McGwire admits steroid use

[LAglamrocker]

he should of had his kid live when he broke the news, I dout the kid would want a hug then

its MLB who the fuck cares, let them all do steriods

[thejuggernaut]

I never said I was upset. I'm not remotely upset. Apparently you guys have beaten this subject into the ground here before, but I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've ever commented on the subject. I said it was an issue, and it is. Personally, I don't think Mac or anyone else from his era should be prosecuted, hounded, or kept out of the HOA for it because clearly a LOT of guys were juicing at the time, but I do think it's something that should be policed better. Steroid use can fuck people up. If media attention forces the league and the player's union to try and clean it up, that's a good thing.

The media should be policing the politicians, not people in the athletic entertainment business using PDDs.

It all started because Barry Bonds was mean to a couple of former wedgie victims.

With all of the problems San Francisco has, great scoop, exposing a baseball player taking PDDs.

While they're at it, they should go after football players too. Not to mention, go after the entire music and movie industry.

[JakeYonkel]

Remember it was McGwire who worked with Matt Holliday last offseason and told him to ditch his leg kick. He got off to a TERRIBLE start with Oakland until he said "fuck it" and went back to what made him the hitter he is, and finished the year pretty strong.

Yeah, McGwire's gonna do fantastic.

[thejuggernaut]

And all that aside, since everyone was on it anyway, what's the point in getting all high and mighty about it?

And you know nothing about steroid use and it's effects. People that use steroids have massive muscular gains and aren't 170lbs. Do you think Greg Maddux, Walt Weiss and hundreds of other players were juicing weighing in at a buck 75?

Absolutely and completely false.

Your arguments were sound until this one.

[bane]

I never said I was upset. I'm not remotely upset. Apparently you guys have beaten this subject into the ground here before, but I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've ever commented on the subject. I said it was an issue, and it is. Personally, I don't think Mac or anyone else from his era should be prosecuted, hounded, or kept out of the HOA for it because clearly a LOT of guys were juicing at the time, but I do think it's something that should be policed better. Steroid use can fuck people up. If media attention forces the league and the player's union to try and clean it up, that's a good thing.

The media should be policing the politicians, not people in the athletic entertainment business using PDDs.

It all started because Barry Bonds was mean to a couple of former wedgie victims.

With all of the problems San Francisco has, great scoop, exposing a baseball player taking PDDs.

While they're at it, they should go after football players too. Not to mention, go after the entire music and movie industry.

Who is this "they" you're talking about? The media doesn't police anybody. They simply report the story, and the more sensational, the better. MLB needed to come out of the dark ages and institute a testing policy in line with every other major sports league in the world. The Bonds scandall (along with Canseco, Mac, etc., etc.) did that, or at the very least, started the process.

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

And all that aside, since everyone was on it anyway, what's the point in getting all high and mighty about it?

And you know nothing about steroid use and it's effects. People that use steroids have massive muscular gains and aren't 170lbs. Do you think Greg Maddux, Walt Weiss and hundreds of other players were juicing weighing in at a buck 75?

Absolutely and completely false.

Your arguments were sound until this one.

Steroids that are used for power and muscle mass, steroids that were used by major league baseball players, steroids like Sustanon, Dianobol, Deca-Durabolin, include massive weight gain from increased muscle mass and body fat in a short peroid. In fact in as little as two weeks.

Steroids like Winstrol (the steroid that Ben Johnson got popped for) are used for endurance and to lose excess body fat. Endurance isn't really necessary for baseball, so it is unlikely that people that had proportional weight to their height, people like Cal Ripken and Craig Biggio, used steroids.

All of the people that have been acused and or admitted to steroids are people who used the substances for power and also had massive weight gain

Here is a picture of Sammy Sosa his rookie year 1989 where he weighed about 180




Here is Sammy Sosa in 1998 where he is about 220




Here is Crybaby in 1988




Crybaby in 1998



It's almost laughable to argue about this thing because people that stick up for these guys are defending an indefensible position. "Everybody else was doing it" and "I felt pressured" didn't work at Nuremberg and it didn't work at My Lai

[thejuggernaut]

I never said I was upset. I'm not remotely upset. Apparently you guys have beaten this subject into the ground here before, but I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've ever commented on the subject. I said it was an issue, and it is. Personally, I don't think Mac or anyone else from his era should be prosecuted, hounded, or kept out of the HOA for it because clearly a LOT of guys were juicing at the time, but I do think it's something that should be policed better. Steroid use can fuck people up. If media attention forces the league and the player's union to try and clean it up, that's a good thing.

The media should be policing the politicians, not people in the athletic entertainment business using PDDs.

It all started because Barry Bonds was mean to a couple of former wedgie victims.

With all of the problems San Francisco has, great scoop, exposing a baseball player taking PDDs.

While they're at it, they should go after football players too. Not to mention, go after the entire music and movie industry.

Who is this "they" you're talking about? The media doesn't police anybody. They simply report the story, and the more sensational, the better. MLB needed to come out of the dark ages and institute a testing policy in line with every other major sports league in the world. The Bonds scandall (along with Canseco, Mac, etc., etc.) did that, or at the very least, started the process.

That's the problem.

The media is SUPPOSED to be the watchdogs ie "the police".

LOL @ dark ages.

Dark ages is believing, in the era of astroturf, ridiculous cross country travel and ridiculous media demands, that these paid ENTERTAINERS should NOT be taking PDDs.

Double LOLs at "institute a testing policy in line with every other major sports league in the world"

Almost the entire NFL is laughing at that one.

P.S. There was no story with Bonds. They MADE a story. It's not like he was caught at the airport with syringes. They didn't like Bonds and they had a hunch and they dug and dug until they found something and. Nobody gave a shit when Big Cracka Mac and Smilin Sammy engaged in their chase.

But god damnit, that miserable nigger Bonds, that cocksucker who asked the court for a reprieve in his alimony and child support payments during the strike citing "financial hardship", that fucker was MEAN to the media. He DESERVED to be taken down.

And therein lies the problem - Bonds didn't kiss the media's ass, so they brought him down.

[thejuggernaut]

Steroids that are used for power and muscle mass, steroids that were used by major league baseball players, steroids like Sustanon, Dianobol, Deca-Durabolin, include massive weight gain from increased muscle mass and body fat in a short peroid. In fact in as little as two weeks.

Steroids like Winstrol (the steroid that Ben Johnson got popped for) are used for endurance and to lose excess body fat. Endurance isn't really necessary for baseball, so it is unlikely that people that had proportional weight to their height, people like Cal Ripken and Craig Biggio, used steroids.

All of the people that have been acused and or admitted to steroids are people who used the substances for power and also had massive weight gain

Here is a picture of Sammy Sosa his rookie year 1989 where he weighed about 180




Here is Sammy Sosa in 1998 where he is about 220




Here is Crybaby in 1988




Crybaby in 1998



It's almost laughable to argue about this thing because people that stick up for these guys are defending and indefensible position. "Everybody else was doing it" and "I felt pressured" didn't work at Nuremberg and it didn't work at My Lai

There are plenty of steroids that are not intended for mass gaining, aside from Winstrol.

And yes, endurance IS needed. A baseball season is a long grind. Some guys wanted to hit moon shots. Other guys just wanted to get through a season healthy and fresh.

And that's not even counting starting pitchers who throw 100 + pitches every 5 days, 35 times a year, and the various throwing sessions in between.

Regardless, with any steroid, the only time you build noticeable muscle is if you're TRYING to build noticeable muscle; it's very easy for someone to take steroids, do very light weight with high reps and lots of cardio and you would never know it to look at them that they took anything, and damnit if it doesn't increase their endurance.

P.S. Winstrol isn't a fat cutter. It builds lean muscle while removing bloating, resulting in sore joints.

[JakeYonkel]

Since you seem to be versed on this stuff, Juggs...

What do you think is with McGwire's neck? Looked ike it's covered in stretch marks during the interview on MLBN with Bob Costas. Would that be a side effect?

[tin00can]

I think it's pretty awesome that noid has compared juicing to being a multiple murderer and being a Nazi. I can't get enough of that shit.

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

I think it's pretty awesome that noid has compared juicing to being a multiple murderer and being a Nazi. I can't get enough of that shit.

[Tymaster]

Not that the NFL and NBA are flawless (both a FAR, FAR from it), people here in my little villa always know I like 'em both. So, they assume I must watch all sports. Assuming such, they always want to ask me about MLB. Well, between the strike that costs the World Series and then all the juicers.....baseball is like my ex-wife, dead to me.

[thejuggernaut]

Since you seem to be versed on this stuff, Juggs...

What do you think is with McGwire's neck? Looked ike it's covered in stretch marks during the interview on MLBN with Bob Costas. Would that be a side effect?

Really bad pock scarring, which he's always had, that is magnified by being stretched out.

[WhiteHouseSubsAC]

I think it's pretty awesome that noid has compared juicing to being a multiple murderer and being a Nazi. I can't get enough of that shit.

The analogies are there, Tin, you just have to go out and get them.

[Machado]

I am certainly looking forward to a statement from
Canseco.
Do the events that took place w/Mac yesterday once again give more
credibitlity to Jose's book???

Where is Sammy Sosa right now and when will he release
a statement?

[JakeYonkel]

El no habla ingles. Recuerdas?

[Machado]

El no habla ingles. Recuerdas?

Claro que si.

I taped the McGwire interview w/Costas yesterday, but did not have
time to watch entirely.
I have seen a few clips, heard some soundbites.
Why in the world did he apologize to Selig?

Fucking Selig is going to let everybody take the fall, allow these players to embarrass themselves on national tv, while he sits behind a desk and does
nothing!

[Machado]

Greg Stejskal didn't need Mark McGwire coming clean Monday about his nearly decade-long steroid usage to know the real story. Stejskal, a retired FBI agent, uncovered the details of McGwire's doping regimen from informants almost two decades ago and, in retrospect, Big Mac is fortunate he wasn't nabbed back then in the federal investigation.

Stejskal, who helped lead the first major federal investigation into illegal steroid distribution called Operation Equine, confirmed that McGwire and his then-Oakland A's teammate, Jose Canseco, were among those identified as steroid users during the probe. The investigation ran from 1989-1993 and led to more than 70 steroid-related convictions, though authorities targeted only suppliers and not users like pumped-up ballplayers.

Federal authorities never considered bringing charges against McGwire, though Stejskal laments that nabbing a big-name athlete might have brought earlier focus to the issue of illegal steroids. That came a decade later with the BALCO scandal and the laundry list of prominent athletes topped by Barry Bonds, Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery.

"With all those 70 some defendants, not one of them was just a user," Stejskal said of the operation. "They were all distributors. Some were distributors and users. We didn't have the resources. We wanted the biggest bang for our buck. We wanted to shut down the black market. We worked the suppliers and there was no reason to go after low-level people."

All these years, Stejskal simply rolled his eyes as Big Mac avoided the steroid question. So he was surprised Monday upon learning of McGuire's admission, which came as he prepares to return to the game as hitting coach with the St. Louis Cardinals.

"I figured that he would either continue to try and finesse the question or back out of the whole coaching thing and say, 'Fine, I'm not going to do this. I don't need this,'" Stejskal said. "It is too bad he waited so long to do it, but I am glad he finally stood up.

"Now I hope he does what he said he was going to do in the [2005] congressional hearings, and that is taking a stand against these performance-enhancing drugs. That he'll fight for more stringent testing and punishment and all that kind of stuff. I don't know that it is going to help him in terms of [election to] the Hall of Fame. I have heard some people speculate that that was part of this, his way of trying to give himself a chance to get into the Hall of Fame.

"But I think everybody suspected that he was doing them. Before, maybe you could have gotten somebody to have given you the benefit of the doubt. Now he is in a situation where you can't even give him the benefit of the doubt. Clearly, he used steroids. And you got to believe they affected his ability."

In a statement made public Monday, McGwire acknowledged using steroids on and off for nearly a decade dating back to 1989. Knowing the questions that await, his admission was careful to specifically cover the 1998 season, when McGwire hit a then-record 70 homers as he and Sammy Sosa engaged in a season-long slugfest that brought a renewal of interest to the sport.

Stejskal said federal authorities, through their undercover operation, learned of McGwire's steroid usage by 1993. A year later, Stejskal recalled that he shared information from the investigation related to baseball players with Major League Baseball's then security boss, Kevin Hallinan, though the sport had no drug testing program at the time.

"We had two sources that told us they personally had seen [McGwire] use steroids," Stejskal told ESPN.com. "Not to mention the fact that Canseco said it as well, which gives you a third source. But we knew it before Canseco said it. And we knew specifics, too. We knew this wasn't a one-time shot or an experimental thing. This guy had a regimen and stuff."

Stejskal has steadfastly refused to identify the sources, though Curtis Wenzlaff has previously been reported to have been a supplier to several Major League Baseball players in the early 1990s, including McGwire. Asked about the sources Monday, Stejskal said, "They were steroid dealers and users who provided information to us that McGwire was a user of steroids." He added that one "was present when he used steroids."

Even so, McGwire stuck to his guns and fended off inquiries about his increasing robust physique and weight gain. He was never more defiant than when he appeared before a congressional hearing in March 2005. Asked whether he took illegal steroids during his playing days, McGwire repeatedly answered "I'm not here to talk about the past."

That performance proved embarrassing and sent McGwire into hiding that past five years. But he isn't about to become subject of a federal perjury probe after his admission Monday.

"He never denied, nor did he admit to the use of steroids," Stejskal said of the Capitol Hill appearance. "He finessed the question. Perjury requires knowingly telling an untruth. He doesn't really say it. He gives that [expletive] comment about, 'This isn't about the past.' Clearly, it was about the past. Now he realizes it was about the past because he clearly put himself in this situation.

"Maybe [Cardinals manager Tony] La Russa or some of these other people said, 'Look, we can finesse this.' So before spring training starts he is out there getting in front of it. That is a good thing. It is just too bad he waited so long.

"He had an opportunity to talk about it in Congress. In a sense, it is vindication for people like the Hootens [whose teenage son Taylor committed suicide while using steroids] who testified just before he did before Congress. Maybe baseball will now realize this was an extremely serious problem and that they are still not in front of it. They are still playing catch-up."

Mike Fish is an investigative reporter for ESPN.com.

[killeverything]

I am certainly looking forward to a statement from
Canseco.
Does the events that took place yesterday once again give more
credibitlity to Jose's book???

Where is Sammy Sosa right now and when will he release
a statement?

Sosa is probably still paitently waiting his induction into the Hall Of Fame. McRoid's admisssion was too little too late. Yeah, everybody always knew. Especially after being a teamate with Canseco for so long. He did it so the media wouldn't be on him in St. Louis, and he want's into the Hall.

As for Barry Balco and Clemens. They can't admit it, since they're being investigated for perjury. Plus Clemens is part of a defation suit against his former trainer. Yep, Clemens was potrayed negatively in the media.

Sammy Sosa will probably just say "I don't know how to eloquently speak English. Si habla Espanol." card. He played when questioned by Congress.

Hank Aarron is still the all-time homerun King. I hope none of them get in the Hall.

[Machado]

Mark McGwire admitted Monday to using steroids during his career, but Jose Canseco contends McGwire is not being entirely forthcoming about the matter.



Canseco, whose book "Juiced" fueled congressional hearings into performance-enhancing drugs in 2005, revisited one topic Tuesday that he wrote about in the book: that he and McGwire injected each other with steroids in the clubhouse bathroom stalls before games when they were teammates with the Oakland Athletics from 1986 to '92.

McGwire denied that claim in an interview Monday night on the MLB Network, telling interviewer Bob Costas that it wasn't true and that Canseco must have made the claim to help sell "Juiced."

"I've got no problems with a few of the things he's saying, but again, it's ironic and strange that Mark McGwire denies that I injected him with steroids. He's calling me a liar again," Canseco said Tuesday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "I've defended Mark, I've said a lot of good things about him, but I can't believe he just called me a liar.

"There is something very strange going on here, and I'm wondering what it is. I even polygraphed that subject matter, that I injected him, and passed it completely. So I want to challenge him on national TV to a polygraph examination. I want to see him call me a liar under a polygraph examination."

St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, who managed McGwire and Canseco in Oakland, hired McGwire as Cardinals hitting coach during the offseason. In an interview with ESPN's "Baseball Tonight," La Russa said he didn't know McGwire had used steroids until the slugger admitted as much in a phone call to the manager earlier Monday.

"That's a blatant lie," Canseco said. "Tony La Russa was quoted as saying that I was using steroids back then, and I was talking about it in the clubhouse, openly. That's a blatant lie.

"There are some things here that are so ridiculous, and so disrespectful for the public and the media to believe. I just can't believe it. I'm in total shock. These guys remind me of politicians that go up and just lie to the public and expect to get elected."

Canseco said he is still a big fan of McGwire, his fellow "Bash Brother" from their days in Oakland, and he believes McGwire would have broken the single-season home run record without using performance-enhancing drugs.

McGwire said Monday that he used steroids to keep his body healthy in order to remain in the lineup, not to pad his power numbers or break records. To that end, Canseco said he is convinced McGwire is "the exception" to players who might use or have used performance-enhancing drugs.

"He's such a talented individual," Canseco said.

But Canseco expressed resentment with a perception that he needs to defend what he wrote in "Juiced."

"I'm tired of justifying what I've said," Canseco said. "I've polygraphed, I've proven that I'm 100 percent accurate. I never exaggerated. I told it the way it actually happened. I'm the only one who has told it the way it actually happened. Major League Baseball is still trying to defend itself. It's strange. All I have is the truth, and I've proven that."

Canseco also took issue with Major League Baseball commissioner Bud Selig, who Canseco always has claimed knew about the sport's steroid problem and looked the other way during the era.

"I think eventually Bud Selig has to resign," Canseco said. "This is far from over. There's a list out there of [103] players. The last five to eight years there may have been some players elected to the Hall of Fame that were on that list. Nonetheless, if that list is not divulged, there will continuously be players who are inducted into the Hall of Fame who will probably be on that list."

[thejuggernaut]

Mark McGwire admitted Monday to using steroids during his career, but Jose Canseco contends McGwire is not being entirely forthcoming about the matter.



Canseco, whose book "Juiced" fueled congressional hearings into performance-enhancing drugs in 2005, revisited one topic Tuesday that he wrote about in the book: that he and McGwire injected each other with steroids in the clubhouse bathroom stalls before games when they were teammates with the Oakland Athletics from 1986 to '92.

McGwire denied that claim in an interview Monday night on the MLB Network, telling interviewer Bob Costas that it wasn't true and that Canseco must have made the claim to help sell "Juiced."

"I've got no problems with a few of the things he's saying, but again, it's ironic and strange that Mark McGwire denies that I injected him with steroids. He's calling me a liar again," Canseco said Tuesday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "I've defended Mark, I've said a lot of good things about him, but I can't believe he just called me a liar.

"There is something very strange going on here, and I'm wondering what it is. I even polygraphed that subject matter, that I injected him, and passed it completely. So I want to challenge him on national TV to a polygraph examination. I want to see him call me a liar under a polygraph examination."

St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, who managed McGwire and Canseco in Oakland, hired McGwire as Cardinals hitting coach during the offseason. In an interview with ESPN's "Baseball Tonight," La Russa said he didn't know McGwire had used steroids until the slugger admitted as much in a phone call to the manager earlier Monday.

"That's a blatant lie," Canseco said. "Tony La Russa was quoted as saying that I was using steroids back then, and I was talking about it in the clubhouse, openly. That's a blatant lie.

"There are some things here that are so ridiculous, and so disrespectful for the public and the media to believe. I just can't believe it. I'm in total shock. These guys remind me of politicians that go up and just lie to the public and expect to get elected."

Canseco said he is still a big fan of McGwire, his fellow "Bash Brother" from their days in Oakland, and he believes McGwire would have broken the single-season home run record without using performance-enhancing drugs.

McGwire said Monday that he used steroids to keep his body healthy in order to remain in the lineup, not to pad his power numbers or break records. To that end, Canseco said he is convinced McGwire is "the exception" to players who might use or have used performance-enhancing drugs.

"He's such a talented individual," Canseco said.

But Canseco expressed resentment with a perception that he needs to defend what he wrote in "Juiced."

"I'm tired of justifying what I've said," Canseco said. "I've polygraphed, I've proven that I'm 100 percent accurate. I never exaggerated. I told it the way it actually happened. I'm the only one who has told it the way it actually happened. Major League Baseball is still trying to defend itself. It's strange. All I have is the truth, and I've proven that."

Canseco also took issue with Major League Baseball commissioner Bud Selig, who Canseco always has claimed knew about the sport's steroid problem and looked the other way during the era.

"I think eventually Bud Selig has to resign," Canseco said. "This is far from over. There's a list out there of [103] players. The last five to eight years there may have been some players elected to the Hall of Fame that were on that list. Nonetheless, if that list is not divulged, there will continuously be players who are inducted into the Hall of Fame who will probably be on that list."

Someone needs to take Canseco out.

[Machado]

Canseco deserves an apology.

Canseco deserves to have streets named after him.

Canseco has told the truth more often than a lot of the ballplayers
who have "admitted" using Roids.

[thejuggernaut]

Canseco deserves an apology.

Canseco deserves to have streets named after him.

Canseco has told the truth more often than a lot of the ballplayers
who have "admitted" using Roids.

Canseco is a piece of trash who ratted out his friends because GMs got tired of paying him huge salaries when he was only committed to the game at contract time.

When he pissed through his money, he sold out his friends.

If you think that's something to admire, you have problems.

[Machado]

Canseco deserves an apology.

Canseco deserves to have streets named after him.

Canseco has told the truth more often than a lot of the ballplayers
who have "admitted" using Roids.

Canseco is a piece of trash who ratted out his friends because GMs got tired of paying him huge salaries when he was only committed to the game at contract time.

When he pissed through his money, he sold out his friends.

If you think that's something to admire, you have problems.

If you care to express who should be taken out, perhaps you should direct that to TJ Quinn of ESPN because today he ripped up Mac again and exposed all the "holes" in his story.

Mac is still lying
LaRussa is a liar

They try to make the fans believe Jose is the problem, when they know full well their actions were also causing much harm.

[thejuggernaut]

Canseco deserves an apology.

Canseco deserves to have streets named after him.

Canseco has told the truth more often than a lot of the ballplayers
who have "admitted" using Roids.

Canseco is a piece of trash who ratted out his friends because GMs got tired of paying him huge salaries when he was only committed to the game at contract time.

When he pissed through his money, he sold out his friends.

If you think that's something to admire, you have problems.

If you care to express who should be taken out, perhaps you should direct that to TJ Quinn of ESPN because today he ripped up Mac again and exposed all the "holes" in his story.

Mac is still lying
LaRussa is a liar

They try to make the fans believe Jose is the problem, when they know full well their actions were also causing much harm.

Nobody should care if they're lying.

What harm did they cause ?

What, some people stuck in the apple pie and sock hop era feel their precious game was tarnished ? Fuck them, the retrograde morons.

Why wouldn't they lie, when it's possible they obtained something illegally ?

Jose Canseco sold out his friends because he pissed his money away, plain and simple. McGwire didn't get asked about steroids, deny it and say "why don't you ask Jose".

No. Jose, ever the fuck up, was broke and sold out his friends.

Maybe where you're from that behavior is admirable.

P.S. Why would I care what TJ Quinn says ?

[Hootchietoad]

Nobody should care if they're lying.

What harm did they cause ?

What, some people stuck in the apple pie and sock hop era feel their precious game was tarnished ? Fuck them, the retrograde morons.

Why wouldn't they lie, when it's possible they obtained something illegally ?

Jose Canseco sold out his friends because he pissed his money away, plain and simple. McGwire didn't get asked about steroids, deny it and say "why don't you ask Jose".

No. Jose, ever the fuck up, was broke and sold out his friends.

Maybe where you're from that behavior is admirable.

P.S. Why would I care what TJ Quinn says ?

Are we sure these are Jose's "friends"? I would consider them co-workers. With potential co-workers looking to take your place should you stumble. He owes them nothing. It's everyman for himself. Never been a fraternity fan, whether sports related or otherwise. Fraternities are for people who need to be assigned friends because they can't make them on their own.

Jose gets the last laugh in this whole scenario. He's been right about nearly everything, and MLB and his "friends" all look like pathetic, lying assholes.

[killeverything]

Nobody should care if they're lying.

What harm did they cause ?

What, some people stuck in the apple pie and sock hop era feel their precious game was tarnished ? Fuck them, the retrograde morons.

Why wouldn't they lie, when it's possible they obtained something illegally ?

Jose Canseco sold out his friends because he pissed his money away, plain and simple. McGwire didn't get asked about steroids, deny it and say "why don't you ask Jose".

No. Jose, ever the fuck up, was broke and sold out his friends.

Maybe where you're from that behavior is admirable.

P.S. Why would I care what TJ Quinn says ?

Are we sure these are Jose's "friends"? I would consider them co-workers. With potential co-workers looking to take your place should you stumble. He owes them nothing. It's everyman for himself. Never been a fraternity fan, whether sports related or otherwise. Fraternities are for people who need to be assigned friends because they can't make them on their own.

Jose gets the last laugh in this whole scenario. He's been right about nearly everything, and MLB and his "friends" all look like pathetic, lying assholes.

His motives were bullshit though. I'm glad that Selig and the MLBPA are under fire. Canseco's reasons were because he was blacklisted from Baseball. No team wanted to sign him so he could limp to 400 HRs and a HOF nomination.

He was pissed, and then broke with Alimony payments. Then we have a book. I'm glad it came out and the fall-out from it. The records will still stand. No one actually broke Roger Maris' 61 HR season, which he did on the last game of the season playing in 8 more games than Ruth. Ruth hit 60 in 154 games. Maris had 59 in 154. So technically no one has broken Ruth's record.

Aaron is still the all-time HR leader. Not some good hitter, who became un-Godly good in their late 30s. Hopefully these guys don't get in the Hall, because they cheated. If they're let in then Pete Rose should be eligible for a vote too.

[Machado]

Nobody should care if they're lying.

What harm did they cause ?

What, some people stuck in the apple pie and sock hop era feel their precious game was tarnished ? Fuck them, the retrograde morons.

Why wouldn't they lie, when it's possible they obtained something illegally ?

Jose Canseco sold out his friends because he pissed his money away, plain and simple. McGwire didn't get asked about steroids, deny it and say "why don't you ask Jose".

No. Jose, ever the fuck up, was broke and sold out his friends.

Maybe where you're from that behavior is admirable.

P.S. Why would I care what TJ Quinn says ?

Are we sure these are Jose's "friends"? I would consider them co-workers. With potential co-workers looking to take your place should you stumble. He owes them nothing. It's everyman for himself. Never been a fraternity fan, whether sports related or otherwise. Fraternities are for people who need to be assigned friends because they can't make them on their own.

Jose gets the last laugh in this whole scenario. He's been right about nearly everything, and MLB and his "friends" all look like pathetic, lying assholes.

His motives were bullshit though. I'm glad that Selig and the MLBPA are under fire. Canseco's reasons were because he was blacklisted from Baseball. No team wanted to sign him so he could limp to 400 HRs and a HOF nomination.

He was pissed, and then broke with Alimony payments. Then we have a book. I'm glad it came out and the fall-out from it. The records will still stand. No one actually broke Roger Maris' 61 HR season, which he did on the last game of the season playing in 8 more games than Ruth. Ruth hit 60 in 154 games. Maris had 59 in 154. So technically no one has broken Ruth's record.

Aaron is still the all-time HR leader. Not some good hitter, who became un-Godly good in their late 30s. Hopefully these guys don't get in the Hall, because they cheated. If they're let in then Pete Rose should be eligible for a vote too.

Jose might have had all the wrong reasons to write his books, but all these years later, it appears what he actually wrote contains a lot more truth than anybody expected.
At the same time, were the motivations by MLB owners or Bud actually fair by blacklisting Jose from the game?

I'm thrilled he wrote the book. If not, scam artists like McGwire would be preparing his HOF speech.

I still think more attention should go in the direction of LaRussa.
The guy has always been perceived as a smart man. And now he has the balls to say he never had knowledge that Mac was on roids, but all these years he did not feel the same about Jose? BULLSHIT!!!

[thejuggernaut]

Nobody should care if they're lying.

What harm did they cause ?

What, some people stuck in the apple pie and sock hop era feel their precious game was tarnished ? Fuck them, the retrograde morons.

Why wouldn't they lie, when it's possible they obtained something illegally ?

Jose Canseco sold out his friends because he pissed his money away, plain and simple. McGwire didn't get asked about steroids, deny it and say "why don't you ask Jose".

No. Jose, ever the fuck up, was broke and sold out his friends.

Maybe where you're from that behavior is admirable.

P.S. Why would I care what TJ Quinn says ?

Are we sure these are Jose's "friends"? I would consider them co-workers. With potential co-workers looking to take your place should you stumble. He owes them nothing. It's everyman for himself. Never been a fraternity fan, whether sports related or otherwise. Fraternities are for people who need to be assigned friends because they can't make them on their own.

Jose gets the last laugh in this whole scenario. He's been right about nearly everything, and MLB and his "friends" all look like pathetic, lying assholes.

Well perhaps Jose should have played in and individual sport, like Golf, and not a team sport with a union.

Not to mention, the whole bodybuilding/steroid community is supposed to be tight knit and a closed circle and he broke a serious rule by yapping.

P.S. It's not every man for himself. It's every player against the GM. The players set the market for each other and the better your pal does, the more you stand to gain come negotiation time.

[thejuggernaut]

You guys complaining about this need to ask yourselves a question (two questions to some) and I don't want any bullshit qualifiers.

1. For those of you who are football fans, why are you fans ? Surely you realize a staggering amount of pro football players are on PEDs/PDDs. I don't want any bullshit answers like "but....but....but...if they're not caught, they're not guilty". That's ignorance. You know DAMN WELL they are juicing. I also don't want to hear anything about "cultural acceptance involved with the sport"

2. Why on earth are you music fans, especially hair metal ? So many musicians use drugs to enhance their performance. Surely most of you (possibly all) are fans of at least one band with a drug history. You are paying for a "fraud" in that the entertainment you spend money on is not natural. Again, I don't want to hear any bullshit about cultural acceptance of the vocation.

MLB is in the business of entertainment, just like football and music. It is not a game. So, why do you accept PDDs/PEDs in football and PEDs/PDDs in music but not baseball ? And please, none of this tradition, sacred game bullshit because it's a BUSINESS and I'll reference the never ending string of "cheaters" in the Black Sox, spitballers, bat corkers, emory boarders, sandpaperers, sign stealers, pitch tippers etc etc.