Hey War Boarders, hows that hopey-changey thing working out?

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

I like it a lot better than the depression and same old shit thing we had last year. Thanks for asking.

Hmmm... Let's see... The recession is officially over, the USA no longer tortures people, denies them due legal process and locks them in secret prisons and there is that Nobel Prize thing. You're right. He is doing an awesome job.

The recession's over?! Whoo Hoo! Oh, wait. What's the unemployment rate again? How's the dollar doing?

Some human rights activists said they were less concerned about the actual closing date than about indications that the administration would continue to keep several dozen prisoners in some kind of indefinite detention.

"If you are just going to move people to the United States and hold them without charge here, it will continue to be a source of outrage. We think it's crucial that Guantanamo be closed in a meaningful way," said Joanne Mariner, terrorism and counter-terrorism director at Human Rights Watch.

AWESOME!!!

You used to seem rather reasonable and intelligent but reading this drivel today is like watching Jordan playing for the Wizards.

[JakeYonkel]

Scorp! Welcome back. How the hell's it going?

[Scorpio88]

You used to seem rather reasonable and intelligent but reading this drivel today is like watching Jordan playing for the Wizards.

Thank you for the compliment, (I think...) and the civil response. But honestly it's a bit premature to declare recession's over. And it's still too soon to fully assess the whole Gitmo situation because its not fully resolved yet. And in some other security areas, there is simply a continuation of the Bush policies that everyone said they hated.

I am glad Obama makes some people feel better, but really he better get his ass in gear soon and start creating some jobs or he's gonna be a one termer for sure.

[Scorpio88]

Scorp! Welcome back. How the hell's it going?

Hey Jake! How the hell are ya? How's the family? Your little one must be huge by now!

I'm doing well. Going to grad school in fact. I have a job so I can't complain!

Boy things sure have changed here. I miss all the old gang.

[Scorpio88]

You're criticizing her for following precedent and ruling in favor of local government? You would have preferred judicial activism and a overreaching judiciary?

indeed. That was my reaction when she was reversed by SCOTUS.

blah, blah, blah.

No point in debating economics with you. We both have our opinions and neither of us is going to change our minds.

You apparently take issue with Greenspan. Well, Clinton thought he was good enough to stay didn't he? You presume to know what I think. You don't. I agreed with some of Greenspan's actions. Other actions I didn't.

It's been a major theme the entire time I've been here...Well, if you don't like one guy that must mean you love the other one. If you share certain ideas with someone that must mean you agree with them 100%. That's just bullshit.

[Scorpio88]

Uh, gee, yeah. There is no difference between 6.1% (one % above "full employment) and over 9.5%. None at all. And Romer says it's gonna up and stay that high for at least another year, and that the "stimulus" has done all its gonna do.

If you want to claim that's just fine and dandy go right ahead. No worries, right? Obama's giving people hope. And who needs a job when you have hope.

Yeah, its hard to call someone who it pro-life a libertarian. Really hard. It's not like the Libertarian Party would ever nominate a pro-life candidate. Would they? (Why did you leave that part about pro-life 1988 Libertarian Party presidential candidate Ron Paul out of your cut and paste job?) Are you saying you can define what a libertarian is better than the Libertarian Party?

And Milton Freidman still thinks you're an asshole from his grave.

[Scorpio88]

Passenger: Scorpio's been here forever, just sayin'.

Huh, thanks for the heads up Bane. You know, I didn't check the date of registration line, just saw a 66 post count in my periphery and ran with it. If he's been here for that long, there must be a reason that I haven't noticed. Probably the absence of anything original to say.

Yeah, I don't come here much anymore. When I first joined sludge back in the ez-board days 8 years ago there were a ton of cool people who posted on the War Board.

Most of them are gone now or only post sporadically and now most of the posters here are assholes. So I don't bother too often.

[pooldude]

...most of the posters here are assholes.

I'd suggest Scorpio take a long look in the mirror, & think a little harder before speaking.

Of course, he's been coming here for 8 years, & he's in graduate school now.

[Scorpio88]

...most of the posters here are assholes.

I'd suggest Scorpio take a long look in the mirror, & think a little harder before speaking.

Of course, he's been coming here for 8 years, & he's in graduate school now.

FYI. When I look in the mirror I see a girl.

Yeah, I can be an asshole sometimes. So what?

[tin00can]

Why can't we have a discussion about how badly Obama sucks without someone bringing up Bush?

What other measurement do we have for presidents, than comparing them to previous presidents? I suppose we should compare him to perhaps a stockbroker, or maybe a teacher. Would that make more sense?

Also, isn't it a wee bit early to be throwing the dirt on Obama's coffin? Yeah, I haven't been happy with what he's done so far, but he still has over 3/4 of his term left.

Strange, I don't remember you being this shrill.

[Scorpio88]

What other measurement do we have for presidents, than comparing them to previous presidents? I suppose we should compare him to perhaps a stockbroker, or maybe a teacher. Would that make more sense?

Also, isn't it a wee bit early to be throwing the dirt on Obama's coffin? Yeah, I haven't been happy with what he's done so far, but he still has over 3/4 of his term left.

Strange, I don't remember you being this shrill.

How am I shrill? Because someone with a brain here actually dares to question dear leader?

I just see most of the Bush stuff not as attempts to make a true comparison, but more deflecting blame and making excuses because they can't articulate anything positive about Obama. (except for hope)

You can measure his performance without the comparison. What are OBAMA'S accomplishments? Do you agree with the actions OBAMA taken so far? Do you think OBAMA'S actions are working? Has OBAMA done what he said he would do? It's not that hard. (at least not for anyone with half a brain and decent debating skills.)

Pooldude at least attempted to cite some stuff, even if I don't agree with his assessment, at least he put some stuff out there. Bane had something he liked. Everyone else took shots at me, Bush or McCain.

Of course his performance should be put in the proper context-but we all know what the situation was when he took office, and we all know he's only had 10 months-a decent amount of time to judge. No need to bring Bush up at all.

[EvilMadman]

I like it a lot better than the depression and same old shit thing we had last year. Thanks for asking.

Hmmm... Let's see... The recession is officially over, the USA no longer tortures people, denies them due legal process and locks them in secret prisons and there is that Nobel Prize thing. You're right. He is doing an awesome job.

The recession's over?! Whoo Hoo! Oh, wait. What's the unemployment rate again? How's the dollar doing?

Some human rights activists said they were less concerned about the actual closing date than about indications that the administration would continue to keep several dozen prisoners in some kind of indefinite detention.

"If you are just going to move people to the United States and hold them without charge here, it will continue to be a source of outrage. We think it's crucial that Guantanamo be closed in a meaningful way," said Joanne Mariner, terrorism and counter-terrorism director at Human Rights Watch.

AWESOME!!!

Though not exactly at great depression levels (thankfully), the current unemployment rate is still pretty high (over 9% average the last time I heard).

http://www.bls.gov/web/laumstrk.htm

And the current value of the U.S. dollar is still weak.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/bu ... 01,00.html

The U.S. government really needs to adopt a strong dollar policy.

But on the bright side, the stock market seemed to have rebounded rather nicely (it's just over, or hovering around 10,000). But I guess that doesn't mean a real lot if you have children to feed, a mortgage or rent to pay, and no job, huh?

The White House really shouldn't be breaking out the bubbly just yet.

Oh, yeah. I wonder if Human Rights Watch Director Joanne Mariner would mind taking in all of those poor, innocent, abused, Al-Qaeda/Taliban suspects?

[HollywoodBomb]

Where's the anti-war mom?

[Woland]

damn.

[tin00can]

What other measurement do we have for presidents, than comparing them to previous presidents? I suppose we should compare him to perhaps a stockbroker, or maybe a teacher. Would that make more sense?

Also, isn't it a wee bit early to be throwing the dirt on Obama's coffin? Yeah, I haven't been happy with what he's done so far, but he still has over 3/4 of his term left.

Strange, I don't remember you being this shrill.

How am I shrill? Because someone with a brain here actually dares to question dear leader?

I just see most of the Bush stuff not as attempts to make a true comparison, but more deflecting blame and making excuses because they can't articulate anything positive about Obama. (except for hope)

You can measure his performance without the comparison. What are OBAMA'S accomplishments? Do you agree with the actions OBAMA taken so far? Do you think OBAMA'S actions are working? Has OBAMA done what he said he would do? It's not that hard. (at least not for anyone with half a brain and decent debating skills.)

Pooldude at least attempted to cite some stuff, even if I don't agree with his assessment, at least he put some stuff out there. Bane had something he liked. Everyone else took shots at me, Bush or McCain.

Of course his performance should be put in the proper context-but we all know what the situation was when he took office, and we all know he's only had 10 months-a decent amount of time to judge. No need to bring Bush up at all.

Actually, I voted libertarian, although to be honest I did prefer Obama over McCain. And so far, Obama hasn't impressed me at all. I can't think of one thing he's done so far that I approve of. I'm very interested to see where he goes with the wars in the middle east and the closing of Gitmo, but the jury is obviously still out on those. And as for Obama having ten months and that being enough: didn't Clinton get the blame for 9/11? So nine months isn't enough but ten months is?

That said, I too am sick of hearing about Bush. Bush recession, Bush war, etc. For god's sake, shut the fuck up about Bush, Obama and company! You campaigned for this job, you wanted it, it's yours. Quit bitching about and blaming your predecessor.

[pooldude]

I too am sick of hearing about Bush. Bush recession, Bush war, etc. For god's sake, shut the fuck up about Bush, Obama and company! You campaigned for this job, you wanted it, it's yours. Quit bitching about and blaming your predecessor.

Mr Bush & Co had 8 years to steer the economy into the ditch.

It's unrealistic to expect Mr Obama to snap his fingers & solve all our problems in his 1st 8 months.

Obama fans didn't start this thread, telling everyone how wonderful things are.

For all the various snarky comments, I'm seeing very little in the way of presenting any candidate who had any clearer vision, or who might have done any better job, given the inherited situation.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

I too am sick of hearing about Bush. Bush recession, Bush war, etc. For god's sake, shut the fuck up about Bush, Obama and company! You campaigned for this job, you wanted it, it's yours. Quit bitching about and blaming your predecessor.

Mr Bush & Co had 8 years to steer the economy into the ditch.

It's unrealistic to expect Mr Obama to snap his fingers & solve all our problems in his 1st 8 months.

Obama fans didn't start this thread, telling everyone how wonderful things are.

For all the various snarky comments, I'm seeing very little in the way of presenting any candidate who had any clearer vision, or who might have done any better job, given the inherited situation.

And you won't. They already put up their best candidate and he was found lacking.

[Woland]

eh, now i feel like saying it...

being an old war board member - seeing jake and scorpio talking about the 'good fun' times is a bit funny.

there was lots of fun for sure, but considering all the racist and ignorant shit some of you have posted and stood up for...

you know, like 'don't come here unless you speak english' and 'arabs are the scum of the earth'...

i have to say, you're both full of it and i sadly agree with what these fucks are saying.

<3.

[JakeYonkel]

Yeah, I'm shocked at you agreeing with all the liberals here. Utterly shocked.

I don't recall ever pulling the "speak English or GTFO" card but I will take claim to saying that the middle east should have been made into a giant parking lot.

[Woland]

'the liberals.'

see, jake - you haven't matured one bit at all.

you don't recall that avatar of yours with the 'this is america. order in english only' sign?

[absolutely fabulous]

It's unrealistic to expect Mr Obama to snap his fingers & solve all our problems in his 1st 8 months.

and what has he solved thus far?

[bane]

Is there something wrong with expecting people to speak English in America Woland? I'm an avid immigration rights guy. I'm very anti "deport em all by God", but I hold pretty strong to Teddy R's, "Bring us you poor and tired but adapt to our way of life" mantra.

[JakeYonkel]

It was funny to me that a business owner would have the sack to put that in his front window, given how PC we've become as a society.

And yeah, you should speak English to live here just as I should speak Greek if I wanted to live in Greece. And I resent having to "press 1" to speak the fucking language that's been spoken here for hundreds of years.

All this coming from somebody married to a Puerto Rican who does have family here that don't speak any English.

[pooldude]

...And I resent having to "press 1" to speak the fucking language that's been spoken here for hundreds of years.

All this coming from somebody married to a Puerto Rican who does have family here that don't speak any English.

They've been speaking Spanish throughout the American South & West since the 1500s.

The 1st permanent English colony wasn't established until almost 100 years later.

Just an observation.

Carry on, Jake.

[bane]

It depends on where you live, obviously, but I firmly believe that people who immigrate here should endeavor to acclimate. There are plenty of people in places like New Mexico who have lived there for 400 years and still maintain a Spanish speaking culture that predates the US. Those people are as native as anyone in this country is, but those are exceptions. "Please press one for English" is not put in place to accomodate that very small minority. Those people are by and large bilingual anyway. It's there for the growing immigrant population that hasn't acclimated yet.

[Crazy Levi]

It depends on where you live, obviously, but I firmly believe that people who immigrate here should endeavor to acclimate. There are plenty of people in places like New Mexico who have lived there for 400 years and still maintain a Spanish speaking culture that predates the US. Those people are as native as anyone in this country is, but those are exceptions. "Please press one for English" is not put in place to accomodate that very small minority. Those people are by and large bilingual anyway. It's there for the growing immigrant population that hasn't acclimated yet.

It's a complete non-issue to me, as are most of the "social" complaints that right-wingers tend to have.

You don't want to learn English? Fine, who gives a fuck. Why does anybody care? If someone wants to communicate with me but can't because they don't speak English, I guess it's thier problem.

I have never in my life in America not been able to go about my daily routine without inconvinience because of some kind of language barrier.

[bane]

It depends on where you live, obviously, but I firmly believe that people who immigrate here should endeavor to acclimate. There are plenty of people in places like New Mexico who have lived there for 400 years and still maintain a Spanish speaking culture that predates the US. Those people are as native as anyone in this country is, but those are exceptions. "Please press one for English" is not put in place to accomodate that very small minority. Those people are by and large bilingual anyway. It's there for the growing immigrant population that hasn't acclimated yet.

It's a complete non-issue to me, as are most of the "social" complaints that right-wingers tend to have.

You don't want to learn English? Fine, who gives a fuck. Why does anybody care? If someone wants to communicate with me but can't because they don't speak English, I guess it's thier problem.

I have never in my life in America not been able to go about my daily routine without inconvinience because of some kind of language barrier.

I agree with most of that. I don't find it all that inconvenient. I'm bilingual anyway, and the extra 3 seconds I spend on the phone listening to a "please press 1 for English" message aren't costing me much of my life, but I think there is something to be said for being resistant to change. At the current rate, the US will be a bilingual country before long. A language barrier may not be an issue now, but it will be eventually. 30 years ago our public schools didn't send out all their literature in both languages. The DMV test wasn't available in both languages etc. I can see a time coming where English only will be a handicap.

[Woland]

there's nothing wrong with speaking english.

but there's something fucked up in wanting people to be forced to speak the goddamn language when there's a million of tourists out there who don't fucking bother to learn the language and strangely... they don't get treated like shit by the inhabitants. who would be an ass to someone who is bringing over money? yet....

why do you have to make such a big deal out of people not being able to speak english? how the fuck does that affect your every day life?

i only say this because being in a french province - you'd be surprised by the number of french speaking people who HATE hearing people speaking english here. just because we live in a fucking french province. they want everyone to speak the same shitty french tongue.

it's all racism deep down. you're judging someone because they haven't had the same opportunity as you to learn a new language.

i don't reckon any of you knowing any native languages. don't pretend english is the sole language of the americas. there were french, spanish, german, portuguese... etc, settlers also, you know.

[JakeYonkel]

Tourism is different. If you go to most major international cities you can get by with English BECAUSE they see dollar signs when they look at you. Venture into the countryside... different story.

I speak enough Spanish to get by, so that when I went to Puerto Rico and was in the mountain towns and shit where nobody speaks English, I wasn't going to be "that guy" and force everyone to try and accomodate me. I think it shows a lack of respect and courtesy otherwise.

This thread is quickly devolving into something that it wasn't intended, and I think your cry of "racism" is, frankly, bullshit. I don't have a problem with a second language being a requirement in public schools but if you live here, not visit... you need to able to communicate, and not expect people to cater to you.

FTR, my wife's family that moved over here that speak literally no English obviously had a tough time finding work. They wound up working as custodians in the schools because those jobs require very little interaction and I guess it wouldn't take long to figure out what "clean that desk" means. But they were clearly severely limited by their language barrier, no matter how eduated they are.

[pooldude]

What do they call a person who speaks several languages?

A: multilingual

What do they call a person who speaks 2 languages?

A: bilingual

What do they call a person who can only speak one language?

A: a patriotic American