves.

I watched the debate on the House floor. There were a few Republicans who said "I personally support this bill but my constituents do not, and my job is to represent them, so I am voting against it." I respect that! That's their fucking JOB.

I've always felt we do better with Republican leadership at the national level and Democratic leadership at the state and local.

JakeYonkel wrote:No argument that the Repubs made total assholes of themselves.
.

You are gonna be seeing this shit on a national level soon.

The Republicans' refusal to work with the Dems on Wall St reform is going to mirror thier opposition to health care - except this time they won't have nearly the same level of public support.

It's going to be an even bigger disaster for them than health care.

Health care wasn't a disaster for the Republicans. It SHOULD have passed. Dems have the majority. Had it not passed it would have been a disaster for the Democrats.. similar to the Florida situation but reversed.

JakeYonkel wrote:Health care wasn't a disaster for the Republicans. It SHOULD have passed. Dems have the majority. Had it not passed it would have been a disaster for the Democrats.. similar to the Florida situation but reversed.

Well we are going to agree to disagree on that one...defeating health care was their #1 priority, they put all their eggs in that basket, and they fucking DECLARED VICTORY when pin up boy won that election in Mass...only to fail miserably when HC reform passed...

but putting all that aside, what do you think of my statement that they are about to replicate this Florida shit on a national level when they go after Dem attempts to fuck with Wall Street, who are basically up there with big tobacco when it comes to approval ratings?

I admittedly haven't paid much attention to it thusfar and I don't want to make an ass of myself and assume things since I don't really know what's going on.

Honestly though I'm much more of a social conservative than fiscal.

jake you are a fuckin tool. teachers here in south fla think they're the center of the universe as if they're the only ones working to make a living. always bitching and protesting

news flash , you got tenure and a fuckin pension, so deal with it !