Metal Sludge Gossip Board

Asked about the open letter of 47 US Senators to Iranian leaders, the Iranian Foreign Minister, Dr. Javad Zarif, responded that "in our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy. It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history. This indicates that like Netanyahu, who considers peace as an existential threat, some are opposed to any agreement, regardless of its content.

Zarif expressed astonishment that some members of US Congress find it appropriate to write to leaders of another country against their own President and administration. He pointed out that from reading the open letter, it seems that the authors not only do not understand international law, but are not fully cognizant of the nuances of their own Constitution when it comes to presidential powers in the conduct of foreign policy.

Foreign Minister Zarif added that "I should bring one important point to the attention of the authors and that is, the world is not the United States, and the conduct of inter-state relations is governed by international law, and not by US domestic law. The authors may not fully understand that in international law, governments represent the entirety of their respective states, are responsible for the conduct of foreign affairs, are required to fulfil the obligations they undertake with other states and may not invoke their internal law as justification for failure to perform their international obligations.

The Iranian Foreign Minister added that "Change of administration does not in any way relieve the next administration from international obligations undertaken by its predecessor in a possible agreement about Iran`s peaceful nuclear program." He continued "I wish to enlighten the authors that if the next administration revokes any agreement with the stroke of a pen, as they boast, it will have simply committed a blatant violation of international law.

He emphasized that if the current negotiation with P5+1 result in a Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, it will not be a bilateral agreement between Iran and the US, but rather one that will be concluded with the participation of five other countries, including all permanent members of the Security Council, and will also be endorsed by a Security Council resolution.

Zarif expressed the hope that his comments "may enrich the knowledge of the authors to recognize that according to international law, Congress may not modify the terms of the agreement at any time as they claim, and if Congress adopts any measure to impede its implementation, it will have committed a material breach of US obligations.

The Foreign Minister also informed the authors that majority of US international agreements in recent decades are in fact what the signatories describe as "mere executive agreements" and not treaties ratified by the Senate.

He reminded them that "their letter in fact undermines the credibility of thousands of such mere executive agreements that have been or will be entered into by the US with various other governments.

Zarif concluded by stating that "the Islamic Republic of Iran has entered these negotiations in good faith and with the political will to reach an agreement, and it is imperative for our counterparts to prove similar good faith and political will in order to make an agreement possible."

https://twitter.com/JZarif/status/57513 ... 20/photo/1
http://en.mfa.ir/index.aspx?siteid=3&fk ... iew=330948

Just imagine how much republicans would be screaming if the democrats had done something like this to Bush.

tin00can wrote:Just imagine how much republicans would be screaming if the democrats had done something like this to Bush.

They would have had them thrown in Guantanamo.

I don't understand how this doesn't classify them as traitors.

SebastianLeeDanzig wrote:Fortunately, I don't know any real-life Republicans, but I'm curious how this is received. How are rightwingers trying to defend this farce? Are people sitting on Facebook endorsing the senators' brave actions to defend America's freedom from Obama's evil plan of turning Iran into a nuclear super power?

This is America. Not too many are aware of it and the ones that are are more concerned about Obama wanting to take away their guns.

Again, I don't know how this doesn't classify as treason. These are elected leaders/representatives of this country, that went behind the Commander In Chief's back to sabotage his efforts with a country that is looked at as an enemy.

That fits the definition with Article III Section 3 of the US Constitution.

I'm also not sure how you could prosecute the perpetrators. Boehner/McConnell would just cause another Government Shutdown.

killeverything wrote:

SebastianLeeDanzig wrote:Fortunately, I don't know any real-life Republicans, but I'm curious how this is received. How are rightwingers trying to defend this farce? Are people sitting on Facebook endorsing the senators' brave actions to defend America's freedom from Obama's evil plan of turning Iran into a nuclear super power?

This is America. Not too many are aware of it and the ones that are are more concerned about Obama wanting to take away their guns.

Again, I don't know how this doesn't classify as treason. These are elected leaders/representatives of this country, that went behind the Commander In Chief's back to sabotage his efforts with a country that is looked at as an enemy.

That fits the definition with Article III Section 3 of the US Constitution.

I'm also not sure how you could prosecute the perpetrators. Boehner/McConnell would just cause another Government Shutdown.

You couldn't "prosecute the perpetrators" because it isn't treason. Treason is specifically defined in the Constitution for exactly the reason you're casually invoking it here: to prevent governments from prosecuting people for democratic dissent. Treason must constitute "levying war" or "adhering to their enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort". Writing an open letter questioning the legitimacy of treaty negotiations is none of these things. It also wasn't treason when Nancy Pelosi met with Assad years ago and Republicans accused her of treason. It also wasn't treason when Democratic members of Congress criticized the Iraq War, and they were accused of undermining The Holy Leader President. 99% of the time, accusing people of treason really means accusing people of disagreeing with you.

Is the Logan Act a factor, Buttnoid?

Danzig in the Dark wrote:Is the Logan Act a factor, Buttnoid?

No, The Logan Act is mostly unenforceable under current First Amendment case law.

The GOP is playing it cheap and dirty. They are very frightened about the next general election. How sad for them. Most voters can see right through this shit.
I can't wait for Bill O'Reilly to start stumping for GOP candidates.

SebastianLeeDanzig wrote:

The Iranian Foreign Minister added that "Change of administration does not in any way relieve the next administration from international obligations undertaken by its predecessor in a possible agreement about Iran`s peaceful nuclear program." He continued "I wish to enlighten the authors that if the next administration revokes any agreement with the stroke of a pen, as they boast, it will have simply committed a blatant violation of international law."

It's truly sad when another country knows the laws better than the elected Republican officials do..

Luminiferous wrote:

SebastianLeeDanzig wrote:

The Iranian Foreign Minister added that "Change of administration does not in any way relieve the next administration from international obligations undertaken by its predecessor in a possible agreement about Iran`s peaceful nuclear program." He continued "I wish to enlighten the authors that if the next administration revokes any agreement with the stroke of a pen, as they boast, it will have simply committed a blatant violation of international law."

It's truly sad when another country knows the laws better than the elected Republican officials do..

Just another example of Congress' letting their hate for Obama overpower any last drop of professionalism, personal dignity, love of country and plain ole common sense they may have had left. What they haven't addressed is what they plan to do about the UK, France, Russia, China and Germany who are also working with the US on the agreement.

Fuckin' bunch of maroons, man. I'm so embarrassed by them.

European allies join criticism of GOP’s Iran letter

European allies are joining the Obama administration in criticizing Republican congressional interjection into nuclear negotiations with Iran, saying that an open letter from Republican senators to Iranian leaders has been counterproductive and comes at a particularly sensitive time in the talks.

“Suddenly, Iran can say to us: ‘Are your proposals actually trustworthy if 47 senators say that no matter what the government agrees to, we can subsequently take it off the table?’ ” German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said during a visit to Washington.

“This is no small matter we’re talking about,” Steinmeier warned in remarks at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “This is not just an issue of American domestic politics.”

Germany, France and Britain, along with Russia and China, are U.S. negotiating partners in the Iran talks.

Meanwhile, Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, took aim at Washington, saying that political divisions in the United States made Iranian negotiators question the Obama administration’s ability to follow through with any agreement.

“Of course I am worried, because the other side is known for opacity, deceit and backstabbing,” Khamenei said Thursday, according to Iran’s Mehr News Agency.

European allies are alarmed by U.S. political tensions on a host of foreign policy issues.

President Obama has so far resisted demands from a bipartisan congressional majority to send lethal military equipment to Ukraine. Germany and France, which helped negotiate a sputtering cease-fire between the Ukrainian government and Russian-backed separatists, have said Western arms shipments would only escalate the conflict and undermine a possible solution.

[Who are the seven GOP senators who didn’t sign?]

Republicans, in turn, have struck back at European criticism. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) said that what he considered U.S. and European capitulation to Iran was reminiscent of Western appeasement of Adolf Hitler.

“I believe we are at a moment like Munich in 1938,” Cruz said on the Hugh Hewitt radio show on Thursday.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) extended the World War II metaphor to Ukraine in a direct attack on Steinmeier.“The foreign minister of Germany is the same guy that refuses, in his government, to enact any restrictions on the behavior of [Russian President] Vladimir Putin, who is slaughtering Ukrainians as we speak. He has no credibility.”

Steinmeier, McCain said, “is in the Neville Chamberlain school of diplomacy,” a reference to the British prewar prime minister who signed the 1938 Munich agreement conceding the Sudetenland region of Czechoslovakia to Hitler’s Germany.

Secretary of State John F. Kerry told lawmakers Wednesday that the letter to Iran by 47 Republican senators “risks undermining the confidence that foreign governments in thousands of important agreements commit to. It purports to tell the world that if you want to have any confidence in your dealings with America, they have to negotiate with 535 members of Congress.”

The letter warned Iran that any nuclear agreement signed by Obama could be revoked “by the stroke of a pen” by any future president, and that Congress could modify its terms “at any time.”

Some of the letter’s backers have sought political cover as they were flooded with broad-based rebukes.

On Friday, one signer, Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) told Bloomberg journalists that he now questions the decision to address the letter to Iran’s leaders.

“I suppose the only regret is who it’s addressed to,” Johnson said. “But the content of the letter . . . none whatsoever.”

[Some Republicans surprised by the backlash]

Obama further added to the White House backlash in comments reported Friday: “I am embarrassed” for the letter signers, he was quoted as saying.

“For them to address a letter to the ayatollah who, they claim, is our mortal enemy and their basic argument to them is: Don’t deal with our president because you can’t trust him to follow through on an agreement,” Obama said in an interview with Vice media that is expected to be released Monday, according to the AFP news agency.

Earlier this week, Vice President Biden called the letter “a highly misleading signal to friend and foe alike that our commander-in-chief cannot deliver on America’s commitments — a message that is as false as it is dangerous.”

Kerry and the other negotiators will meet with Iranian officials next week in Lausanne, Switzerland, for another round of talks.

The administration has said a framework for a deal must be agreed to by the end of this month if technical details are to be completed before the negotiating deadline at the end of June. Negotiators have said that deadline will not be extended.

U.S. and European officials have cited recent progress in the negotiations, while cautioning that a deal may not be possible. Outstanding issues are said to include the future status of Iran’s underground nuclear-enrichment facility at Fordow, near the city of Qom, and aspects of Iran’s nuclear research and development program.

Obama has said the goal is to block Iran’s path to a nuclear weapon in a lasting and verifiable way. Opponents have insisted that Iran’s nuclear capability — which Tehran says is designed only for legitimate, peaceful energy purposes — must be destroyed.

Even before Steinmeier’s visit on Thursday, Germany, Britain and France had repeatedly expressed concern about congressional interference in the talks. Ambassadors from the three Western European countries have been a frequent presence on Capitol Hill, trying to persuade lawmakers to hold off on new Iran sanctions or any other legislation related to the negotiations while they are underway.

Following publication of the letter Sunday night, French Ambassador Gerard Araud, a diplomat of long experience in this country and a prolific user of social media, posted a Twitter link to the letter and his own comment that “for a foreigner, Washington can be full of surprise.”

In London on Tuesday, British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond told a parliamentary committee that new legislation on Iran “could become a spanner in the works” and “have an unpredictable effect on leadership opinion and public opinion in Tehran.”

President Obama has so far resisted demands from a bipartisan congressional majority to send lethal military equipment to Ukraine. Germany and France, which helped negotiate a sputtering cease-fire between the Ukrainian government and Russian-backed separatists, have said Western arms shipments would only escalate the conflict and undermine a possible solution.

Republicans, in turn, have struck back at European criticism. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) said that what he considered U.S. and European capitulation to Iran was reminiscent of Western appeasement of Adolf Hitler.

“I believe we are at a moment like Munich in 1938,” Cruz said on the Hugh Hewitt radio show on Thursday.

Sen. John McCain extended the World War II metaphor to Ukraine in a direct attack on Steinmeier.“The foreign minister of Germany is the same guy that refuses, in his government, to enact any restrictions on the behavior of Vladimir Putin, who is slaughtering Ukrainians as we speak. He has no credibility.”

I'd be a little more discreet about fucking Hitler analogies when you're the one pushing to heavily arm blatant neo-Nazis out of backward cold war bravado. Unbelievable.

SebastianLeeDanzig wrote:

President Obama has so far resisted demands from a bipartisan congressional majority to send lethal military equipment to Ukraine. Germany and France, which helped negotiate a sputtering cease-fire between the Ukrainian government and Russian-backed separatists, have said Western arms shipments would only escalate the conflict and undermine a possible solution.

Republicans, in turn, have struck back at European criticism. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) said that what he considered U.S. and European capitulation to Iran was reminiscent of Western appeasement of Adolf Hitler.

“I believe we are at a moment like Munich in 1938,” Cruz said on the Hugh Hewitt radio show on Thursday.

Sen. John McCain extended the World War II metaphor to Ukraine in a direct attack on Steinmeier.“The foreign minister of Germany is the same guy that refuses, in his government, to enact any restrictions on the behavior of Vladimir Putin, who is slaughtering Ukrainians as we speak. He has no credibility.”

I'd be a little more discreet about fucking Hitler analogies when you're the one pushing to heavily arm blatant neo-Nazis out of backward cold war bravado. Unbelievable.

In American politics if you don't like something you automatically associate it with the Nazis and Hitler.

From the left:
"George W Bush is Hitler!"
"Bush's State Of The Union is a Nuremberg, man!"

From the right:
"Obama is Hitler!
"Obama is the Anti-Christ!"

The right can throw "Anti-Christ" in there since Obama is black and obviously hates Jesus. Now you have the political knowledge of most Americans. Bonus points if you can bring up 9/11.

Fuck both Iran and Israel. Let them handle their own problems. Last I checked we weren't the United States of Persia or the United States of the Middle East!

SebastianLeeDanzig wrote:

President Obama has so far resisted demands from a bipartisan congressional majority to send lethal military equipment to Ukraine. Germany and France, which helped negotiate a sputtering cease-fire between the Ukrainian government and Russian-backed separatists, have said Western arms shipments would only escalate the conflict and undermine a possible solution.

Republicans, in turn, have struck back at European criticism. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) said that what he considered U.S. and European capitulation to Iran was reminiscent of Western appeasement of Adolf Hitler.

“I believe we are at a moment like Munich in 1938,” Cruz said on the Hugh Hewitt radio show on Thursday.

Sen. John McCain extended the World War II metaphor to Ukraine in a direct attack on Steinmeier.“The foreign minister of Germany is the same guy that refuses, in his government, to enact any restrictions on the behavior of Vladimir Putin, who is slaughtering Ukrainians as we speak. He has no credibility.”

I'd be a little more discreet about fucking Hitler analogies when you're the one pushing to heavily arm blatant neo-Nazis out of backward cold war bravado. Unbelievable.

Tom Cotton didn't heed your advice:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/1 ... ikes-again

RATTrules wrote:Fuck both Iran and Israel. Let them handle their own problems.

It's that simple, isn't it?
You so smart!

Every time we get involved in the middle east it just makes things WORSE! Saddam knew how to handle things a LOT better. There was no ISIS when Saddam was in power and terrorism rarely occured in Iraq.

Once we messed everything up all hell has broken loose! Just STAY OUT!

SebastianLeeDanzig wrote:

Asked about the open letter of 47 US Senators to Iranian leaders, the Iranian Foreign Minister, Dr. Javad Zarif, responded that "in our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy. It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history. This indicates that like Netanyahu, who considers peace as an existential threat, some are opposed to any agreement, regardless of its content.

Zarif expressed astonishment that some members of US Congress find it appropriate to write to leaders of another country against their own President and administration. He pointed out that from reading the open letter, it seems that the authors not only do not understand international law, but are not fully cognizant of the nuances of their own Constitution when it comes to presidential powers in the conduct of foreign policy.

Foreign Minister Zarif added that "I should bring one important point to the attention of the authors and that is, the world is not the United States, and the conduct of inter-state relations is governed by international law, and not by US domestic law. The authors may not fully understand that in international law, governments represent the entirety of their respective states, are responsible for the conduct of foreign affairs, are required to fulfil the obligations they undertake with other states and may not invoke their internal law as justification for failure to perform their international obligations.

The Iranian Foreign Minister added that "Change of administration does not in any way relieve the next administration from international obligations undertaken by its predecessor in a possible agreement about Iran`s peaceful nuclear program." He continued "I wish to enlighten the authors that if the next administration revokes any agreement with the stroke of a pen, as they boast, it will have simply committed a blatant violation of international law.

He emphasized that if the current negotiation with P5+1 result in a Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, it will not be a bilateral agreement between Iran and the US, but rather one that will be concluded with the participation of five other countries, including all permanent members of the Security Council, and will also be endorsed by a Security Council resolution.

Zarif expressed the hope that his comments "may enrich the knowledge of the authors to recognize that according to international law, Congress may not modify the terms of the agreement at any time as they claim, and if Congress adopts any measure to impede its implementation, it will have committed a material breach of US obligations.

The Foreign Minister also informed the authors that majority of US international agreements in recent decades are in fact what the signatories describe as "mere executive agreements" and not treaties ratified by the Senate.

He reminded them that "their letter in fact undermines the credibility of thousands of such mere executive agreements that have been or will be entered into by the US with various other governments.

Zarif concluded by stating that "the Islamic Republic of Iran has entered these negotiations in good faith and with the political will to reach an agreement, and it is imperative for our counterparts to prove similar good faith and political will in order to make an agreement possible."

https://twitter.com/JZarif/status/57513 ... 20/photo/1
http://en.mfa.ir/index.aspx?siteid=3&fk ... iew=330948

What a disgrace. This proves the 47 "men" do not care about this country one bit.
They can be categorized as bigots, racists, elitist, and dare I say, un-american. All 47 of them should be terminated from their current job and sent to Guantanamo right away.

If they sent those 47 GOP senators to Guantanamo then Obama will NEVER close it down!