Glenn Beck Admits Lying

[bane]

Did you have a storm surge in your house with Katrina Lerx? As I recall you live as far inland as I do. Ike had a Cat 5 level storm surge. My house didn't see it, but I know lots of people who did. You know what I do for a living. Do you really think I didn't physically see the damage from the surge? Really? I also saw all the trees, roofs and houses blown away by the wind in my neighborhood. I know exactly what a hurricane can do. I haven't been on here bitching about it though. Houston is 30 miles from the Gulf Coast. That's a far cry from 350. I don't live in Dallas dude. You can say I'm sticking my head in the sand if it makes you feel better, but I'll continue to think you're crying wolf.

[bane]

If the election was a foregone conclusion like the last one was and there was a chance the left could get the right's guy disqualified you bet your ass the left would bring it up.

Sorry, I disagree. No one on the left cared that McCain was born in Panama, not even for the couple of weeks of Palinmania. The left would look at that as an advantage through broadened perspectives, whereas some on the right fear it.

Who brought up McCain's birthplace in the first place Ugmo? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the right. They dropped it so fast because it immediately came to light that both of his parents were citizens making the whole thing a moot point. I don't think the left's being more tolerant had much to do with it. I really don't think either side cares as much about this as you seem to think. It's just a means to an end. I am reasonably certain that the left would be shooting down an Arnold candidacy based on his origins if they thought he was a slam dunk to win it against their guy though. You're giving that tolerance thing a little too much credit I think. Tolerance and enlightenment is all well and good, but it goes right out the window when the partisan competition gets going.

[Ugmo]

I don't remember - I presume a couple of people on the left mentioned it as a joke because of all the "Just who is Barack Obama" paranoia from the right, to draw attention to the hypocrisy. You seriously think anyone on the left was questioning McCain's credentials as an American the way the lunatics on the right were questioning Obama's? Please. Let's keep this discussion based on reality dude!

[bane]

I don't remember - I presume a couple of people on the left mentioned it as a joke because of all the "Just who is Barack Obama" paranoia from the right, to draw attention to the hypocrisy. You seriously think anyone on the left was questioning McCain's credentials as an American the way the lunatics on the right were questioning Obama's? Please. Let's keep this discussion based on reality dude!

McCain was a senator for 30 years and a war hero dude. Obama was a relative unknown with some questionable origins. We aren't exactly comparing apples to apples here. Don't get me wrong, I think all that birthers crap was exactly that, crap, but at least with Obama there was a little smoke.

[Ugmo]

McCain was a senator for 30 years and a war hero dude. Obama was a relative unknown with some questionable origins. We aren't exactly comparing apples to apples here. Don't get me wrong, I think all that birthers crap was exactly that, crap, but at least with Obama there was a little smoke.

No there wasn't. Come on. Obama has dark skin and a funny name, and that's all it takes to evoke paranoia in a certain section of the electorate that just happens to vote Republican everytime. And in response to that a couple of people on the left clearly said "Really? Well at least our guy was born in the U.S.!"

[bane]

McCain was a senator for 30 years and a war hero dude. Obama was a relative unknown with some questionable origins. We aren't exactly comparing apples to apples here. Don't get me wrong, I think all that birthers crap was exactly that, crap, but at least with Obama there was a little smoke.

No there wasn't. Come on. Obama has dark skin and a funny name, and that's all it takes to evoke paranoia in a certain section of the electorate that just happens to vote Republican everytime. And in response to that a couple of people on the left clearly said "Really? Well at least our guy was born in the U.S.!"

Sure there was. His father wasn't a US citizen. He lived a chunk of his childhood in Kenya, and nobody knew a hell of a lot about him etc. I won't argue that there is a chunk of the electorate that still thinks he's a muslem. Some people are just dumb, but that isn't representative of the entire right dude.

[Ugmo]

I gotta laugh at "nobody knew about him." The voters by and large don't give a shit about anything until a couple of months before the election. The Teabaggers found out about Sarah Palin and within a week they knew everything they needed to know about her and were thrilled with her, yet Obama was some kind of enigma despite having been on the national political scene for several years already? Nigga please. It wasn't 1808, it was 2008. All the information people need on a candidate is available within mere seconds.

[lerxstcat]

Did you have a storm surge in your house with Katrina Lerx? As I recall you live as far inland as I do. Ike had a Cat 5 level storm surge. My house didn't see it, but I know lots of people who did. You know what I do for a living. Do you really think I didn't physically see the damage from the surge? Really? I also saw all the trees, roofs and houses blown away by the wind in my neighborhood. I know exactly what a hurricane can do. I haven't been on here bitching about it though. Houston is 30 miles from the Gulf Coast. That's a far cry from 350. I don't live in Dallas dude. You can say I'm sticking my head in the sand if it makes you feel better, but I'll continue to think you're crying wolf.

5 years later I live inland, Bane. The storm surge varied as far as height and how far in it went depending on where you were because of barrier islands and underwater sanbars and such. My building took 3 feet of water, it was 2 miles inland. In some places the 35-foot surge went more than 10 miles inland.

Ike was no Katrina. It was a serious storm but everyone on earth but you realizes that Katrina was much more catastrophic. You're pissed about the Katrina thing because your crime went up from the New orleans evacuees - the ones who got a levee break. We got the brunt of the storm and a 35-foot wall of water

I said you are 350 miles from HERE, the Mississippi Gulf Coast, and going by news reports that are laundered, both with regard to Katrina and to the oil spill. Therefore, because you are 350 miles from the area affected, you don't know what you are talking about, wheras I DO live here, still drive down to see friends often, have smelled the oil and benzenes and Corexit burning my lungs and eyes.

That should have been clear enough the first time, but do you get it now?

I wouldn't presume to tell you you are lying or exaggerating about Katrina refugees upping the crime rate in Houston - because you are there, and I am not. I think you're pissed because I said something you didn't like about Bonzo's sidekick Reagan, so you decided to get pissy about things.

Bitch move, dude. I thought you were better than that. I know what I'm talking about. There WERE plenty of videos on youtube corroborating it, but BP aggressively removed them, removes Google links, almost as ffast as they go up. Money talks.

[bane]

I gotta laugh at "nobody knew about him." The voters by and large don't give a shit about anything until a couple of months before the election. The Teabaggers found out about Sarah Palin and within a week they knew everything they needed to know about her and were thrilled with her, yet Obama was some kind of enigma despite having been on the national political scene for several years already? Nigga please. It wasn't 1808, it was 2008. All the information people need on a candidate is available within mere seconds.

It's just candidacy 101. You use what you can to try and discredit the other guy. McCain was old. Palin was dumb. Obama wasn't well known. Come on dude. I haven't lent credence to the argument. Don't put me in the position of defending people that are obviously very stupid. All I'm saying is that as far as campaign diversions go, there was a little smoke there.

[bane]

You might want to go back and read your post Lerx. You said "Houston is 350 miles from the Gulf Coast", and "Houston is NOT on the gulf coast". I'm not claiming that Ike was a Katrina. Katrina was worse, much worse. It killed over 1800 people. Ike killed something like 300. I was merely pointing out that I know what hurricanes can do after living through one. That was in direct response to your "You don't know!!!111!!!!" claim. As to the rest of your claims, I will point out once again that your region was absolutely crawling with the world's press during the spill. Your claims have not been echoed by any of that world press. You do have a habit of using what looks like hyperbole to make your point. I'm not calling you a liar. I do think that you exagerrate things. To read your posts you would think that the US government is actively working with BP to poison the citizenry of your region and covering it up. You paint pictures of shady helicoptors and evil corporate Dr' Evils. It sounds like a James Bond plot. Your Reagan thing is just wrong. I was a child when Reagan was president. All I really know about him are hazy childhood memories of him on TV, what my parents have told me and what the press reports. I don't hold him in any particularly high regard. Your aversion to him doesn't piss me off in the least.

[lerxstcat]

You might want to go back and read your post Lerx. You said "Houston is 350 miles from the Gulf Coast", and "Houston is NOT on the gulf coast". I'm not claiming that Ike was a Katrina. Katrina was worse, much worse. It killed over 1800 people. Ike killed something like 300. I was merely pointing out that I know what hurricanes can do after living through one. That was in direct response to your "You don't know!!!111!!!!" claim. As to the rest of your claims, I will point out once again that your region was absolutely crawling with the world's press during the spill. Your claims have not been echoed by any of that world press. You do have a habit of using what looks like hyperbole to make your point. I'm not calling you a liar. I do think that you exagerrate things. To read your posts you would think that the US government is actively working with BP to poison the citizenry of your region and covering it up. You paint pictures of shady helicoptors and evil corporate Dr' Evils. It sounds like a James Bond plot. Your Reagan thing is just wrong. I was a child when Reagan was president. All I really know about him are hazy childhood memories of him on TV, what my parents have told me and what the press reports. I don't hold him in any particularly high regard. Your aversion to him doesn't piss me off in the least.

Well I apologize for that part, Bane. I meant this part of the Gulf Coast that I am talking about. I think you realize that now. And I also said that Houston is NOT on the Gulf Coast, MOST OF IT IS ABOUT 30 MILES INLAND, in the same post you are talking about. So reread that part of the post and realize that if you had read that the first time, and taken it in context, I think it would be easy to deduce that I meant MY region of the Gulf Coast. Locally to us the Gulf Coast is the Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida panhandle, the Northeastern Gulf. Sorry that our local usage muddied my meaning, but again, if you read that whole paragraph I think it's clear enough that I meant you are 350 miles from HERE.

I will reiterate that I am not exaggerating in the least about this. USAF C130s DID spray Corexit on land and sea for weeks after they seakled the leak and started saying that 80% of the oil was magically gone. ABC News has refuted that claim, and they are pretty much up Obama's ass otherwise. How does BP get the use of Air Force C130s without Federal permission?

The world press were kept at a distance during the spill. It was enacted a felony with a 3-year prison sentence to come within 65 feet of a piece of boom or a working vessel, no pics. What you saw came from areas where they were allowed, and there were many places they were NOT allowed. CNN for one was pretty vocal about that.

I don't recall any national attention being paid to the increase in Houston's crime rate after Katrina. Maybe you did because it was in your town and pertinent to your life. But because I didn't see it, should I assume that you are exaggerating? You're there on the ground. I'm HERE on the ground.

[bane]

I doubt there was any national coverage about an escalation in Houston's crime rate post Katrina. It isn't of national interest, but it also isn't the kind of thing that causes the locals to rise up in an armed revolt against the government. It sucked for the locals, but otherwise, it really wasn't that big of a deal. We took care of it internally, increased funding to the police force, locked up the undesirables, problem solved, or at least, it's being solved. I'm not disputing your claims that the air force sprayed dispersant over the area. I'm also not disputing your claim that there is still plenty of oil out there. Both of those claims have been nationally reported. What I am saying is that the way you paint it, the whole thing was some kind of subversive black ops plot coordinated between the US government and BP complete with armed goons taking out anyone who may talk about it. Go back and read your posts Lerx. They sound like something cooked up in an X Files episode by the Lone Gunmen. It's probably not so much the facts as it is the way in which you present them. This discussion started because you claimed that an armed resurrection was imminent due to the types of things that are happening in your area spiced with things like "What would you do if they were poisoning YOUR family Bane!!!!!!". Come on dude. You have to agree that that's just out there. You may feel that an armed response by the citizenry is needed. If you do, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I don't believe anything of the kind is anywhere close to happening.

ETA: For what it's worth, I will apologize for getting a little carried away in busting your chops over it.

[lerxstcat]

I doubt there was any national coverage about an escalation in Houston's crime rate post Katrina. It isn't of national interest, but it also isn't the kind of thing that causes the locals to rise up in an armed revolt against the government. It sucked for the locals, but otherwise, it really wasn't that big of a deal. We took care of it internally, increased funding to the police force, locked up the undesirables, problem solved, or at least, it's being solved. I'm not disputing your claims that the air force sprayed dispersant over the area. I'm also not disputing your claim that there is still plenty of oil out there. Both of those claims have been nationally reported. What I am saying is that the way you paint it, the whole thing was some kind of subversive black ops plot coordinated between the US government and BP complete with armed goons taking out anyone who may talk about it. Go back and read your posts Lerx. They sound like something cooked up in an X Files episode by the Lone Gunmen. It's probably not so much the facts as it is the way in which you present them. This discussion started because you claimed that an armed resurrection was imminent due to the types of things that are happening in your area spiced with things like "What would you do if they were poisoning YOUR family Bane!!!!!!". Come on dude. You have to agree that that's just out there. You may feel that an armed response by the citizenry is needed. If you do, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I don't believe anything of the kind is anywhere close to happening.

I don't see it as imminent so much as that if current trends continue and these kinds of things happen in other parts of the country, it will become much more obvious that we have no real say in our government, no matter which party is in power, because big business owns ALL of our politicians.

It's happening here, Bane. I don't think the government plotted it with BP beforehand. I DO think that the government let BP do whatever the fuck it wanted to do, and it is hard for me to understand why they let that well leak unimpeded for almost 3 months, just spraying dispersants on it and on the region. The fix they did, capping the well, could have been done in the first week, it's simple plumbing.

Why they let a huge part of the Gulf be fouled instead is still a mystery to me. I know people who were going through 30-day contacts in a week because of the chemicals in the air - not one, but many. I'm not making it up and I'm not exaggerating it. The news you are getting underplays it, mostly because since the seafood industry is now dead for years, they are trying to get tourism back up and running. The beaches are still full of tarballs though, lots of diluted dispersed oil and chemicals in huge areas of the Gulf, still tar mats in the marshes. It's being downplayed but the locals still see it everyday.

BP could not cover things up to this degree without Federal complicity. They may not have planned it ahead of time, but the Feds sure have helped cover up. Admiral Allen of the Coast Guard - recently retired, but Obama still named him the government's point man - habitually says "We" when referring to BP, not the government.

[bane]

I don't dispute that big business has far more influence on our government than is appropriate. That's not exactly news. I don't think that big business "owns" them though. A few perhaps, Cheney comes to mind. Politicians will do what they can to return favors, but at the end of the day most of them are far more concerned with covering their own asses than they are in furthering business interests.

There is more at stake with the BP spill than just BP's interest. Tourism and the effect on the local economy plays a huge role in it. Of course they are going to try and downplay it, but your own local and state governments, business leaders and chambers of commerce have as much to do with that as anybody else. Drawing undue attention to the ongoing problem isn't in your own best interest. Your economy has experienced a bit of a boost due to all the people down there working on the cleanup, but reporting that the beaches are covered in oil will just further kill tourism and give more ammo to the enviro folks pushing for more than just a moratorium. Lets face it, that region doesn't have a hell of a lot more going for it than oil, fishing and tourism. Nothing can be done about the fishing issue right now, but a little propaganda may just salvage the other two. With that in mind, wouldn't you think that the government is doing exactly what they are supposed to do?

[lerxstcat]

I don't dispute that big business has far more influence on our government than is appropriate. That's not exactly news. I don't think that big business "owns" them though. A few perhaps, Cheney comes to mind. Politicians will do what they can to return favors, but at the end of the day most of them are far more concerned with covering their own asses than they are in furthering business interests.

There is more at stake with the BP spill than just BP's interest. Tourism and the effect on the local economy plays a huge role in it. Of course they are going to try and downplay it, but your own local and state governments, business leaders and chambers of commerce have as much to do with that as anybody else. Drawing undue attention to the ongoing problem isn't in your own best interest. Your economy has experienced a bit of a boost due to all the people down there working on the cleanup, but reporting that the beaches are covered in oil will just further kill tourism and give more ammo to the enviro folks pushing for more than just a moratorium. Lets face it, that region doesn't have a hell of a lot more going for it than oil, fishing and tourism. Nothing can be done about the fishing issue right now, but a little propaganda may just salvage the other two. With that in mind, wouldn't you think that the government is doing exactly what they are supposed to do?

Well bringing tourism back is a good thing - and the areas around the casinos are looking pretty good. Other areas are ignored and since the government has said the oil is gone the crews - which were mostly NOT locals, btw, so their employment didn't stimulate the economy - are mostly gone even when oil is reported in no n-touristy areas.

The bigest thing I am upset with about the government besides letting BP security keep ONLY people with cameras off the beach, and not forcing BP toi seal that well 3 months earlier, is that they backpedaled on the Corexit.

The EPA said stop spraying Corexit. BP said okay and kept doing it. Then EPA said "well, use the more recent version at least, not the older more toxic version". Again, BP said yes but continued to spray the older version. Finally the point came, as I said, where USAF C130s were spraying the stuff, not only out to sea but here on land near the beaches and marshes. People with respiratory ailments or vision problems are acutely affected while the government says, "Oh, nothing's wrong".

They said that about Agent Orange in Vietnam.

So the government definitely IS in collusion. Their planes are spraying the stuff, their admiral refers to BP as "we". I know, from folowing links and youtubes on Facebook for months, that those links and Youtubes would be there when first posted, and gone within the hour. There was a concerted effort to erase evidence pointing to the collusion. There is a concerted effort to bribe, threaten or discredit any scientists who report evidence contrary to the government/BP party line.

And remember early on when the government and BP had 2 separate stories? That seemed to change somewhere along the way.

They're all on the gravy train - either bribed, or maybe blackmailed, who knows? But the government seemed to basically fall into line with BP's desires early on.

[bane]

I don't know Lerx. I've seen stories from scientists that dispute BP claims. I recall reading one as late as a couple of weeks ago about all the oil that is still suspended underwater. You seem to be implying that the rest of the country thinks this thing is all over? Everything I've seen or read leads me to believe that the cleanup is still actively going. I heard a news report just a few days ago about the 100's of ships that are still out there chasing oil. As to the cleanup crews not boosting the local economy, they don't have to be local to boost it dude. They're paying for hotel rooms and eating at restaurants. That's local income that wouldn't be there otherwise. I saw something on Yahoo about that just yesterday (maybe the day before, but recently). It was an article about how tourism was pretty much dead but that the economy hadn't completely tanked due to the influx of cleanup worker dollars. I've got no comment on the dispersant chemicals. I've seen conflicting stories on that one. It's tough to know whether they made the right or the wrong call using it. Anyway, bottom line is, the national press isn't squashing this thing as much as you seem to think. It isn't front page news every day any more, but there is still plenty of press about it.

[lerxstcat]

I don't know Lerx. I've seen stories from scientists that dispute BP claims. I recall reading one as late as a couple of weeks ago about all the oil that is still suspended underwater. You seem to be implying that the rest of the country thinks this thing is all over? Everything I've seen or read leads me to believe that the cleanup is still actively going. I heard a news report just a few days ago about the 100's of ships that are still out there chasing oil. As to the cleanup crews not boosting the local economy, they don't have to be local to boost it dude. They're paying for hotel rooms and eating at restaurants. That's local income that wouldn't be there otherwise. I saw something on Yahoo about that just yesterday (maybe the day before, but recently). It was an article about how tourism was pretty much dead but that the economy hadn't completely tanked due to the influx of cleanup worker dollars. I've got no comment on the dispersant chemicals. I've seen conflicting stories on that one. It's tough to know whether they made the right or the wrong call using it. Anyway, bottom line is, the national press isn't squashing this thing as much as you seem to think. It isn't front page news every day any more, but there is still plenty of press about it.

I'm not saying the coverup is 100% effective, Bane. And yes, there are still boats out there looking for oil. Too bad we could not get them to send those boats to places near shore where we found oil. A lot of those boats humming around are for show, and they are reducing or abandoning the efforts in our area near beaches or marshes. But they are trying to cover things up. Scientists have recounted BP trying to hire them so they could make them sign nondisclosure agreements - shut them up about their findings.

I do know the national media is still covering it, but they are seeing scenes basically orchestrated for them. They are now stonewalling payment of even claims they have acknowledged, payments due in July are still outstanding in September. Yet they spend a million a week on commercials saying they're in it for the duration even as they stop paying people with claims and even people who worked in the Vessels of Opportunity program finding oil, laying out boom and such. I don't know if national news has covered these things, the locals have - but many other things they don't cover.

Two tactics, bribery and intimidation, are vbeing followed by BP, and to an extent the federal government. I have been pretty positive about the current administration up until this crisis. But the way the government and our representatrives of both parties have handled it leaves me with no trust for our elected representatives. They are owqned by big business in general, and in this case BP in particular. They made a little token noise and then let us be gutted and gassed.

Here's a story I just came across on Facebook:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerry-cop ... =fb&src=sp

Don't dismiss it just because it's the huffington Post, just read the article.