Holder & Co Justice Dept NYC terrorist plot press conference

[Cliffenstein]

I just finished watching this. My, my, my...if I didn't know better, I'd think this was the Bush administration. Terms, tone, subject matter...I've been transported back in time!

I look forward to hearing the claims that are sure to come of this being all ginned up just to scare us into re-electing the party currently in power and/or to garner support for an unnecessary, unjust and illegal war.

No blood for oil!

later...Cliffy

[Crazy Levi]

I just finished watching this. My, my, my...if I didn't know better, I'd think this was the Bush administration. Terms, tone, subject matter...I've been transported back in time!

I look forward to hearing the claims that are sure to come of this being all ginned up just to scare us into re-electing the party currently in power and/or to garner support for an unnecessary, unjust and illegal war.

No blood for oil!

later...Cliffy

Why do you hate America?

[Ugmo]

I look forward to hearing the claims that are sure to come of this being all ginned up just to scare us into re-electing the party currently in power and/or to garner support for an unnecessary, unjust and illegal war.

What unnecessary, unjust and illegal invasion is Obama gearing up for... Burma? North Korea? Zimbabwe?

[Cliffenstein]

Sarcasm a bit difficult for you boys to comprehend?

And ya'll know we're still in Iraq, right?

Obama's droppin' drones all over Afghanistan.

"I said build that pipeline, boys!"

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Sarcasm a bit difficult for you boys to comprehend?

And ya'll know we're still in Iraq, right?

Obama's droppin' drones all over Afghanistan.

"I said build that pipeline, boys!"

[Cliffenstein]

Sarcasm is much easier to understand when it is the spoken word, but I still made it clear enough in my initial post for any left wingnut to catch.

[Ugmo]

I get what you're saying, but I think the comparison falls completely flat because it wasn't Obama who started the unnecessary Iraq War, but it still has to be ended responsibly. And the main reason we're still in Afghanistan is because Cheney started the Iraq War. Obama is just cleaning up Bush's mess.

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

, but it still has to be ended responsibly.

What does that platitude mean, exactly?

[Ugmo]

What does that platitude mean, exactly?

It means drawing down troop levels gradually and not just cutting and running and leaving a power vacuum. Why is it a platitude?

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

What does that platitude mean, exactly?

It means drawing down troop levels gradually and not just cutting and running and leaving a power vacuum. Why is it a platitude?

It's a platitude because it's a phrase that is used continuously by intervention apologists to describe an exit strategy that is non-existent, and is based on words and not action. "Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another. LOL @ "power vacuum", you must have heard someone quoting Paul Wolfowitz in a bar. So potentially 10-15 years of occupying a country, more American and coalition troops dead, and the same amount of Iraqis dead vs. a power vacuum.

Maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but there are already civil wars going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. That isn't going to change whether we pull out tomorrow or when we decide to "responsibly" pull out.

[Ugmo]

How are "troops not being withdrawn" when I posted the links for you last time you brought this up stating that troops are in fact being withdrawn, and that process is actually ahead of schedule? There is no civil war in Iraq. Things are MUCH quieter there than a couple of years ago, thanks in large part to Dubya's surge.

[vanitybinge]

What does that platitude mean, exactly?

It means drawing down troop levels gradually and not just cutting and running and leaving a power vacuum. Why is it a platitude?

It's a platitude because it's a phrase that is used continuously by intervention apologists to describe an exit strategy that is non-existent, and is based on words and not action. "Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another. LOL @ "power vacuum", you must have heard someone quoting Paul Wolfowitz in a bar. So potentially 10-15 years of occupying a country, more American and coalition troops dead, and the same amount of Iraqis dead vs. a power vacuum.

Maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but there are already civil wars going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. That isn't going to change whether we pull out tomorrow or when we decide to "responsibly" pull out.

What exactly is a responsible way to pull out vs an irresponsible way?








I suppose if you left the condom in the snatch, that's irresponsible.

[Ugmo]

[Cliffenstein]

I get what you're saying, but I think the comparison falls completely flat because it wasn't Obama who started the unnecessary Iraq War, but it still has to be ended responsibly. And the main reason we're still in Afghanistan is because Cheney started the Iraq War. Obama is just cleaning up Bush's mess.

haha...that's funny. So...you find it reasonable and responsible to be dropping drones on innocent people because the word came in that ONE of the bad guys MIGHT be among them? Wedding, funeral, family time in the back yard...drones have been dropped in every and all such occasions and innocents have been killed because of it. So...am I to ascertain from this that now that Obama is president you find collateral damage an acceptable and reasonable and responsible thing?

Besides...I thought we were the bad guys...wouldn't the responsible and reasonable way of "getting out of Bush's mess" be simply to immediately withdraw all forces and let the chips fall where they may? I mean...we're the bad guy in all this according to all the lefties out there, so how could anything but good come from us leaving?

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

This troll is supposedly Iggy Pop's 'son'. He's like a less entertaining version of Itwalks.

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

How are "troops not being withdrawn" when I posted the links for you last time you brought this up

Yes, we've all seen your regurgitated factcheck.org link about Obama withdrawing a token 30,000 troops from Iraq in about five different threads on this board in response to everything from the economy to gay rights. I think you may posted it in a Motley Crue thread in the gossip board, too.

stating that troops are in fact being withdrawn,

"Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another.

"Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another.

"Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another.

"Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another.

"Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another.

"Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another.

"Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another.

"Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another.

"Drawing down troop levels gradually" has no meaning when troops aren't being withdrawn, but simply being transferred from one shitstorm we created to another.

--------What part of transferring 30,000 troops from Iraq to Afghanistan do you not understand? The total amount of troops in the middle east has increased and the defense budget has increased under the Obama administration. That is not withdrawal.

and that process is actually ahead of schedule?

The only schedule that should be followed is one of immediate and complete withdrawal from all occupied territories that we have no business nation building and cleaning up messes that we started.

There is no civil war in Iraq.

I'm speechless...

Things are MUCH quieter there than a couple of years ago, thanks in large part to Dubya's surge.

Oh yeah. It's been real quiet. Here are the documented Iraqi civilian deaths in the past two months. These do not include military deaths. If you use the search feature, you will see the words "bomb" "shot dead" and "murdered" quite a few times.


IBC page Latest incidents added Date
Two by roadside bomb in Yusufiya 26 Apr 2010
k14927 Shop owner/Awakening Council member by bomb attached to car, Mansour, Baghdad 25 Apr 2010
k14926 Three by roadside bombs near pool hall, Al Amin, southwest Baghdad 24 Apr 2010
k14925 Awakening Council member shot dead in market in Saadiya 24 Apr 2010
k14924 Man shot dead in Dawrat al-Hamameel, west Mosul 24 Apr 2010
k14923 Taxi driver shot dead in Tanak, west Mosul 24 Apr 2010
k14922 Man shot dead near home in Tanak, west Mosul 24 Apr 2010
k14910 Two by bomb attached to car in Baquba 20 Apr 2010
k14907 Two bodies found shot dead near Mosul 19 Apr 2010
k14906 Two by roadside bomb in al-Azeem 19 Apr 2010
k14905 Man shot dead near home in Tahreer, east Mosul 19 Apr 2010
k14909 Three members of police officer's family killed in Mussayab 18 Apr 2010
k14903 Body of man found shot dead west of Baghdad 18 Apr 2010
k14901 Policeman by bomb in shop in Abi-Saida, Al-Muqdadiyah 18 Apr 2010
k14900 Body of 30-year-old Shabak man found dead near Birtilla, east of Mosul 18 Apr 2010
k14896 One shot dead in Amil, southwest Baghdad 16 Apr 2010
k14891 Body of 20-year-old man found tortured in Tigris, Kut 15 Apr 2010
k14887 Body of girl found shot dead in al-Dhubat, central Basra 14 Apr 2010
k14886 Man shot dead near house in al-Quds, east Mosul 14 Apr 2010
k14885 Member of Kurdistan Justice party shot dead in al-Zohour, Mosul 14 Apr 2010
k14884 Policeman shot dead in Masaref, Mosul 14 Apr 2010
k14883 Nurse shot dead near home in Mosul 14 Apr 2010
k14880 Three by bomb attached to car, Micanic, Doura, south Baghdad 13 Apr 2010
k14879 Police officer shot dead in car in east Mosul 13 Apr 2010
k14872 Body of woman found shot dead in Jadieda al-Shatt, Khales 9 Apr 2010
k14868 One by roadside bomb east of Baquba 8 Apr 2010
k14867 Two shot dead near market in Khalis 8 Apr 2010
k14866 Body of man found stabbed in car in Basra 8 Apr 2010
k14861 Policeman from injuries in bomb blast in al-Iyadiya, Talafar 7 Apr 2010
k14859 Two women in car shot dead north of Hilla 6 Apr 2010
k14856 Mechanic shot dead in shop in east Mosul 6 Apr 2010
k14851 Body found shot dead in Khazraj, central Mosul 5 Apr 2010
k14849 Three by car bomb in market, Wadi Hajar, south Mosul 4 Apr 2010
k14847 Body of policeman found shot dead in plantation, al-Zankoura, north Ramadi 4 Apr 2010
k14846 Man shot dead near home in al-Qahira, north Mosul 4 Apr 2010
k14845 Merchant shot dead in Iskandariya 3 Apr 2010-
4 Apr 2010
k14848 Two by bomb attached to car, al-Tojari Street, Saidiya, sourh Baghdad 3 Apr 2010
k14844 Store owner by bomb in store, Al-Saleekh, north Baghdad 3 Apr 2010
k14843 Two children by roadside bomb, Al-Multawa, southwest of Kirkuk 3 Apr 2010
k14841 Twenty-five villagers shot in Albu Saifi, Hawr Rijab 2 Apr 2010-
3 Apr 2010
k14840 Man and son by roadside bomb in Tabj, Jalawlaa 2 Apr 2010
k14839 Man shot dead near home in Zahra', east Mosul 2 Apr 2010
k14838 Man in car by roadside bomb in Dali 1 Apr 2010
k14837 Two by bomb in market in Mosul 1 Apr 2010
k14836 Mobile phone shop owner shot dead in Ur, north Baghdad 31 Mar 2010
k14835 Health official shot dead at home in Slaikh, north Baghdad 31 Mar 2010
k14834 Awakening Council member by mortar in Dali, Mansuriya 31 Mar 2010
k14833 Bodies of woman and daughter found shot dead in Bassateen, north Baghdad 31 Mar 2010
k14832 Woman shot dead in house in Intisar, east Mosul 31 Mar 2010
k14831 Two police by roadside bomb in west Mosul 31 Mar 2010


k14830 Man shot dead near house in east Mosul 31 Mar 2010
k14829 Two young men shot dead near home, Jammasah, east Mosul 30 Mar 2010
k14828 Man shot dead in store in al-Nsr, south Kirkuk 30 Mar 2010
k14827 Woman shot dead in Tal Afar 30 Mar 2010
k14826 Body found shot dead in Tal Afar 30 Mar 2010
k14825 4-year-old girl in crossfire between militants and security forces in east Mosul 30 Mar 2010
k14823 Body of woman found in Nadir, Hilla 29 Mar 2010-
30 Mar 2010
k14824 5-11 by car bombs in Kerbala 29 Mar 2010
k14822 Finance Ministry employee by magnetic bomb, Abi Dasheer, Doura, south Baghdad 29 Mar 2010
k14821 Body of taxi driver found shot dead near Laylan, south Kirkuk 29 Mar 2010
k14820 3-6 by bombs in al-Risala, Qa'im 28 Mar 2010
k14819 Man in clashes between gunmen and police, Ma'ash market, west Mosul 28 Mar 2010
k14818 Two by roadside bomb in Mosul 28 Mar 2010
k14817 Three shot dead in Saadiya 28 Mar 2010
k14816 Sahwa leader shot dead in Adhmaiya, Baghdad 27 Mar 2010
k14815 Two men shot dead in Saadiya 27 Mar 2010
k14814 One shot dead in Mosul 27 Mar 2010
k14813 Two shot dead in Mosul 27 Mar 2010
k14812 Fifty-nine by car bomb and roadside bomb in Khalis 25 Mar 2010
k14811 Body of woman found shot dead near Suwayrah 25 Mar 2010
k14810 Woman and daughter shot dead in Diyala Bridge, southeast Baghdad 25 Mar 2010
k14809 Awakening Council leader by roadside bomb in Al-Ray, southwest Baghdad 25 Mar 2010
k14808 Two poliice by hand grenade near Kirkuk 25 Mar 2010
k14807 One by roadside bomb in Tuz Khurmato 25 Mar 2010
k14806 Policeman by suicide bomber, al-Bo Abeid, east Ramadi 25 Mar 2010
k14805 3-4 by teenage suicide bomber in Hit 24 Mar 2010
k14804 One by hand grenade in market, Bab al-Tawb, central Mosul 24 Mar 2010
k14803 Bomb disposal expert defusing roadside bomb in Muqdadiya 24 Mar 2010
k14802 Man by explosive device in al-Majarra, al-Khales 24 Mar 2010
k14801 Man shot dead in Nahrawan, west Mosul 24 Mar 2010
k14800 Awakening Council member by roadside bomb in Baladruz 23 Mar 2010
k14799 One by roadside bomb in Jurf as-Sakhar 23 Mar 2010
k14798 Two policemen shot dead at checkpoint, Radwaniya, west Baghdad 22 Mar 2010
k14797 Two municipal council members shot dead in Sadr City, Baghdad 22 Mar 2010
k14796 Electrician shot dead in home, al-Tink, west Mosul 22 Mar 2010
k14795 83-year-old crippled man shot dead in home, al-Tanak, west Mosul 21 Mar 2010
k14794 Awakening Council member and wife shot dead in Karma 21 Mar 2010
k14793 Policeman by roadside bomb in Dora, south Baghdad 21 Mar 2010
k14792 Three in minibus by roadside bomb in Yousifiyah 21 Mar 2010
k14842 Decayed body of man found in pool in Zahra, east Mosul 20 Mar 2010-
3 Apr 2010
k14791 Body of policeman found shot dead, al-Sinaa al-Qadeema, Saqlawiya 19 Mar 2010-
21 Mar 2010
k14790 1-2 by roadside bomb in Sadr City, Baghdad 19 Mar 2010
k14789 Body of young farmer found shot dead near Saadiya 19 Mar 2010
K14788 Two shot dead in al-Nada, al-Saadiya 19 Mar 2010
k14787 Bodies of two men found shot dead in Al-Namroud, southeast Mosul 18 Mar 2010
k14785 Woman shot dead in brother's house in Mahmudiya 18 Mar 2010
k14784 Taxi driver shot dead in Shaab, north Baghdad 18 Mar 2010
k14783 24-year-old woman shot dead in house in al-Mithaq, east Mosul 18 Mar 2010
k14782 Truck driver shot dead near Dorat al-Sowas, south Mosul 18 Mar 2010
k14781 Policeman shot dead in Mosul


Shit, with all the troops Obama's withdrawing and how quiet and stable it's gotten, lets go to Baghdad for Spring Break next year!

[Cliffenstein]

supposedly Iggy Pop's 'son'.

^^ Gullible

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

supposedly Iggy Pop's 'son'.

^^ Gullible

Yeah, you fooled everybody.

[Ugmo]

You can't handle the truth. You don't like my politifact links because they expose your lack of knowledge on the subject. You can't argue with them, so you just ignore them, and then whine about me posting them too often.

You read my original statement, right? The one about ending the war IN IRAQ responsibly? You're saying troop levels in Iraq are completely irrelevant if troops are built up elsewhere? Really? So it's all just one big confict and unless troops are removed from both countries at the same rate that means progress isn't being made in Iraq? Do you even think about the drivel you write, or do you just expect no one will call you on it if your font is large and annoying enough?

Great list, now post one of all the violence in America over the past two months. The STATISTICS show that the violence in Iraq has dropped sharply over the past couple of years. Although I realize you hate statistics because they're almost never on your side.

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

You can't handle the truth.

What exactly is the truth, Mr Kant?

You don't like my politifact links because they expose your lack of knowledge on the subject.

I love it when you posts those links. I love it when an internet left winger thinks they have a chip in the big game by posting statistics from a site that they think is like a proclamation from God, when they have neither the intellect or education to interpret it in context. You have very little education. I think you know that. If I didn't know you play guitar, I would have sworn you are a drummer.

You can't argue with them, so you just ignore them, and then whine about me posting them too often.

, arguing with them is all I've been doing. Like I said, the more you post factcheck.org links as an affirmative defense without commentary, your lack of formal education becomes more and more apparent. Please, keep posting them.

You read my original statement, right? The one about ending the war IN IRAQ responsibly?

Yes, I did. Did you read my response that ending the war in Iraq responsibly is platitude because it is a trite statement without a concrete and mapped out definition of what that means and little or no elaboration from our government on how exactly that is going to be achieved?

You're saying troop levels in Iraq are completely irrelevant if troops are built up elsewhere? Really? So it's all just one big conflict and unless troops are removed from both countries at the same rate that means progress isn't being made in Iraq?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Maybe you did go to junior college for a year. Since you finally deciphered this, I apologize for my earlier comments regarding your ability to understand. It is one big conflict. The goal of the conflict was to destroy and then nation build two countries for reasons that were fabricated. The words "progress" and "responsibly" don't apply here because the only progress that can be made is when 0 American soldiers are at risk in the Middle East and $0 American taxpayer dollars are wasted on occupations that gain us nothing.

Do you even think about the drivel you write, or do you just expect no one will call you on it if your font is large and annoying enough?

Please don't kid yourself. I think you know what I'm saying is not drivel. You may not realize this but there are a lot of people out there on both ends of the political spectrum in this country that think the US should not meddle in the middle east. If your factcheck.org links and your fallacious arguments are what "calling out" someone means, I think I've been transported to Bizarro Smart World.

Great list,

It was a great list. It refuted two of your arguments.

1) Meatbro says there is no civil war in Iraq

Meatbro is wrong because sectarian violence from four different factions continue to bomb and shoot civilians, police officers, and military from both sides in an effort to overthrow whatever government we have puppeted over there.

2) Meatbro says progress has been made

Meatbro's definition of progress is similar to the government of Oceania's definition in Orwell's 1984. Those are many hundreds of confirmed civilian deaths in the last TWO MONTHS only. Not including American and Coalition soldiers deaths. That's an interesting view of what progress is Mr. Ministry of Peace. Perhaps in 10 more years of occupation, we may have deaths caused by sectarian violence down to 100 per month. That would definitely be worth it, huh?

now post one of all the violence in America over the past two months.

Never-mind, you really are an idiot.

The STATISTICS show that the violence in Iraq has dropped sharply over the past couple of years.

The only thing the STATISTICS have shown is that violence against American troops has been reduced. Civilians deaths have stayed about the same. Progress, right?

Although I realize you hate statistics because they're almost never on your side.

[/quote]

You're right. I hate statistics that show hundreds of people getting killed because we are "responsibly pulling out". I hate statistics that show that we are spending billions of tax dollars on the military to perpetuate these deaths. I hate this statistic most of all.

4,123 American Soldiers dead since the war in Iraq started.

Your "progress" and "responsible withdrawal" isn't worth a single additional American death. That's what you don't seem to understand.