Killeverything's (New)NeverEndingBaseballThread

[Machado]

Keep dreaming.
Stop worrying about our pitchers please.
Speaking of "arm trouble", you have plenty to be concerned with.
smoltz
penny

Yeah, those shoulders and elbows are so healthy...

I'm thrilled Pettitte has returned. I could care less how much money he is getting paid.
Now we have our starting 5.

Sabathia
Wang
Burnett
Pettitte
Joba

If the Yankees decided that Joba should once again return to the pen, then so be it. That would open up a spot for Hughes, Kennedy, Acevedo or Phil Coke.
Seems like a nice problem to have. An abundance of pitching never hurts a club.

Penny & Smoltz are short-dollar guys with incentive laden deals. If they come through it is just a bonus.

I'm not concerned with NY's pitching. As I've stated before, I just don't want to watch them blow out a promising young pitcher because he will be fun to watch for the next 10 years if they take care of him. When it comes to picking all-stars, talking about the HOF, or watching players develop I don't care about the jersey they wear.

They panicked and messed with Joba last season, and he got hurt and had to be shut down. MLB scouts and commentators as well as just about everyone here knows that he was mishandled, and as long as there are Steinbrenners calling the shots it can happen again. Remember Mark Fidrych?

And what is with the "us" and "we" stuff? Are you a bat boy or something?

I think you should write a book based on theory and conjecture. Team up with that guy from SI and all will be well.

I enjoy the people that 2nd guess how the Yankees "handled" Joba in '08. Like those GM's or coaches would have done differently.

Based on the Yankees need, he filled that spot in an effort to help the team win.
What is the problem with that?

[JakeYonkel]

The problem with that is, before the season he was going to be a starter, then when the season began he was a reliever, but he was then converted into a starter in a span of like 4 starts to get stretched out. Then bam, shoulder problem.

Then he's a reliever again.

Oh, but now he's a starter again.

Take the pinstriped glasses off. That's not good for ANY pitcher.

When the Dodgers did it with that guy 2 years ago (of course I can't remember his name now) he worked in relief for the first half of the year, then slowly built up strength to start, and was then a starter full-time. Now he's a great pitcher for them.

Joba, RIGHT NOW, can be a dominant relief pitcher. Maybe top 5 in the league. He has the POTENTIAL to be a great, ace-caliber starting pitcher. I'm fine with either/or - they just need to pick one and stick with it.

[Machado]

The problem with that is, before the season he was going to be a starter, then when the season began he was a reliever, but he was then converted into a starter in a span of like 4 starts to get stretched out. Then bam, shoulder problem.

Then he's a reliever again.

Oh, but now he's a starter again.

Take the pinstriped glasses off. That's not good for ANY pitcher.

When the Dodgers did it with that guy 2 years ago (of course I can't remember his name now) he worked in relief for the first half of the year, then slowly built up strength to start, and was then a starter full-time. Now he's a great pitcher for them.

Joba, RIGHT NOW, can be a dominant relief pitcher. Maybe top 5 in the league. He has the POTENTIAL to be a great, ace-caliber starting pitcher. I'm fine with either/or - they just need to pick one and stick with it.

Take it easy chief.
It was common knowledge the Yankees had a plan for Joba in '08 and the team followed that plan.
If Joba began the '08 season as a starting pitcher, he would have reached his innings limit around mid-season, thus losing him for the remaining games.
Instead the team decided to start him off in the pen and at a certain time in the season, he would be converted into a starter.


What's the problem???

[JakeYonkel]

They've been tiptoeing around him since they called him up in 2007. He breezed through the minors from single A ball (as a starter the entire time) and was immediately thrust into the 8th inning role in August with those stupid fucking "Joba Rules" saying for every inning pitched he got a day of rest. They advertised this to the point that the opposing manager went into the game knowing whether or not Joba was available.

So fine, let's make him a starter, OH, but we need to cap his innings.

Rather than having him pitch out of the pen until June and then send him down to the minors for a transitional period, they chose to do it at the major league level, and as I recall his first few starts were like 2 innings, 3 innings, 4 innings.

The guy had a bullpen mentality that he couldn't carry over. He came out throwing gas in the first inning and without looking it up I would bet he never made it through the 7th inning in a start last year.

They're fucking not only with his arm but his head. Sending him back to the 'pen after his arm injury just proved my point even more.

So he'll start the season and they're saying they'll be able to skip his turn as the 5th starter. How much would you like to bet that if he winds up with a minor (or not so minor) injury and he's out for a month or so in June, somebody like Phil Hughes or Alfredo Aceves steps in to the #5 spot and Joba is brought back as the 8th inning man to patch up the bullpen?

Like I said, they need to pick a role and stick with it.

[Machado]

They've been tiptoeing around him since they called him up in 2007. He breezed through the minors from single A ball (as a starter the entire time) and was immediately thrust into the 8th inning role in August with those stupid fucking "Joba Rules" saying for every inning pitched he got a day of rest. They advertised this to the point that the opposing manager went into the game knowing whether or not Joba was available.

So fine, let's make him a starter, OH, but we need to cap his innings.

Rather than having him pitch out of the pen until June and then send him down to the minors for a transitional period, they chose to do it at the major league level, and as I recall his first few starts were like 2 innings, 3 innings, 4 innings.

The guy had a bullpen mentality that he couldn't carry over. He came out throwing gas in the first inning and without looking it up I would bet he never made it through the 7th inning in a start last year.

They're fucking not only with his arm but his head. Sending him back to the 'pen after his arm injury just proved my point even more.

So he'll start the season and they're saying they'll be able to skip his turn as the 5th starter. How much would you like to bet that if he winds up with a minor (or not so minor) injury and he's out for a month or so in June, somebody like Phil Hughes or Alfredo Aceves steps in to the #5 spot and Joba is brought back as the 8th inning man to patch up the bullpen?

Like I said, they need to pick a role and stick with it.

Some of you are so obsessed

It is true, Joba's first few starts were limited to 2, 3 or 4 innings.
Why?
Because he had a very conservative pitch count and it only took him that long to reach that pitch count. Thus, exit the game and return in 5 days.

Of course it's much easier to convert a reliever into a starter down in the minors, but the Yankees felt they could do that at the major league level.
Based on Hughes and Kennedy's poor performance, it's not like the Yankees had much of a choice and lose Joba for a month or so to the minor's.

And yes, in '08 Joba indeed needed a cap to his innings.
The guy is so young and has only pitched so many innings as a pro.
What is the problem with an innings cap? I ask you????
As a starter he went 7 innings once.
He threw 100+ pitches 5 times

[killeverything]

Joba doesn't have the knowledge to be a succesful starter yet. Much like what Jake said "a bullpen mentality." It's the difference between facing 3 to 4 hitters, to facing 20-25. Some pitchers have been known to be able to "dial back" and touch the upper 90s in the 7th or 8th when they need it ( Schilling, Valenzuala, Gibson, etc. ). It's a game long conservation.

I haven't looked up his stats from last season yet, but if your right about only going 7 innings ONCE. Also going over 100 pitches FIVE times. Over a 100 pitches in less than 7IP four or five times? That should tell you everything you need to know about his usage, and the colossal fuckup with it.

[Machado]

Did the Red Sox do this type of mind-fucking with Pappelbon?

No.

I wonder why
Maybe it was due to the sox having enough starting pitchers and there was no need to pap to be a starter.


When there is a need, a team fills that need.

END OF STORY!!!

[JakeYonkel]

They've been tiptoeing around him since they called him up in 2007. He breezed through the minors from single A ball (as a starter the entire time) and was immediately thrust into the 8th inning role in August with those stupid fucking "Joba Rules" saying for every inning pitched he got a day of rest. They advertised this to the point that the opposing manager went into the game knowing whether or not Joba was available.

So fine, let's make him a starter, OH, but we need to cap his innings.

Rather than having him pitch out of the pen until June and then send him down to the minors for a transitional period, they chose to do it at the major league level, and as I recall his first few starts were like 2 innings, 3 innings, 4 innings.

The guy had a bullpen mentality that he couldn't carry over. He came out throwing gas in the first inning and without looking it up I would bet he never made it through the 7th inning in a start last year.

They're fucking not only with his arm but his head. Sending him back to the 'pen after his arm injury just proved my point even more.

So he'll start the season and they're saying they'll be able to skip his turn as the 5th starter. How much would you like to bet that if he winds up with a minor (or not so minor) injury and he's out for a month or so in June, somebody like Phil Hughes or Alfredo Aceves steps in to the #5 spot and Joba is brought back as the 8th inning man to patch up the bullpen?

Like I said, they need to pick a role and stick with it.

Some of you are so obsessed

Dude.. I AM A YANKEE FAN.

Wait a second, I know I can do this one:

Yo soy un fanatico de los Yanquis.

[Machado]

They've been tiptoeing around him since they called him up in 2007. He breezed through the minors from single A ball (as a starter the entire time) and was immediately thrust into the 8th inning role in August with those stupid fucking "Joba Rules" saying for every inning pitched he got a day of rest. They advertised this to the point that the opposing manager went into the game knowing whether or not Joba was available.

So fine, let's make him a starter, OH, but we need to cap his innings.

Rather than having him pitch out of the pen until June and then send him down to the minors for a transitional period, they chose to do it at the major league level, and as I recall his first few starts were like 2 innings, 3 innings, 4 innings.

The guy had a bullpen mentality that he couldn't carry over. He came out throwing gas in the first inning and without looking it up I would bet he never made it through the 7th inning in a start last year.

They're fucking not only with his arm but his head. Sending him back to the 'pen after his arm injury just proved my point even more.

So he'll start the season and they're saying they'll be able to skip his turn as the 5th starter. How much would you like to bet that if he winds up with a minor (or not so minor) injury and he's out for a month or so in June, somebody like Phil Hughes or Alfredo Aceves steps in to the #5 spot and Joba is brought back as the 8th inning man to patch up the bullpen?

Like I said, they need to pick a role and stick with it.

Some of you are so obsessed

Dude.. I AM A YANKEE FAN.

Wait a second, I know I can do this one:

Yo soy un fanatico de los Yanquis.

BULLSHIT-
You are a rays fan. Give me a break.
A fugazi Yankee fan=jake

[Facedown]

It is now being said that Friday is Tek's deadline.

[killeverything]

It is now being said that Friday is Tek's deadline.

Really?

Everywhere it's the 31st I thought.

*edit*

Nevermind. Found it.

Red Sox set Friday deadline for Varitek deal

BOSTON (AP) — The Boston Red Sox have given catcher Jason Varitek until Friday to accept or reject a one-year, $5 million contract offer with options for 2010.

A person familiar with the negotiations said Tuesday the Red Sox, who begin spring training on Feb. 12, want an answer by Friday. The person disclosed the deadline and details of the offer on condition of anonymity because the team does not publicly discuss negotiations.

[Facedown]

It is now being said that Friday is Tek's deadline.

Really?

Everywhere it's the 31st I thought.

It's been on the ESPNews scroll and was reported by the AP.
It's not on there now so maybe it was false.

EDIT - It was just shown on the scoreboard/newsboard above the scroll.

[killeverything]

Joba's on MLB Hot Stove right now. He just said as of November from Girardi and Cashman, he's starting all season.

Sweet. There goes that happy little link to Rivera.

[Machado]

It is now being said that Friday is Tek's deadline.

Really?

Everywhere it's the 31st I thought.

It's been on the ESPNews scroll and was reported by the AP.
It's not on there now so maybe it was false.

EDIT - It was just shown on the scoreboard/newsboard above the scroll.

why are the chowder-heads treating their captain so poorly?
has management had enough of this guy and care to toss him aside?
just wondering.

[JakeYonkel]

BULLSHIT-
You are a rays fan. Give me a break.
A fugazi Yankee fan=jake

Oh, my bad. I forgot. I probably shouldn't have bought all those Yankee season ticket packages or decorated my son's room entirely with photos of Yankee players past & present.

Better go start hanging up those shots of Greg Vaughn and Dan Wheeler.

[JakeYonkel]

why are the chowder-heads treating their captain so poorly?
has management had enough of this guy and care to toss him aside?
just wondering.

They're not treating him poorly at all. They offered him arbitration. He declined. It's a business. He's worthless offensively, he's lucky Boston is throwing him a bone at all because I highly doubt anybody would have signed him and lost their draft pick. He'd probably be sitting out until June after the Rule 4 draft so it wouldn't have cost anybody a pick.

[thejuggernaut]

What's truly amazing is Machado's Yankees worship exceeds Lickety's New England worship, so much so, that he is the only person in the world, outside of Hank and Hal's meeting room, who cannot understand that the Yankees nearly destroyed Joba's career last year.

[Machado]

why are the chowder-heads treating their captain so poorly?
has management had enough of this guy and care to toss him aside?
just wondering.

They're not treating him poorly at all. They offered him arbitration. He declined. It's a business. He's worthless offensively, he's lucky Boston is throwing him a bone at all because I highly doubt anybody would have signed him and lost their draft pick. He'd probably be sitting out until June after the Rule 4 draft so it wouldn't have cost anybody a pick.

if tek does re-sign, will he continue to assume his "c" role? or if he does not return, who will be the next "c" on the team? just wondering.

[Machado]

What's truly amazing is Machado's Yankees worship exceeds Lickety's New England worship, so much so, that he is the only person in the world, outside of Hank and Hal's meeting room, who cannot understand that the Yankees nearly destroyed Joba's career last year.

Take it easy.
I'm the type of person that says, "let's see what happens". While some people here are quick to judge and come to a conclusion that a player has been ruined.
What's the point?
Let Joba return to the mound, get comfortable again with starting and see how well he does, see how his arm/shoulder holds up and then we can judge.

We all know there were specific reasons why Joba was inserted as a reliever and why he was then asked to be a starter. These reasons have
been discussed here many times.

[killeverything]

if tek does re-sign, will he continue to assume his "c" role? or if he does not return, who will be the next "c" on the team? just wondering.

If Tek comes back he is the captain. If he doesn't, I would guess that Lowell would be. Pedrioa has the makeup to be a captian, but he hasn't been around long enough.

If Tek doesn't come back, some other player will assume the "leadership" role. The last Captain before Tek was Fisk.

I also don't think it's going to be Pedroia to take on that role yet. He's going into year 3. Varitek's actions pissed me off. I shudder to think what the team will be without him. When he went down in 2006, so did the team. That wasn't like losing your #1 starter or closer. They just all disconnected.

We can go on and on about his intangibles, and how you can actually quantify them. We saw the evidence. He needs to get off his ass, play his last days as a Sox while grooming his replacement. He'll be back.

[Machado]

if tek does re-sign, will he continue to assume his "c" role? or if he does not return, who will be the next "c" on the team? just wondering.

If Tek comes back he is the captain. If he doesn't, I would guess that Lowell would be. Pedrioa has the makeup to be a captian, but he hasn't been around long enough.

is lowell healthy and on track to be ready opening day? i thought he was hurt. bad hip???

[killeverything]

if tek does re-sign, will he continue to assume his "c" role? or if he does not return, who will be the next "c" on the team? just wondering.

If Tek comes back he is the captain. If he doesn't, I would guess that Lowell would be. Pedrioa has the makeup to be a captian, but he hasn't been around long enough.

is lowell healthy and on track to be ready opening day? i thought he was hurt. bad hip???

Accroding to reports. He's ahead of schedule on his rehab from hip surgery.

Here's just hoping he can contribute even if he is healthy. From everything I've read about the surgery, he should be able to. I wouldn't expect 2006 or 7 Lowell, with 100 RBIs. I think he'll be fine in the last days of his contract. especially with Lars Anderson on track. BA just did the Top Prospects ( although I haven't bought the book yet ). The Mighty Red Sox Farm team is ranked #6 in the Majors, and Lars Anderson is ranked #1 for a first base prospect.

All of the younger players are well on their way.....just not exactly at catcher yet.

[Machado]

All of the younger players are well on their way.....just not exactly at catcher yet.

interesting that your team and the Yankees don't have a "top prospect" at the catcher position?
do these teams mirror each other much?

[JakeYonkel]

Surprised Boston hasn't given Julio Lugo away quite yet. I figure they're ready to move forward with Lowrie at short. Unless they're going to use Lugo as a supersub since he can play like 7 positions.

[killeverything]

All of the younger players are well on their way.....just not exactly at catcher yet.

interesting that your team and the Yankees don't have a "top prospect" at the catcher position?
do these teams mirror each other much?

Just a little.

What I'm interested in is what's going to happen when Mauer is a FA. I hope we stay the fuck away, but both NY and Boston will be in the need. Talk about a bidding war....with a secret team. Wait is Boras his agent?

Surprised Boston hasn't given Julio Lugo away quite yet. I figure they're ready to move forward with Lowrie at short. Unless they're going to use Lugo as a supersub since he can play like 7 positions.

Give him away to whom? Not without eating practically all of his contract. Even then teams would probably want a couple bags of balls too. Then that would piss me off. That's our bag of extra balls Goddamnit. Get your own.

Lugo is saying that he's going to compete in ST for the SS job back. Plans on playing his best, blah, blah, blah. He's a pull hitter so the FO thought he would thrive in Fenway. I've been against the the guy being a part of this team since it was mentioned. I half think they brought him on to appease Manny, since they're really good friends. Still their stuck with him.

As for play like 7 positions. What? Okay in that logic anyone with a glove could play anywhere, if you don't play ANY of them good. Ortiz could stand in CF or stand at 3rd base. Would you want him too?

[Machado]

Last night I was going over what could be the Yankees opening day roster.

I predict they will take 12 pitchers and 13 position players.

So let's say they indeed take 12 pitchers.
That leaves 4 reserves on the bench
Molina-C
Swisher-OF, 1B
Ransom or Berroa-IF
Garnder or Mekly, OF

Unless someone surprised the team in ST and plays so well that he has to make the team, there are only 2 bench positions up for grabs.

Is that a positive or a negative???

[Machado]

On paper, I would say it looks good. The lesser the questions, the better, at least for me. However, its an older team and A-Rod's already asshurt so you're only looking at paper right now.

I still think Posada is a big question mark. And I'm not sold on CF either. And hopefully Joba gets back to relief.

You are right about Posada. He is on a throwing program and the Yankees feel he can be ready for opening day of '09.
As for CF, well Melky and Gardner are not house-hold names, but they are what we have for now. Swisher has also played CF, but I'm not sure he is an everyday CF.

An older team? An older team? Compared to what? Last year...I'm not sure
about that.

Anyway, Joba is not coming back to the pen. It was reported here by someone that Joba stated he was told he would be a starter.

So there you go!!

[killeverything]

Last night I was going over what could be the Yankees opening day roster.

I predict they will take 12 pitchers and 13 position players.

So let's say they indeed take 12 pitchers.
That leaves 4 reserves on the bench
Molina-C
Swisher-OF, 1B
Ransom or Berroa-IF
Garnder or Mekly, OF

Unless someone surprised the team in ST and plays so well that he has to make the team, there are only 2 bench positions up for grabs.

Is that a positive or a negative???

I'm 50-50 on it. It's good not too have any holes, but it's the beginning of the season. I wouldn't worry too much about it. You can never have too much pitching. You can have too many outfielders or second basemen.

[killeverything]

On paper, I would say it looks good. The lesser the questions, the better, at least for me. However, its an older team and A-Rod's already asshurt so you're only looking at paper right now.

I still think Posada is a big question mark. And I'm not sold on CF either. And hopefully Joba gets back to relief.

You are right about Posada. He is on a throwing program and the Yankees feel he can be ready for opening day of '09.
As for CF, well Melky and Gardner are not house-hold names, but they are what we have for now. Swisher has also played CF, but I'm not sure he is an everyday CF.

An older team? An older team? Compared to what? Last year...I'm not sure
about that.

Anyway, Joba is not coming back to the pen. It was reported here by someone that Joba stated he was told he would be a starter.

So there you go!!

It was by me. Joba was on MLB Hotstove last nite talking about it.

Posada is basically Lowell this season. Both should be serviceable. Yet, I don't think either will be as good. Especially the monster season Posada put up in 2007 ( .144GM 338/.426/.543 422B 20HR ). I wouldn't worry about CF either. There's not a Williams, Mantle, Dimaggio type out there, but it looks to me like CF is covered fine. I expect Swisher to be a "Brocious type."

The MFY are getting younger. They're tied to contracts with older players, but aside from the Matsui/Posada question marks. That only leaves Jeter, Traitor, and Pettite. All 3 have yet to "fall off". Especially Jetes.

[killeverything]

The Diamondbacks have a deal in place for Jon Garland.

The Diamondbacks' already-formidable rotation is about to get even stronger.

Arizona has agreed to a one-year deal with free-agent right-hander Jon Garland, the Arizona Republic reported on its Web site. Garland will join a rotation headed by 2006 Cy Young winner Brandon Webb, two-time All-Star Dan Haren and Doug Davis.

While terms of the deal were not immediately available, the Republic reported that the guaranteed money is for somewhere between $6 million and $8 million, and contains an option year for 2010.

Do you think that will make LAD push harder for Manny? With the Dbacks and SF's rotations. The weakest division in baseball got a lot better. Both Arizona and San Fran have the pitching in place.