Obama-Haiti-job rating

[VinnieKulick]

I know you won't believe me, but I didn't see a whole lot of support for McCain from the true conservatives, so "our guy" didn't lose.

And a $400 billion dollar deficit is a LOT less than the TRILLIONS that Obama wants to spend.

And, I am sure if you dug around here some, you'd find posts by me where I said I didn't like Bush's spending.

[Ugmo]

Spin it however you want, but the fact is....

By tenure, the largest increases in gross debt relative to GDP occurred under George H.W. Bush (+13.1%), George W. Bush (+18.1%), and Ronald Reagan (+20.5%).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_d ... tial_terms


Conservatives talk a good game of fiscal responsibility, but their politicians are terrible at it and it still doesn't occur to them to protest that. That's why I don't believe the Tea Party movement is actually about spending - it's about politics. Sorry.

[VinnieKulick]

Spin it however you want, but the fact is....

By tenure, the largest increases in gross debt relative to GDP occurred under George H.W. Bush (+13.1%), George W. Bush (+18.1%), and Ronald Reagan (+20.5%).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_d ... tial_terms


Conservatives talk a good game of fiscal responsibility, but their politicians are terrible at it and it still doesn't occur to them to protest that. That's why I don't believe the Tea Party movement is actually about spending - it's about politics. Sorry.

Conservative POLITICIANS talk about financial responsibility. But a lot of times their actions are NOT the value that the vast, VAST majority of people who believe in fiscal responsibility and conservatism.

And, it's nice to include the graphs without the context. Reagan was rebuilding a military decimated by the Carter administration, and building up to outpace the USSR.

GHWB had a bit of spending that had to be done early in his four years, which would account for the slight raise in his amounts.

Clinton benefited from a peace dividend created when the USSR broke up, not to mention the military draw down that was ordered under GHWB's tenure, as well as the elimination of the welfare dole that people were on.

GWB had a few wars he was running, and a new federal department that he had to set up. This does NOT excuse the OTHER spending he did in any way, whatsoever.

And, Obama just asked the congress to raise the debt limits by over a trillion dollars. That's a trillion dollars OVER what the previous debt ceiling was.

[Ugmo]

See, it looks to me like you're looking for ways to justify Republican spending. Reeps run up huge deficits, but that's just fine, because yada yada yada. Obama runs up huge deficits and people are mad as hell, and they're not gonna take it anymore!

Either you're a fiscal conservative or you aren't. You can't pick and choose when it's okay to run up 400 billion dollar deficits if you're serious about your fiscal conservative tag.

P.s. Nice dig at Carter, who actually was the fiscal conservative you claim to want in a president, unlike the three guys with the (R) next to their names.

[VinnieKulick]

Not making excuses at all, just pointing out that SOME of the spending was necessary at the time.
The spending Obama wants to do is NOT needed (well, not all of it).

And, I CAN pick and choose where I think we SHOULD spend money. Having a philosophy doesn't lock you in to no other possibilities in life/government.

Take away the wars, and what's our spending deficit during the Bush years?

Take away the military buildup, and what was Reagan's spending like?
Because to hear people talk, he cut every program under the sun.

Take away the first gulf war, and what was GHWB's spending?

You can't just ignore the worldwide events and climate and say "you should never spend money" because you are conservative.

[Ugmo]

Well then take away the wars that Bush started and Obama's spending is much lower too. You are not applying the same standard to the Dem that you apply to the Republicans.

You approve of the massive overspending during the Cold War in the 80s? Fine, then I approve of Obama's massive overspending to stimulate the economy and reduce unemployment. Or are you ignoring the major worldwide event that was the 2009 economic crisis?

Again, you're obviously not a fiscal conservative if you decide massive overspending is just fine for things you personally approve of.

Honestly dude, you need a new posting gimmick, as the whole fiscal conservative angle isn't working out so well for you.

[VinnieKulick]

Take away the $400 billion that Bush was running up, and Obama is still spending at a trillion dollar deficit.

And, if you believe the Obama talking heads, we're heading out of the "recession/depression" without all of the stimulus money being spent. But, I am sure he'll still spend it.

Pork is pork, and it's not good when either party does it.

I like how you assume I approve of everything every republican ever did. Thats like saying if you approve of Obama, you approve of all the actions of the democrats, like opposing civil rights, supporting slavery, etc.

[Ugmo]

Take away the $400 billion that Bush was running up, and Obama is still spending at a trillion dollar deficit.

And, if you believe the Obama talking heads, we're heading out of the "recession/depression" without all of the stimulus money being spent. But, I am sure he'll still spend it.

Pork is pork, and it's not good when either party does it.

I like how you assume I approve of everything every republican ever did. Thats like saying if you approve of Obama, you approve of all the actions of the democrats, like opposing civil rights, supporting slavery, etc.

Obama isn't spending this money in a vacuum. He's spending it during the worst global economic crisis since the Great Depression. He's spending it because very intelligent advisors told him that was the best course of action - and guess what, the Chinese and the Europeans also spent massive amounts of money to avert the crisis. You're not being even-handed - you're saying it's just fine to overspend on military crises but not on economic crises. You're picking and choosing, which is why I think you're only a fiscal conservative when it suits you (or in this case, when the Democrat is in office).

I don't know everything you approve or disapprove of, but you sure seem to have endless excuses for Republican overspending and no wilingness at all to consider the circumstances in which Obama's overspending is taking place.

[VinnieKulick]

Obama isn't spending this money in a vacuum. He's spending it during the worst global economic crisis since the Great Depression. He's spending it because very intelligent advisors told him that was the best course of action - and guess what, the Chinese and the Europeans also spent massive amounts of money to avert the crisis.

And, Obama has come out and said the worst is over, that we've leveled out and that things will get better. So why do we still need to spend the rest of the money that's allocated by the stimulus?

You're not being even-handed - you're saying it's just fine to overspend on military crises but not on economic crises. You're picking and choosing, which is why I think you're only a fiscal conservative when it suits you (or in this case, when the Democrat is in office).

I don't know everything you approve or disapprove of, but you sure seem to have endless excuses for Republican overspending and no wilingness at all to consider the circumstances in which Obama's overspending is taking place.

I guess you missed the first five times I said I disapproved of Bush's spending.

[Ugmo]

And, Obama has come out and said the worst is over, that we've leveled out and that things will get better. So why do we still need to spend the rest of the money that's allocated by the stimulus?

I assume because the problem might worsen again if the stimulus money isn't spent. This is from an economic report I'm currently translating for my company:

The fact that the effects of the stimulus programs will expire over the course of the year suggest that economic development will be restrained for the time being. Within the Fed, therefore, there are calls for the expansion and extension of the stimulus programs in view of ongoing problems in the real estate and employment markets.

I don't think we're out of the woods yet.

I guess you missed the first five times I said I disapproved of Bush's spending.

You know, I've been posting at the War Board for a long time, and I do not remember you starting any threads complaining about Bush's spending the way you've done with Obama. Sure, you're half-heartedly claiming right now that you disapproved of his spending, but at the time it didn't bother you enough for you to start thread after thread about it like you've done with Obama. On top of that you were making excuses for him mere posts ago:

"Take away the wars, and what's our spending deficit during the Bush years?"

Take away the wars?? He started them!

[VinnieKulick]

Well, Bush started ONE of those wars on his own, the other in response to 9-11. BTW, let's not forget he did so with wide support from both sides of the aisle in Congress.

I've been saying since about four years ago how irresponsible Bush was. I've mentioned it in threads. Did I start any threads? Not that I remember, but I have said it over the past few years.

But that doesn't take away that THIS president is spending MORE than Bush did by a wide margin.

[Ugmo]

Bush overspent right from day one. The guy was running 400 billion dollar deficits.

We call that "the good ol' days".

Yeah, I'm sure you enjoyed them.