"Usurping federal authority"

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Well, it depends. Mexican restaurants, sure. I don't see 'em in Chinese restaurants though.

Point is, people do NOT always know. Several months ago they busted Howard Industries' electronic controls factory in Laurel, MS for hiring illegals. They make controls for heating equipment. I would've never thought they'd be using illegal Hispanic workers, but sure enough.

Now if I am a repair plumbing and heating technician, am I supposed to tell my customer to get a different kind of heater? IF if can find a brand and verify that they DON'T use illegal Hispanic workers, that is? Or do I but the part anyway at my local supply house and fix my customer's heater?

It's not as much a matter of choice as you might think...

That's a matter of convenience, not choice. It's easy to bitch, harder to actually do something.

[lerxstcat]

Well, it depends. Mexican restaurants, sure. I don't see 'em in Chinese restaurants though.

Point is, people do NOT always know. Several months ago they busted Howard Industries' electronic controls factory in Laurel, MS for hiring illegals. They make controls for heating equipment. I would've never thought they'd be using illegal Hispanic workers, but sure enough.

Now if I am a repair plumbing and heating technician, am I supposed to tell my customer to get a different kind of heater? IF if can find a brand and verify that they DON'T use illegal Hispanic workers, that is? Or do I but the part anyway at my local supply house and fix my customer's heater?

It's not as much a matter of choice as you might think...

That's a matter of convenience, not choice. It's easy to bitch, harder to actually do something.

Not always. If your customer is a little old lady and ONLY that Howard Industries control works for her heater, you can't exactly ask or expect her to spend her Social Security check on a new heater because you want to boycott the company that hired illegals. You just buy the part and install it. The lady needs her heater to work, period.

Especially since you have no way to prove that a competing product's company isn't doing the same thing and just haven't been busted yet.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Well, it depends. Mexican restaurants, sure. I don't see 'em in Chinese restaurants though.

Point is, people do NOT always know. Several months ago they busted Howard Industries' electronic controls factory in Laurel, MS for hiring illegals. They make controls for heating equipment. I would've never thought they'd be using illegal Hispanic workers, but sure enough.

Now if I am a repair plumbing and heating technician, am I supposed to tell my customer to get a different kind of heater? IF if can find a brand and verify that they DON'T use illegal Hispanic workers, that is? Or do I but the part anyway at my local supply house and fix my customer's heater?

It's not as much a matter of choice as you might think...

That's a matter of convenience, not choice. It's easy to bitch, harder to actually do something.

Not always. If your customer is a little old lady and ONLY that Howard Industries control works for her heater, you can't exactly ask or expect her to spend her Social Security check on a new heater because you want to boycott the company that hired illegals. You just buy the part and install it. The lady needs her heater to work, period.

Especially since you have no way to prove that a competing product's company isn't doing the same thing and just haven't been busted yet.

or you and she can just shut the fuck up about illegal aliens. They are here because no one gives a damn as long as they can get their shit cheap. As long as it's too much trouble for most to do no more than bitch, people will hire them and they will come.

[vlad]

lerx, maybe in your region you don't see them in restaurants besides Mexican ones.

In the PNW, you will see them in any restaurant, from Chinese to Burger King. The fancy seafood ones on the coast, and in the big hotels in the cities.

I'm telling you, the illegals are even working fish plants in western Alaska! And everyone knows that the majority are illegal. In fact, some years ago, the head dock boss of a big plant in Kodiak got busted for being illegal...and the company laid the pressure on to get him back from Mexico. And were successful.

Maybe in your area folks don't realise that many if not most of the illegals are in fact that...(which is kind of funny, because if they don't realise they are illegal, why so sure that there illegals everywhere?).

As for folks who don't have an option for a new heater, etc...well? Again, they will buy from the offending companies, but still bitch about it? Do these hypothetical heater needers say anything to the heating company?

It's like my main bitch about the international war on drugs. Besides the whole drugs are illegal in the first place thing. Send troops to Columbia, and troops to the Mexican border (well, that I can sort of understand), but the bottom l ine is that the reason those drugs are flowing into the US is because there is a market in the US. Apparently a damn big one.

It's the "It's their fault, we Americans have nothing to do with the use of illegal workers!!!!" that gets my hackles up. Because it's just plain bullshit. Maybe not for that one little old lady who needs her heater, but collectively, it is hypocrisy of the first water.

What's happening in Arizona...well I wish I could give a fuck about that state, but I haven't for years. Snowbirds.

[lerxstcat]

lerx, maybe in your region you don't see them in restaurants besides Mexican ones.

In the PNW, you will see them in any restaurant, from Chinese to Burger King. The fancy seafood ones on the coast, and in the big hotels in the cities.

I'm telling you, the illegals are even working fish plants in western Alaska! And everyone knows that the majority are illegal. In fact, some years ago, the head dock boss of a big plant in Kodiak got busted for being illegal...and the company laid the pressure on to get him back from Mexico. And were successful.

Maybe in your area folks don't realise that many if not most of the illegals are in fact that...(which is kind of funny, because if they don't realise they are illegal, why so sure that there illegals everywhere?).

As for folks who don't have an option for a new heater, etc...well? Again, they will buy from the offending companies, but still bitch about it? Do these hypothetical heater needers say anything to the heating company?

It's like my main bitch about the international war on drugs. Besides the whole drugs are illegal in the first place thing. Send troops to Columbia, and troops to the Mexican border (well, that I can sort of understand), but the bottom l ine is that the reason those drugs are flowing into the US is because there is a market in the US. Apparently a damn big one.

It's the "It's their fault, we Americans have nothing to do with the use of illegal workers!!!!" that gets my hackles up. Because it's just plain bullshit. Maybe not for that one little old lady who needs her heater, but collectively, it is hypocrisy of the first water.

What's happening in Arizona...well I wish I could give a fuck about that state, but I haven't for years. Snowbirds.

Well, first of all, I acknowledged the need for illegals in our economy earlier in the thread. I personally accept it but was disputing the idea that it's a matter of convenience, not choice.

The company I worked for had a lot of elderly customers, retirees who had used our services since my boss' father owned the company. They were not hypothetical and they weren't people who could afford to change out a perfectly serviceable heater that could be cheaply repaired.

Of couurse Howard Industries hadn't been busted yet, so I don't even know what those people would think today. But even if they didn't like the idea of illegals working there, it doesn't mean they could afford to boycott the company that sells controls for their heater.

Sometimes it's not economically feasible to put your money where your mouth is, therefore it IS a matter of having no choice, not a matter of convenience.

[bane]

Get rid of the illegals and start to pay what Americans feel they are due for the same labour and you will hear a collective high wail across the country. "Too expensive!!!!!"

Yep. It's an economic disaster waiting to happen. Personally, I'd advocate an amnesty followed by a serious crack down on businesses that hire illegals. It's simple. It solves the problem and it's relatively painless.