Robert Gibbs tries the "we are transparent" Jedi mind trick.

[VinnieKulick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCJK4W0EXHw

And the press corps pretty much tells him he's full of shit.

[Ugmo]

What a shitty job that must be. I hope those dudes are paid well.

[Ugmo]

Anybody know when the live coverage of the health reform debate on C-SPAN begins? Can't find it anywhere.

That's a good thing. Last thing the reconciliation negotiations need is a bunch of moronic tea partiers fucking up the process.

[SmokeyRamone]

Anybody know when the live coverage of the health reform debate on C-SPAN begins? Can't find it anywhere.

That's a good thing. Last thing the reconciliation negotiations need is a bunch of moronic tea partiers fucking up the process.

oh please, it's just one more promise our esteemed leader didn't live up to, there's no valid reason to not broadcast the debates unless Obama and and his followers have something to hide, the thought that a government would make itself less transparent, or less accessible to the people because of a group of what are essentially protesters is a frightening one, it sounds like something Bush would have done

[Ugmo]

Anybody know when the live coverage of the health reform debate on C-SPAN begins? Can't find it anywhere.

That's a good thing. Last thing the reconciliation negotiations need is a bunch of moronic tea partiers fucking up the process.

oh please, it's just one more promise our esteemed leader didn't live up to, there's no valid reason to not broadcast the debates unless Obama and and his followers have something to hide, the thought that a government would make itself less transparent, or less accessible to the people because of a group of what are essentially protesters is a frightening one, it sounds like something Bush would have done

I guess he should never have promised it then, since it's up to the Senate and the House to decide whether the public gets to watch the negotiations.

Think back to the hysteria of the summer, when douchebags all over the country showed up to make asses of themselves at town hall meetings. I think it's fine that the public doesn't get the same opportunity again now.

Also, once again it's fun to watch someone who almost certainly never voted for Obama in the first place (am I right?) crying about his broken promises.

[SmokeyRamone]

if it's shown on C-span, how would the the douchebags who interrupted the town hall meetings have the same chance to interrupt the debates? It's not like people are asking to be there, we just want the kind of open government Obama and the dems have been talking about since the Bush administration was so secretive

No, I didn't vote for Obama, but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to call him out on all his lies and empty promises, even though I didn't vote for him, one thing I really respected about his was that he said he was not for a health care mandate before he was elected, that was a blatant lie and I think it's entirely appropriate for anyone, whether they voted for him or not to call him out on it

[Ugmo]

if it's shown on C-span, how would the the douchebags who interrupted the town hall meetings have the same chance to interrupt the debates? It's not like people are asking to be there, we just want the kind of open government Obama and the dems have been talking about since the Bush administration was so secretive

No, I didn't vote for Obama, but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to call him out on all his lies and empty promises, even though I didn't vote for him, one thing I really respected about his was that he said he was not for a health care mandate before he was elected, that was a blatant lie and I think it's entirely appropriate for anyone, whether they voted for him or not to call him out on it

The Republican Congress members spent the entire year not only not making an effort to enact health care reform, but actually actively obstructing it at the bidding of those who voted for them. The fact that anything got done is due to the Democrats. So now the Republicans can suck it. Obama I guess made that promise before a bunch of crackpot tea partiers spent the summer making total asses of themselves. I guess the Congressional leadership decided they those jackasses didn't need any more ammunition for their fucktardery.

I'll reply to your other point on the other thread so it doesn't get too confusing.

[SmokeyRamone]

has it occured to anyone that maybe, just maybe, some of the Repubs are fighting Obama's health care reform because it seemingly puts the needs of big corporations before the needs of the common citizen, the insurance industry stands to make a kiling if we're all forced by law to do business with them, I'm not a republican, but it scares the hell out of me, and I sure as hell can't blame some of the repubs for feeling the same way, the democrats seem to think they know what's best for everyone and that we should all live in a nanny state where they dictate just how we spend our money and live our lives, and a lot of republicans don't agree

[Ugmo]

has it occured to anyone that maybe, just maybe, some of the Repubs are fighting Obama's health care reform because it seemingly puts the needs of big corporations before the needs of the common citizen, the insurance industry stands to make a kiling if we're all forced by law to do business with them, I'm not a republican, but it scares the hell out of me, and I sure as hell can't blame some of the repubs for feeling the same way, the democrats seem to think they know what's best for everyone and that we should all live in a nanny state where they dictate just how we spend our money and live our lives, and a lot of republicans don't agree

"Obama's health care reform" is the way it is because the Republicans wouldn't work with the Dems on it. The insurance industry stands to make a killing because 40 Republicans and a few Democrats opposed the public option (and some of those Democrats said they would support one if they thought it had the votes to pass). Again, I think you are misplacing the blame here.

Edit: And by the way, you are mischaracterizing health care reform by attributing it solely to Obama. There are currently two plans on the table, a House plan and a Senate plan, and the insurance industry indeed does not stand to make a killing with the House plan. If you're upset about the Senate plan, call your Senators and tell them to support the House plan during the reconciliation negotiations.

[Ugmo]

No worries, if "Ted Kennedys" seat goes to a Republican today it's game over.

Yep. That will be interesting too. The way I see it, if the Republicans kill health care reform again, the Dems have the entire year to hammer them for it, and may actually win seats in November rather than lose seats.

[SmokeyRamone]

has it occured to anyone that maybe, just maybe, some of the Repubs are fighting Obama's health care reform because it seemingly puts the needs of big corporations before the needs of the common citizen, the insurance industry stands to make a kiling if we're all forced by law to do business with them, I'm not a republican, but it scares the hell out of me, and I sure as hell can't blame some of the repubs for feeling the same way, the democrats seem to think they know what's best for everyone and that we should all live in a nanny state where they dictate just how we spend our money and live our lives, and a lot of republicans don't agree

"Obama's health care reform" is the way it is because the Republicans wouldn't work with the Dems on it. The insurance industry stands to make a killing because 40 Republicans and a few Democrats opposed the public option (and some of those Democrats said they would support one if they thought it had the votes to pass). Again, I think you are misplacing the blame here.

Edit: And by the way, you are mischaracterizing health care reform by attributing it solely to Obama. There are currently two plans on the table, a House plan and a Senate plan, and the insurance industry indeed does not stand to make a killing with the House plan. If you're upset about the Senate plan, call your Senators and tell them to support the House plan during the reconciliation negotiations.

I'm opposed to anything with a mandate in it, I have written my senators and my congressman indicating this, it's frightening to me that the government thinks it can force us to do business with private corporations, it's never happened before, and it's constitionally questionable, but I guess Obama is more concerned with his legacy than that pesky constition

[Ugmo]

The democrat party has a super majority in the Senate, a large majority in the house and owns the Presidency. They have nobody to blame but themselves. The Republican party cannot stop any legislation that they want to ram through.

This ignores the reality that 40 Republicans essentially opposed health care reform, while only a handful of Dems made problems. So anyone blaming the Dems is misplacing that blame.

Keep that in mind everyone!

[Ugmo]

I'm opposed to anything with a mandate in it, I have written my senators and my congressman indicating this, it's frightening to me that the government thinks it can force us to do business with private corporations, it's never happened before, and it's constitionally questionable, but I guess Obama is more concerned with his legacy than that pesky constition

I don't think it's his legacy that he's concerned about as about the 40 million uninsured (or whatever the figure) and the fiscal trainwreck that would occur if health care isn't reformed.

[VinnieKulick]

There goes Ugmo again, blaming the ones who are powerless to stop anything for fucking up 'reform'.

And, if you don't think that requiring people to purchase something isn't going to result in a huge profit for the people who are selling that 'something' then I don't know what to tell you.

The same thing happened to the insurance industry when the cash for clunkers happened. hundreds of thousands of new customers buying FULL insurance on new vehicles, instead of liability on used ones.

People not having health insurance wasn't going to bankrupt the country Ugmo, no matter how many times Obama says it will.

[Ugmo]

There goes Ugmo again, blaming the ones who are powerless to stop anything for fucking up 'reform'.

They're not powerless at all. They have the power to fillubuster indefinitely unless the Democrats can get Joe "I would like John McCain to win the 2008 election" on board with them.

Why can't you accept that?

[Ugmo]

By the way, thanks for backing me up on the Ace Frehley thread the other day. Weird how people I fight like cats and dogs with on the War Board are willing to back me up in music-related threads!

[VinnieKulick]

Ugmo, the philosophical difference in politics is just that. It isn't an indication of whether I would like a person or not. If a person can't respect another person's opinion (no matter how wrong your opinion is) they really shouldn't be arguing politics in the first place.

[Ugmo]

Ugmo, the philosophical difference in politics is just that. It isn't an indication of whether I would like a person or not. If a person can't respect another person's opinion (no matter how wrong your opinion is) they really shouldn't be arguing politics in the first place.

The standard operating procedure for me on the War Board is that pretty much every time a right-leaning Sludger starts posting here I have a huge bust-up (or several) with him before eventually burying the hatchet and becoming relatively good friends. This has happened with ZVD, L-Cat, Roxxstar, TheBottomLine, Bane to some extent (mostly had civil arguments with Bane anyway), Yonkel.... the list goes on and on. Doesn't hurt that for some reason all those guys have very similar musical taste to me.

I need to start a thread reminding myself to be civil on the War Board and have you guys bump it every time I forget!

[JakeYonkel]

Not to get all soft, but I never really had a problem with you at all, Ug. You rarely if ever resort to personal attacks, your music taste is impeccable, and you've got a sense of humor, at least outside of the War Board. I don't have to agree with what you say but you present it clearly and eloquently and that's more than can be said for a lot of people here on both sides of the spectrum, from the "Obama is a nigger" crowd to "Bush is hitler" crowd.

[Ugmo]

Not to get all soft, but I never really had a problem with you at all, Ug. You rarely if ever resort to personal attacks, your music taste is impeccable, and you've got a sense of humor, at least outside of the War Board. I don't have to agree with what you say but you present it clearly and eloquently and that's more than can be said for a lot of people here on both sides of the spectrum, from the "Obama is a nigger" crowd to "Bush is hitler" crowd.

I seem to remember a few minor scuffles in the beginning, before I understood what you were about and mostly outside of the War Board. I do sometimes resort to personal attacks, although I often regret it afterwards. I wish I could be more like P-Dude and state my flaming liberal positions in a cooler and more relaxed way, so as not to provoke fights in the first place. On the other hand, sometimes I can't help myself!

[bane]

You're all right in my book Ugmo. Flaming liberal views and all, I'd still buy you a beer.

[Ugmo]

Let's not get too cozy here fellas. I still hold you all personally responsible for the Dubya presidency and the resulting economic and foreign policy malaise.

[VinnieKulick]

Let's not get too cozy here fellas. I still hold you all personally responsible for the Dubya presidency and the resulting economic and foreign policy malaise.

Well, I voted Bush the first time because Al Gore is a moron and a crook and had no real ideals that mirrored mine.

And if you seriously think kerry wouldn't have fucked the world up more than Bush, I don't know what to say. 2004 was the first time I didn't vote GOP, but went Libertarian.

But, the foreign policy problem is more about the world thinking we should only act on their behalf, and to their wishes, and not on our own accord, and for our own needs.

[Goddamn Electric]

Jeezus, why don't you all get a room and fuck each other already?

[Tommy]

Ugmo, not to be a dick, but do you live here?

The reason I ask is because there is no possible way you can live here and still conclude that the GOP held up health care.

[Ugmo]

Ugmo, not to be a dick, but do you live here?

The reason I ask is because there is no possible way you can live here and still conclude that the GOP held up health care.

Do I have to live there to read the news? What do you know about the process that I don't know?

[bane]

Ugmo, not to be a dick, but do you live here?

The reason I ask is because there is no possible way you can live here and still conclude that the GOP held up health care.

Do I have to live there to read the news? What do you know about the process that I don't know?

I do have a question on that topic Ugmo. How can you be so passionate about things that don't affect you? I can understand your view on foreign policy, but your passion on domestic issues, like the healthcare debate for example, makes little sense to me as regardless of what gets done, it would seem to have zero impact on your life. Do you have plans to live here again in the future?

[Ugmo]

I do have a question on that topic Ugmo. How can you be so passionate about things that don't affect you? I can understand your view on foreign policy, but your passion on domestic issues, like the healthcare debate for example, makes little sense to me as regardless of what gets done, it would seem to have zero impact on your life. Do you have plans to live here again in the future?

Good question. I don't really know why I'm so passionate about it. I did grow up in the States and care what happens to the country, and follow the developments pretty much every day. Other than that I don't know what to tell you!