Metal Sludge Gossip Board

What do you think? Surprised it hasn't yet appeared on this board.

It's pretty much a "re-write" of what is already Federal law and a waste of the seventeen pages of paper it's written on. The state had no right to do it, and I have a feeling it will turn into the same disaster California faced fifteen years ago with Proposition 187.

If, by chance, it is implemented, I really don't see how on Earth it can be enforced without there being some kind of racial profiling unless of course everyone who is ever stopped by police is asked for proof of his/her immigration status. I certainly don't see that happening if for no other reason than the amount of extra time it would consume in order to verify it.

Personally I think it's an attempt at a money making scheme by the GOP rather than a good attempt to actually fix the immigration situation and, in the end, will do nothing but bog down an already overloaded system.

Right idea, but probably poor execution.

Focus less on amnesty and more on getting these people out of here if they're here illegally.

Deport the illegals that are in jail to their countries of origin.

Just get them the fuck out. Sorry if I sound heartless but we've got enough trouble supporting people who actually belong here to be carrying anyone else's baggage.

SeminiferousButtNoid wrote:The problem with the law isn't the part making "illegal immigration" illegal; states pass their own versions of federal law all the time. The problem is the huge latitude that it gives police officers to detain and investigate people without reasonable probable cause. The law is constitutionally vague, and allows for law enforcement to violate American citizen's Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights. The Arizona government's defense of noblesse oblige, or "we promise not to abuse the power and pull over mexicans just because they are mexicans" is ludicrous, to say the least. That's exactly what law enforcement will do.

You said it better than I could have.

those people broke the law when they came across without papers,they should all go back home

tin00can wrote:

SeminiferousButtNoid wrote:The problem with the law isn't the part making "illegal immigration" illegal; states pass their own versions of federal law all the time. The problem is the huge latitude that it gives police officers to detain and investigate people without reasonable probable cause. The law is constitutionally vague, and allows for law enforcement to violate American citizen's Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights. The Arizona government's defense of noblesse oblige, or "we promise not to abuse the power and pull over mexicans just because they are mexicans" is ludicrous, to say the least. That's exactly what law enforcement will do.

You said it better than I could have.

Yeah, there's no sense reinventing this wheel. We'll see how many blond haired, blue eyed people they pull over to make sure they didn't sneak in from Sweden.

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote:Yeah, there's no sense reinventing this wheel. We'll see how many blond haired, blue eyed people they pull over to make sure they didn't sneak in from Sweden.

I've heard stuff like this said before, "Are they gonna pull over any white people?", the reality is 95% of illegal immigrants are from south of the border countries, next two biggest amounts are from asian countries, So where are all these white illegals that add to the problem? I know their are some canadians, russian etc, there has to be But theres no denying where the major problem is coming from So I don't think the race card should even play into it.

The dumbest thing about the law is Officers can be sued If you think they're not enforcing it, It definitley needs to be redone but at least they're trying unlike the government who's been sitting on their asses for way too long allowing this shit to just get worse.

dtmfs wrote:

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote:Yeah, there's no sense reinventing this wheel. We'll see how many blond haired, blue eyed people they pull over to make sure they didn't sneak in from Sweden.

I've heard stuff like this said before, "Are they gonna pull over any white people?", the reality is 95% of illegal immigrants are from south of the border countries, next two biggest amounts are from asian countries, So where are all these white illegals that add to the problem? I know their are some canadians, russian etc, there has to be But theres no denying where the major problem is coming from So I don't think the race card should even play into it.

The dumbest thing about the law is Officers can be sued If you think they're not enforcing it, It definitley needs to be redone but at least they're trying unlike the government who's been sitting on their asses for way too long allowing this shit to just get worse.

You don't get it. This will be all about race. They won't detain John Smith but Juan Rodriguez will be a different story. Eventually, some legal US citizen with brown skin, a Hispanic surname and an accent without ID on him will get nabbed by some cop trying to enforce this law. This guy's lawyer will ask how many white people without ID were hauled in, unable to prove their citizenship.

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote:

You don't get it. This will be all about race. They won't detain John Smith but Juan Rodriguez will be a different story. Eventually, some legal US citizen with brown skin, a Hispanic surname and an accent without ID on him will get nabbed by some cop trying to enforce this law. This guy's lawyer will ask how many white people without ID were hauled in, unable to prove their citizenship.[/quote]

You're right, I wasen't think about it from the lawyers point of view, no doubt the law has some flaws and will most likley be deemed unconstitutional, So where does Ariz go from there? Can they get rid of some of the dumber shit and try to get something passed? My hope is this whole thing will light a fire under Obama's ass to get something done.

The people that should be the most pissed are the ones who went through all the right steps to become citizens, and I've read from some of them on blogs and they are pissed but moreso at the illegals who give them a bad name than the State for trying to fix it.

edited to add, I don't know how I fucked up the quote function but fuck it.

As soon as they pick up Steve Nash on a day he forgets "his papers" the shit'll hit the fan.

You know who else demanded certain groups carry "their papers?"

/Godwin'd

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote: You don't get it. This will be all about race. They won't detain John Smith but Juan Rodriguez will be a different story. Eventually, some legal US citizen with brown skin, a Hispanic surname and an accent without ID on him will get nabbed by some cop trying to enforce this law. This guy's lawyer will ask how many white people without ID were hauled in, unable to prove their citizenship.

dtmfs wrote: You're right, I wasen't think about it from the lawyers point of view, no doubt the law has some flaws and will most likley be deemed unconstitutional, So where does Ariz go from there? Can they get rid of some of the dumber shit and try to get something passed? My hope is this whole thing will light a fire under Obama's ass to get something done.

The people that should be the most pissed are the ones who went through all the right steps to become citizens, and I've read from some of them on blogs and they are pissed but moreso at the illegals who give them a bad name than the State for trying to fix it.

edited to add, I don't know how I fucked up the quote function but fuck it.

70% of Arizonians support the law, so it won't be repealed. It will make its way to the Supreme Court and hopefully be decided against the State of Arizona. Like I said, only part of the law is unconstitutional, so a new law should be drafted without the powers bestowed on law enforcement for detainment.

As far as the politics behind this, it's the same old story. You have a right wing that is nativist and want to get rid of illegals so much that they don't mind giving up a few of their rights (or in this case, other people's rights). And then you have a left wing that wants open borders, and amnesty, and don't care about drug wars spilling over, flying their mexican flags on May Day.

The moral of the story is you don't sacrifice the inalienable (no pun intended) rights of American citizens in order catch and convict non-citizens.

thejuggernaut wrote:Where is Al Gore in all of this ?

Flying back and forth over the country in his private jet while chiding us to turn the lights off when we leave the room.

OK, Shakira is now heading to Arizona to protest.

I want to engage in intercourse with Shakira.

I am now conflicted.

is she going to shake her fine ass to distract the guards so the Mexicans can get across ?

Looks like the left needs to coordinate with their co-conspirators a
little better

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100501/ap_ ... eputy_shot

You know the law is a tad draconian when Tom Tancredo says it goes too far.

As for the "nativists"....a bunch of snowbirds (Arizona is the fastest growing state) acting like they are the indigenous people of Arizona is a hoot.

I hear the President of Mexico called it a racist law.



I guess he forgot the postage stamps Mexico had a few years back.

VinnieKulick wrote:I hear the President of Mexico called it a racist law.



I guess he forgot the postage stamps Mexico had a few years back.

I guess he forgets how his country treats illegals.

Give it time. It's only a question of when some cop pulls over the wrong Latino while looking to send another spic back where they belong. Some of them are US citizens, after all. Getting busted for 'driving while brown' won't go over any better than 'driving while black' did.

dtmfs wrote: Fact is They're deporting the people they should, What's the fucking problem?

The problem arrives the second they pull over someone that they shouldn't. The second they use the law to pull over and detain someone for suspicion of non-citizenship when they are really looking for drugs; because they usually wouldn't have probable cause otherwise. Or the second they pull over an American citizen simply because they are beaner and ask them to show proof. It gives the police power of the state too much leeway. The fact that it will effect predominately mexicans is incidental.

And even though the federal law and the state law are essentially the same, it gives state and local law enforcement de facto power that the federal government doesn't utilize for good reason. INS officers don't ride around in cars patrolling the streets. Arizona police do. You can not give the state arbitrary power to detain people. A street cop's suspicion of violation of illegal immigration law is arbitrary unless ten people inform him that Jose Jimenez is not a citizen.

I don't give a damn if this law results in every illegal immigrant in Arizona getting caught and deported. Those concerns are subordinate to the one American citizen's rights they do violate. It's another consequentialist defense that remains wrong no matter what the reward is; the ends do not justify the means.

dtmfs wrote:I bet alot of legal latinos have already been pulled over for the wrong reasons, and it sucks. But the law has been amended and says suspects can only be asked about their immigration status if they are already engaged in a stop, If cops go around harrasing hispanics sue the fuck out of the morons, that's also in the law. The majority of Arizona and the Majority of Americans are in favor of the law. I understand what You're saying about racial profiling, but it seems to me that they are doing everything in their power to keep that from happening.

Two words: pretext stop. Every DWB had one also. As far as preventing racial profiling, are they asking everyone involved in every stop if they're citizens and are they checking out everyone's story?

I've been stopped and I show my ID and after a check,its thank you and have a nice day.

Chevyman wrote:I've been stopped and I show my ID and after a check,its thank you and have a nice day.

And?

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote: Two words: pretext stop. Every DWB had one also. As far as preventing racial profiling, are they asking everyone involved in every stop if they're citizens and are they checking out everyone's story?

Virtually all of the illegals in Arizona are Hispanic, most Mexican, and to find the illegals you really do, of necessity, have to look for Latinos and if you look for Latinos you're profiling. How stupid is this? Mexicans are invading Arizona, but you when you go looking for the invaders, for the law breakers, you can't go looking for Mexicans. Doesn't that sound just a bit ridiculous?

Nevermind wrote: Virtually all of the illegals in Arizona are Hispanic, most Mexican, and to find the illegals you really do, of necessity, have to look for Latinos and if you look for Latinos you're profiling. How stupid is this? Mexicans are invading Arizona, but you when you go looking for the invaders, for the law breakers, you can't go looking for Mexicans. Doesn't that sound just a bit ridiculous?

Well the main problem is the drug wars at the border, and the cops can definitley not make the mistake of just checking hispanics during stops, I'm not talking about for citizenship either, I know damn well there are some white mother fuckers and afro americans as well going down to Mexico and smuggling some shit in. Meatpuppets is one of those annoyingly smart mother fuckers (in a good way) in the fact that he makes You think of shit you havent thought of before regarding certain issues, Fuckers got me twice in less than a week. Though I still found the comment the TYT dude made about swedes funny.