Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by vanitybinge »

Al Jazeera wrote:On the morning she was shot, Giffords was hosting a "Congress on the Corner" event - something she advertised on to her constituents as an opportunity to meet her and to discuss their concerns.

Chris Patyk, programme director of Tucson's KNST radio station, told Al Jazeera that Giffords is known for being "very personable" and that "it is easy to gain access and speak to Representative Giffords at an event like this, and that is why this news is all the more harrowing".

Giffords focused on immigration reform, military issues, stem cell research and alternative energy, as well as being a supporters of gun rights, while serving in Congress. She was married to US astronaut Mark Kelly.

'Vitriolic political rhetoric'

Sheriff Dupnik pointed to the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country as he denounced the shooting.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," the sheriff said.

The reaction to the shooting rippled across the country as Americans were aghast at the sight of such a violent attack on a sitting member of Congress.

The shooting cast a pall over Washington, where Congress called of a key vote over healthcare reform next week, as politicians of all stripes denounced the shooting as a horrific and senseless act of violence. Obama dispatched FBI director Robert Mueller to Arizona.

Capitol police asked members of Congress to be more vigilant about security in the wake of the shooting, and some politicians expressed hope that the killing spree serves as a wakeup call at a time when the political climate has become so emotionally charged.

Law enforcement officials said members of Congress reported 42 cases of threats or violence in the first three months of 2010, nearly three times the 15 cases reported during the same period a year earlier. Nearly all dealt with the health care bill, and Giffords was among the targets.

Police say the shooter was in custody, and was identified by people familiar with the investigation as Jared Lee Loughner, 22. Pima County Sheriff's officials said he used a 9mm pistol to carry out the attack.

The suspect's exact motivation was not clear, but a former classmate described Loughner as a marijuana-smoking loner who had rambling beliefs about the world.

The Army said he tried to enlist in December 2008 but was rejected for reasons the military did not provide.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/ameri ... 75413.html










So who do you want to shoot?
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by dtmfs »

Image

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2010/0 ... -violence/

The real problem is Palin is obviously not the only one to use such imagry, As We've all known for quite some time, hypocrisy at it's finest.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by tin00can »

Yeah, that's exactly the same.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by KneelandBobDylan »

When conservative "True Believers" are fed a steady diet of extraordinary warnings intended to induce a paranoiac, panicked fear, as in, "They're Destroying America!", "They Want to End Your Liberty! or " Health Care Reform is the End of America! -- and simultaneously fed a diet of suggestions that the solution is simply to do away with them (see Sean Hannity's recent bit of eliminationist "humor"), then what other outcome should you expect?
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by WhiteHouseSubsAC »

Image

An ad by Al Gore after The Unabomber was arrested.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by WhiteHouseSubsAC »

tin00can wrote:Yeah, that's exactly the same.
It doesn't matter. Gun imagery was used in a political ad.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by tin00can »

WhiteHouseSubsAC wrote:
tin00can wrote:Yeah, that's exactly the same.
It doesn't matter. Gun imagery was used in a political ad.


First off...I said "exactly the same." It's similar, yes. Second...was that bullseye added in with the enlarged quote? It doesn't look like it fits with the rest of the picture.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by WhiteHouseSubsAC »

tin00can wrote:
WhiteHouseSubsAC wrote:
tin00can wrote:Yeah, that's exactly the same.
It doesn't matter. Gun imagery was used in a political ad.


First off...I said "exactly the same." It's similar, yes. Second...was that bullseye added in with the enlarged quote? It doesn't look like it fits with the rest of the picture.
Nah, I think that was added for emphasis. The whole thing DOES show that gun/target imagery is pretty much ubiquitous in ad campaigns though.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by vlad »

Oh somebody has been having fun with photoshop....if someone is trying to pass that off as a screencap... :roll: Anyone remotely familiar with Kos's layout knows that even isn't possible.

Here's the original front page diary:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25 ... 511/541568

And here is the offending comment (note the complete lack of "illustrations")....
Not all of these people will get or even deserve primaries, but this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district.

edit: Ah, I see, it's from RedState, Erick Erickson's baby. The same Erick Erickson that said he'd meet any census/ACS worker at the door with his wife's shotgun. Just sayin'. A note, when Red State started there were some thoughtful conservatives on the founding board. Most of them bailed early on because it went to the crazy side. I joined right from the start because it promised to be a place where intelligent debate could happen. Not so. Though I still, years later get e-mail stuff from them. :)

Oh and, while trolling through Kos to find a false equivalent...they had to go back 2 1/2 years to find it?
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by WhiteHouseSubsAC »

vlad wrote: Oh and, while trolling through Kos to find a false equivalent...they had to go back 2 1/2 years to find it?
It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it...y'know, for America.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by vlad »

WhiteHouseSubsAC wrote:
vlad wrote: Oh and, while trolling through Kos to find a false equivalent...they had to go back 2 1/2 years to find it?
It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it...y'know, for America.
True. And I commend them for their diligence!!! Imagine the horror of sifting through 2 and 1/2 years of the Great Orange Satan to find something.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by dtmfs »

Not sure about the Daily KOS thing I saw it in a different thread, in the other link theres a picture with bulls-eyes on republican districts made by democrats, So why is it wrong for Palin to use Cross-hairs but fine for dems to use bulls-eyes? Shouldn't they both just fucking stop instead of playing this childish little blame game?
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by EvilMadman »

dtmfs wrote:Image

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2010/0 ... -violence/

The real problem is Palin is obviously not the only one to use such imagry, As We've all known for quite some time, hypocrisy at it's finest.
Image

Image

Hey, does "we'll bring a gun to the fight", count as "violent rhetoric"? :?
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by bane »

dtmfs wrote:Not sure about the Daily KOS thing I saw it in a different thread, in the other link theres a picture with bulls-eyes on republican districts made by democrats, So why is it wrong for Palin to use Cross-hairs but fine for dems to use bulls-eyes? Shouldn't they both just fucking stop instead of playing this childish little blame game?
They should, but what fun would that be? It's much more interesting to stir up your base and call the other side "evil". Both of them do it, and both of them are hypocritical douche-bags for it.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by tin00can »

EvilMadman wrote:
Image

Hey, does "we'll bring a gun to the fight", count as "violent rhetoric"? :?


Wow! "I want you to argue with them and get in their face!" That's harsh.

Yes, I'm ignoring the quote above that.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by tin00can »

WhiteHouseSubsAC wrote:
vlad wrote: Oh and, while trolling through Kos to find a false equivalent...they had to go back 2 1/2 years to find it?
It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it...y'know, for America.



I salute your patriotism.

Gonna be an interesting day on the cable news stations.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by EvilMadman »

tin00can wrote:
EvilMadman wrote:
Image

Hey, does "we'll bring a gun to the fight", count as "violent rhetoric"? :?


Wow! "I want you to argue with them and get in their face!" That's harsh.

Yes, I'm ignoring the quote above that.
Image

Image

Looks like someone has a problem controlling their "violent rhetoric"? :P :lol:
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by ROADHEAD »

I didn't read this whole thread, but wasn't an ENTIRE MOVIE made about assassinating GWBush?

And after this weekend I realized that I, like JakeY, didn't know how to spell Tucson. The correct spelling makes no sense.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by Skate4RnR »

I think the site makes Palin look like the goddamn American hero she is.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by JakeYonkel »

ROADHEAD wrote:And after this weekend I realized that I, like JakeY, didn't know how to spell Tucson. The correct spelling makes no sense.
Don't credit me on that, it was a direct cut & paste from CNN.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by Cliffenstein »

vlad wrote:I hunt...I wouldn't put a target on a human being, especially on a national political blog.
You might not, but the Democrat National Committee in 2004 felt pretty good about doing it (as have many, MANY other Democrats throughout the years):

Democrat's "Target for Democratic Gains in 2004" map:
Image

Sarah Palin's 2010 map:
Image

And here's the most important part...using either map wasn't remotely a wrong thing to do.

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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by tin00can »

Hey Cliff: nice job cutting off the names at the bottom of the second pic. No, that doesn't change things at all.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by tin00can »

ROADHEAD wrote:I didn't read this whole thread, but wasn't an ENTIRE MOVIE made about assassinating GWBush?

And after this weekend I realized that I, like JakeY, didn't know how to spell Tucson. The correct spelling makes no sense.


So you didn't read this thread, but you wanted to comment anyway?
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by Luminiferous »

Cliffenstein wrote:
vlad wrote:I hunt...I wouldn't put a target on a human being, especially on a national political blog.
You might not, but the Democrat National Committee in 2004 felt pretty good about doing it (as have many, MANY other Democrats throughout the years):

Democrat's "Target for Democratic Gains in 2004" map:
Image

Sarah Palin's 2010 map:
Image

And here's the most important part...using either map wasn't remotely a wrong thing to do.

Time To Take A Stand
Behind Enemy Lines

later...Cliffy
Actually Cliffy, you left out the most important part where congress people's NAMES were on Palin's "map."

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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by Cliffenstein »

How America's elite hijacked a massacre to take revenge on Sarah Palin
Tom Leonard / The Daily Mail / January 11, 2011

On a sunny Saturday morning outside the local Safeway in Tucson,­ Arizona, a man pulls out a powerful handgun, opens fire - and engulfs the U.S. in a political ­firestorm.

Six people were killed on ­Saturday, including a nine-year-old girl. But it was the fact that the target was a ­Democratic congresswoman - who is fighting for her life - which has sparked such a furious row, not, as one might expect, over the nature of America's gun laws, but over the vitriolic nature of its politics.

Defenders of gun rights like to say it's not the gun that's dangerous, but the user. Now the argument swirling across the U.S. is whether it’s not the user but violent political ­rhetoric that may have ­ultimately pulled the trigger.

In short, did the killer Jared Loughner - who has a history of mental instability and has made a series of bizarre postings on the internet - go out looking to kill because political voices told him to?

Could the inflammatory ­language used by some Right-wing politicians - in ­particular, Sarah Palin - have encouraged the killer to act as he did?

That's the question at the heart of a febrile political blame game that started even before the most basic details had emerged about the background and possible motivation of the gunman. Already it has drawn in politicians, commentators, police and even the families of the victims.

Gabrielle Giffords was a Democrat and much - but not all - of the badly spelt, incoherent YouTube jumble that passed for the politics of her attacker was broadly 'Right-wing'.

As a result, many liberal ­commentators and establishment figures have leapt at the opportunity to blame conservative politicians.

The rush to make political capital out of a mass shooting shows just how nasty U.S. ­politics has become. Under Barack Obama, America is more polarised than it has been for 40 years.

Conservatives have come to despise liberals, and vice versa, with an intensity the like of which few can recall. Right-wing anger with the high-spending Obama administration's handling of the financial crisis, a weak economy and high unemployment has prompted thousands of ordinary Americans to break away from conventional two-party politics to support the Tea Party movement with its call for small government.

As the name (a reference to the 1773 Boston Tea Party) implies, Tea Party supporters see their movement as rooted in the rebellion against George III, and the language has ­inevitably been full of ­military metaphor.

In the fractious lead-up to last November's congressional mid-term elections - which saw a major victory for the Right - there were scuffles outside town halls, occasional brandishing of firearms at ­rallies and reports of rising membership of armed militias, 'weekend warriors' training for the day they believe will come when they will have to defend the U.S. Constitution.

Political leaders with an ear for the populist mood ­harnessed that militancy.

As the temperature level in American political debate shot into the red, Washington ­security chiefs reported that threats against Congressmen and women had tripled in a year, many of them coming from furious opponents of the Obama health care reforms.

In Maryland, an effigy of ­Democrat Representative Frank Kratovil was found hanging from a mock gallows.

Gabrielle Giffords' Tucson office had been vandalized — the door shattered, possibly by shotgun pellets — after the healthcare vote.

Rahm Emanuel, Mr Obama's former chief of staff and a ­figure compared to Labour's Alastair Campbell, once said: 'You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.'

And those on his side of the political divide have clearly seen the Tucson tragedy as an opportunity to score points and settle scores.

None more so than with Sarah Palin, a politician who is almost as divisive as the President. The former Republican vice-presidential contender has become a spiritual figurehead for many Tea Party supporters, but is loathed by many on the Left.

So it was that within minutes of the Tucson shooting, anti-Palin internet bloggers and Twitter users were highlighting a so-called 'target map' Mrs Palin had posted on her Facebook page last March.

Controversially, it used gunstyle crosshair targets to flag up Democrat politicians whom Palin felt could be vulnerable at the polls: Miss Giffords was one.

Despite the lack of any ­evidence that the Tucson gunman had supported Mrs Palin, let alone seen the graphic, ­critics — including senior ­Democrats in Congress — have decreed she is somehow culpable.

Yet her critics choose to ­forget the crosshairs could be all a part of her image as a hunter of big game. (It is worth noting, too, that Miss Giffords had been photographed ­handling a semi-automatic weapon — no doubt aware it would appeal to a certain ­voting constituency.)

Palin's favourite maxim — inherited from her father — is 'Don't Retreat, Reload', a ­typically bullish phrase she's been trotting out for months as an injunction on the faithful to stick to their political principles.

Since the Tucson shooting, Left-wing critics have leapt on the words as some kind of proof that she was encouraging supporters to use real weapons.

Other far more loaded Republican comments are being quoted by those keen to make a connection between the ­Tucson shooting and inflammatory political rhetoric.

Last year, Sharron Angle, a Tea Party favourite who stood unsuccessfully for senator in Nevada, warned that people might seek 'Second Amendment remedies' — referring to the right to bear arms — if they didn't get what they wanted from Congress.

Then there was a campaign poster produced by Jesse Kelly, a former marine who stood against Miss Giffords last year.

It was headlined: 'Get on ­Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.' It was pure Wild West hokum, but was it really incitement to violence, as is being suggested by the Left?

Liberals have made much of the words of the Tucson sheriff, Clarence Dupnik, who yesterday launched into a diatribe about the 'vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government'.

Even the actress and activist Jane Fonda waded into the row with a succession of internet tweets blaming Mrs Palin, the Tea Party and Glenn Beck, a rabble-rousing broadcaster on Fox News, for the shooting.

The Tea Party leaders have been rushing to condemn the shooting and distance themselves from the gunman.

Whether they should really have to do so is another matter. The reality is that there is as yet no evidence that the political Right, and the Tea Party in ­particular, has — as its opponents say — 'blood on its hands' over the Tucson murders.

While some liberals have slyly implied that Loughner was a Tea Party supporter, former classmates remember him as being 'Left-wing' and 'liberal'.

Another said he was 'on his own planet', which seems nearer the mark. No existing political organization - including the Tea Party - comes close to championing Loughner's deranged world view.

Paranoid and nihilistic (he kept a miniature altar with a replica human skull in his backyard), he had clearly surfed the wilder shores of political views on the internet, preaching about the evils of religion, and even picking up and espousing a theory that the government was using grammar as a form of mind control.

History shows how dangerous it is to try to second-guess the motives of political assassins.

John Hinckley shot Ronald Reagan because he was obsessed with the actress Jodie Foster, not because he hated Right-wingers.

Likewise, Lynette Fromme tried to shoot Gerald Ford because she revered the cult killer Charles Manson.

But those lessons from ­history won't stop some Democrats from exploiting the shooting of a nine-year-old girl and five others at the weekend with precisely the sort of foam-flecked over-reaction for which they love to condemn their opponents on the Right.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by dtmfs »

Name or no names they're extremley similiar and I just got done watching a liberal hack actually say Democrats have never used such imagry and that Palin said "Go out and shoot people", Paul Krugman said the left would never use those kind of images either. As usual it's "We can do it all we want but Don't You dare!" Fuck both of em'.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by MurrayFiend »

dtmfs, it's interesting that most of your posts on this subject over the past few days have been something to the effect of, "Both sides are fucked, but I'm going to specifically cite examples of liberals acting crazy." Maybe you really are a moderate and just feel the need to counter all the anti-right-wing rhetoric and provide some balance, or maybe...
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by dtmfs »

MurrayFiend wrote:dtmfs, it's interesting that most of your posts on this subject over the past few days have been something to the effect of, "Both sides are fucked, but I'm going to specifically cite examples of liberals acting crazy." Maybe you really are a moderate and just feel the need to counter all the anti-right-wing rhetoric and provide some balance, or maybe...
it's because 99% of what i'm seeing on the news is it's all the right wings fault, no ones bringing up the lefts hypocricy at all. It's also irresponsible as hell to start to point fingers before the smoke clears and all the facts are known, and they're both doing that and acting like children. I'm not letting the right off the hook, they're playing the game too, I can specifically cite examples of consevatives acting crazy too, just not in this particular case yet, well with the exception of Palin trying to backtrack about what the symbols really are, She should fucking own it.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by HeavyMetalZombie666 »

During Columbine the right and left had their scapegoats. The left used gun control as an issue among other things. The right attacked the entertainment industry and made a martyr out of two young female students by claiming they were murdered for saying they believed in god and it was later found out to be false. This young man in Arizona is mostly being attacked by the left. The politicians are blaming political groups on the right and politicians on the right.
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Re: Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tuscon grocery

Post by lerxstcat »

I posted on a Facebook thread where the OP basically called for everyone to take a step back and chill on the rhetoric a bit, which of course I echoed those sentiments. Well I live in Mississippi so a lot of folks are conservatives and they came back with "Oh, HELL NO!! Freedom of speech is more important than people getting shot by a nut"

So I said "What if you were in a bar facing a crazy badass mofo who would beat you to a fucking pulp if you said the same thing? Would you insist on your freedom of speech THEN?"

Dude straight said, "Oh no, nobody would speak up then! But I'm not gonna get shot if I say it online, some liberals somewhere else will!" Chickenhawks of another kind! And a bunch of spineless motherfuckers were chiming in in agreement with that viewpoint, and saw nothing wrong with it.

We need to dial this shit back - we ALL do. Fact is we have gotten way out of hand and if we don't dial it down there's gonna be more shooting on both sides before you know it. I mean leftists are not big on guns, but if they see righties shooting them down repeatedly, they're gonna get their own guns eventually and start shooting too. So why don't we step back from this abyss instead?
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