Obama-Haiti-job rating

[Ugmo]

Use tax payer dollars to purchase stock in private companies, then hand that stock over to union interests, who pretty much deliver block voting to his party

I don't know anything about this. Could you provide a source so I could check it out?

Use tax payer money to bail out the banks, and then use that to dictate private wages, and negate legally negotiated contracts.

Taxpayer bailouts are neither new nor socialist. Reagan for example bailed out the savings and loan banks, and this current round of bailouts was introduced by GWB, both of whom of course were famous socialists. Did he really dictate private wages? My impression is that he's spent a lot of time chastising the banks but they've pretty much done whatever the hell they've wanted - including not actually lend the money out like they were supposed to.

A heavy progressive tax.

This one HAS to be a joke. Heavily progressive? You are not serious. Obama's tax policy is the second least progressive in U.S. history, along with Clinton's and behind GWB's. The top tax rate under Ike Eisenhower was 90 percent - was he a socialist?

Eliminating the end of the Death Tax

How does this make him a socialist? Are all taxes tantamount to socialism? If so, then the U.S. has always been a socialist country. And who introduced the estate tax? Didn't GWB also fail to repeal the estate tax - was he a socialist too?

The federal reserve banking system (well, others used it too)

Exactly - if this is socialist, then every U.S. president from FDR to GWB and Obama has been a socialist. This is a crock and you know it.

A "fairness czar" to oversee 'objectionable' material that radio and tv broadcast.

What is this all about? I googled it and every single source I found on it was a right-wing nutjob site. Every single one.


Honestly dude, you just did a pretty pathetic job of demonstrating that Obama is more of a socialist than GWB, GHWB, Reagan, Ford, Nixon or Ike. In fact, by your standards he's less of a socialist than all of those guys except GWB.

[VinnieKulick]

Use tax payer dollars to purchase stock in private companies, then hand that stock over to union interests, who pretty much deliver block voting to his party

I don't know anything about this. Could you provide a source so I could check it out?

Use tax payer money to bail out the banks, and then use that to dictate private wages, and negate legally negotiated contracts.

Taxpayer bailouts are neither new nor socialist. Reagan for example bailed out the savings and loan banks, and this current round of bailouts was introduced by GWB, both of whom of course were famous socialists. Did he really dictate private wages? My impression is that he's spent a lot of time chastising the banks but they've pretty much done whatever the hell they've wanted - including not actually lend the money out like they were supposed to.

A heavy progressive tax.

This one HAS to be a joke. Heavily progressive? You are not serious. Obama's tax policy is the second least progressive in U.S. history, along with Clinton's and behind GWB's. The top tax rate under Ike Eisenhower was 90 percent - was he a socialist?

Eliminating the end of the Death Tax

How does this make him a socialist? Are all taxes tantamount to socialism? If so, then the U.S. has always been a socialist country. And who introduced the estate tax? Didn't GWB also fail to repeal the estate tax - was he a socialist too?

The federal reserve banking system (well, others used it too)

Exactly - if this is socialist, then every U.S. president from FDR to GWB and Obama has been a socialist. This is a crock and you know it.

A "fairness czar" to oversee 'objectionable' material that radio and tv broadcast.

What is this all about? I googled it and every single source I found on it was a right-wing nutjob site. Every single one.


Honestly dude, you just did a pretty pathetic job of demonstrating that Obama is more of a socialist than GWB, GHWB, Reagan, Ford, Nixon or Ike. In fact, by your standards he's less of a socialist than all of those guys except GWB.

On my way out the door for school, if i find time between classes I'll expand more on what I wrote.
If not, I'll do it when I get home.

Oh, and just because Regan and GWB did it, doesn't mean it was okay either.

[Ugmo]

On my way out the door for school, if i find time between classes I'll expand more on what I wrote.
If not, I'll do it when I get home.

Oh, and just because Regan and GWB did it, doesn't mean it was okay either.

- Okay

- But did the right-wing become all hysterical about the "socialist" direction the country was headed in under Reagan or GWB... or is it more likely that these things have fuck-all to do with socialism? I'm going with the latter.

[thejuggernaut]

A "fairness czar" to oversee 'objectionable' material that radio and tv broadcast.

What is this all about? I googled it and every single source I found on it was a right-wing nutjob site. Every single one.

Cass Sunstein is a good start.

[Ugmo]

Cass Sunstein is a good start.

Okay, I've been reading about this guy on wiki, and I still am not sure how this makes Obama a socialist.

Or is "socialist" just a codeword for everything his opponents hate about him?

[thejuggernaut]

Cass Sunstein is a good start.

Okay, I've been reading about this guy on wiki, and I still am not sure how this makes Obama a socialist.

Or is "socialist" just a codeword for everything his opponents hate about him?

Of course you don't.

[Ugmo]

Okay then, I'll just assume this is more hysteria from the right wing then, if you're not willing to explain it.

[thejuggernaut]

Okay then, I'll just assume this is more hysteria from the right wing then, if you're not willing to explain it.

No problem.

I'll just assume this is more denial from the left wing then, if you're not willing to research it.

[Ugmo]

I just did research it. I read the guy's entire long-ass wikipedia page. What about this dude makes Obama a socialist? If you can't back it up, then it's a bullshit claim.

I mean, of course it's a bullshit claim anyway, because "Boo! Socialist!" is the right-wing's go-to strategy every time a Democrat gets elected.

[thejuggernaut]

I just did research it. I read the guy's entire long-ass wikipedia page. What about this dude makes Obama a socialist? If you can't back it up, then it's a bullshit claim.

I mean, of course it's a bullshit claim anyway, because "Boo! Socialist!" is the right-wing's go-to strategy every time a Democrat gets elected.

You can start by looking somewhere other than wiki.

Pay particular attention to his view regarding the internet.

[vlad]

My kingdom for a rightie who actually understands the meaning of the word socialism.

Were you all dropped on your heads as babies?

Just because a nation doesn't go 100% socialist, doesn't make some of the actions of it's government NOT socialist when they do it.

meh...everyday I drive across the beautiful 'socialistic" bridge that FDR's socialism brought us, on the highway that his darn near commie works created on the West Coast...if you ever visit Mt. Hood and enjoy the venerable Timberline Lodge..or if your parents or grandparents aren't eating dogfood, you can thank that fucking government for it. I could go on and on about the things you take for granted every fucking day of your life that "socialism" has given you...

OMGZ! Socialism! Why we won't be Americans anymore!

If I don't respond right away it's because something is stretching the page and it's annoying the hell out of me...I'll wait for the next page.

[Ugmo]

You can start by looking somewhere other than wiki.

Pay particular attention to his view regarding the internet.

How about you provide a link that is more reputable than wiki (i.e. not some right-wing nutjob site). You are the one asserting that he's a socialist, so the burden of proof is on you. If you're not willing to back it up then your claim is bullshite.

[thejuggernaut]

You can start by looking somewhere other than wiki.

Pay particular attention to his view regarding the internet.

How about you provide a link that is more reputable than wiki (i.e. not some right-wing nutjob site). You are the one asserting that he's a socialist, so the burden of proof is on you. If you're not willing to back it up then your claim is bullshite.

You're the one asserting he's not, in spite of his associations and appointments.

If it walks like a duck......

The burden of proof is on you.

[Ugmo]

Haha... the President of the United States is a socialist until proven innocent. Gotcha.

Bizarro world. I'll take that as a capitulation on your part, since you're either unwilling or unable to back up the assertion by a bunch of right-wingers on this thread that the president of the world's foremost capitalist country is actually a socialist.

[thejuggernaut]

Haha... the President of the United States is a socialist until proven innocent. Gotcha.

Bizarro world. I'll take that as a capitulation on your part, since you're either unwilling or unable to back up the assertion by a bunch of right-wingers on this thread that the president of the world's foremost capitalist country is actually a socialist.

Yeah, you do that.

While you're at it, why don't you actually READ some of Sunstein's writings and then get back to me.

[Ugmo]

Okay Juggs, I know your modus operandi is to be cryptic until people give up debating you out of pure frustration, but humor me here - jump over your shadow. Explain to me in simple terms why it is obvious that Obama is a socialist. Pretend I'm as dumb as everyone who voted for Dubya twice and spell it out to me in simple terms. I would really appreciate that. If it's as obvious as you say, it should be very easy to explain, right?

[thejuggernaut]

Okay Juggs, I know your modus operandi is to be cryptic until people give up debating you out of pure frustration, but humor me here - jump over your shadow. Explain to me in simple terms why it is obvious that Obama is a socialist. Pretend I'm as dumb as everyone who voted for Dubya twice and spell it out to me in simple terms. I would really appreciate that. If it's as obvious as you say, it should be very easy to explain, right?

Was giving you the author's name too "cryptic" for you ?

Would you like some book titles too ?

[Ugmo]

So Obama hired some guy that you personally consider to be a socialist... is that it?

The sky is falling! Run for the hills! Red Dawn! The Red Peril is upon us!

I guess this makes sense, since Dubya was obviously a Nazi.

[thejuggernaut]

So Obama hired some guy that you personally consider to be a socialist... is that it?

The sky is falling! Run for the hills! Red Dawn! The Red Peril is upon us!

I guess this makes sense, since Dubya was obviously a Nazi.

Yeah, must be it.

Start.

[VinnieKulick]

Why is the fairness czar a bad idea? Because when a government seeks to put limits on what you can say, and who you can say it to, it goes against our first amendment in every way, shape and form. (controlling the media)

And, when the people in power are so buddy buddy with huge labor unions, that's a bad, bad deal as well. Google Andy Stern and see some of the things he believes in. (controlling the workforce)

And why did the right not get mad at Bush? Did you pay attention? Did the Tea Party news not make it over to Europe? People who are fiscally conservative were complaining left and right about it.

When the country already has a history of slight changes to our system that puts the needs of the recipients of government aid over the rights of the people who pay into the system, the big spending and big power grabs are frightful.

[Ugmo]

Why is the fairness czar a bad idea? Because when a government seeks to put limits on what you can say, and who you can say it to, it goes against our first amendment in every way, shape and form. (controlling the media)

Okay, so who is this "fairness czar" and what did he say? Like I said, I googled it and ALL I found was a slew of right-wing lunatic sites jabbering about it.

And, when the people in power are so buddy buddy with huge labor unions, that's a bad, bad deal as well. Google Andy Stern and see some of the things he believes in. (controlling the workforce)

As opposed to when people in power are buddy buddy with huge corporations? That isn't a bad idea? Like when the Vice President awards an enormous no-bid contract to a company he used to run? So I googled Andy Stern and it appears the guy has contributed a shit-load of money to Democratic campaign causes. And you know, that's a shame. But strangely it bothers me a lot less than when assholes like Ted Haggard contribute a shitload of money to Republican causes in exchange for influence with the White House.

And why did the right not get mad at Bush? Did you pay attention? Did the Tea Party news not make it over to Europe? People who are fiscally conservative were complaining left and right about it.

This is as silly as your claim about a heavily progressive tax. Bush and fiscal responsibility? HAHA! That's why the Tea Party movement is as hypocritical as it gets. They claim to be upset about fiscal irresponsibility, yet they weren't protesting Bush's fiscal irresponsibility. They're fine with the government running deficits in the hundreds of billions as long as it's a Republican spending their grandkids' money.

When the country already has a history of slight changes to our system that puts the needs of the recipients of government aid over the rights of the people who pay into the system, the big spending and big power grabs are frightful.

If this is your definition of socialism, then the Republicans are just as guilty of it - it's just that their government aid goes to huge corporations.


Again, none of what you have posted even remotely makes Obama a socialist. What you guys are listing is a bunch of really tenuous links to people who have more left-leaning views than you guys do, so that somehow makes Obama a socialist...

[Ugmo]

"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody"- Barack Obama

Which he has done by raising the top tax rate to 39 percent - a mere 51 percentage points below the rate under that famous socialist "Chairman Ike" Eisenhower.

[Ugmo]

In conclusion, I'm glad I asked the question, because it's obvious that you guys do not indeed understand what socialism is.

[tin00can]

I love people bitching about socialist "czars" like Obama was the first one to appoint them.

[thejuggernaut]

In conclusion, I'm glad the question was asked, because it's obvious that you guys do not indeed understand what fabian socialism is.

[Ugmo]

What you guys are suggesting would be like me suggesting the Bush presidency was a theocracy because of the influence of the religious right. Unless you can point to actual socialism in Obama's actual policies (and raising the top tax rate by 3 percent doesn't count, sorry), then you are misusing the term.

[VinnieKulick]

Ugmo, with all due respect, I think it's a bit wrong that you want to sit in Europe and say that people weren't upset with Bush's spending, simply because they were Republicans.

And, if you had been to any of the initial Tea Party protests, you would know, it was Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Communists, Socialists, all there protesting the massive spending together.

I didn't like the huge government expansion under Bush.
I don't like the huge government expansion under Obama, and I am scared shitless over the prospects of Obama getting a lot of his 'ideas' passed.

Despite what the left will tell you, a LOT of Republicans didn't like Bush, and except for his stance on Defense, they more or less loathed him. (and before anybody asked, those who didn't like him but voted for him anyway against Kerry, it was because Kerry was a HORRIBLE candidate)

But, you won't hear that on the TV, you won't read it on the internet, or in your papers, because it helps lump people who want less government all together in one big group, and that's simply not true.

[Ugmo]

People obviously weren't upset about it enough to march on the capital like they did under Obama. Come on, these morons show up with signs depicting Obama with a Hitler mustache. They don't give two shits about the spending. They're just butt-hurt that their guy lost in November 08, and it's their way of expressing their frustration at it. Not to mention that this whole "grass roots" tea party movement was demonstrably promoted by Fox News.

And if they really are concerned about the spending then they are hypocrites, because they weren't willing to protest Bush's overspending. Simple as that.

[VinnieKulick]

Well, when the Tea Party Tax day protests went down, I can assure you, it wasn't only GOP there, and not everybody heard about it from Fox News.

And, with Bush going out of office, what good would a protest do to him? Not to mention, Bush's spending was a pittance compared to what Obama's done, so the outrage is a bit more warranted.

[Ugmo]

Well, when the Tea Party Tax day protests went down, I can assure you, it wasn't only GOP there, and not everybody heard about it from Fox News.

And, with Bush going out of office, what good would a protest do to him? Not to mention, Bush's spending was a pittance compared to what Obama's done, so the outrage is a bit more warranted.

Bush overspent right from day one. They had eight years to protest and didn't consider it to be worth their time.

It wasn't a pittance. The guy was running 400 billion dollar deficits. That's worthy of protest if it's actually the spending you're upset about and not the fact that your (referring to the Tea Partiers here, not you specifically) guy lost the election.