Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by Ugmo »

SmokeyRamone wrote:interesting, I wonder where the money for the subsidies is going to come from
By taxing the wealthy I believe. :lol:

There's some info on the reconciliation at the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sp ... id=topnews

And some misconceptions cleared up by politfact:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... re-reform/

In my opinion, it's not as strong of a bill as it could have been with a public option, but it's an improvement over the status quo. Considering all the opposition to reform by entrenched interests, it's amazing that they're going to get a bill passed at all (looks like they will), and that it's even this strong of a bill.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by bane »

Are there exemtions in there for the guy that gets layed off and can't afford his coverage for a few months while he's job hunting? I can't find any language about it. They ought to be addressing that. Maybe a temporary medicare hookup or something, because fining the guy for a lapse in coverage under those circumstances would be retarded.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by lerxstcat »

bane wrote:Are there exemtions in there for the guy that gets layed off and can't afford his coverage for a few months while he's job hunting? I can't find any language about it. They ought to be addressing that. Maybe a temporary medicare hookup or something, because fining the guy for a lapse in coverage under those circumstances would be retarded.
There is probably not such a provision NOW, but it will surely be addressed very quickly if this passes into law. It's a great example of my view that the plan will need to hit the ground and then be adjusted as it runs into real-world operating conditions.

Saying you want it all to be perfect before it's enacted is the impossible dream. You thought of it because layoffs are common in construction, but most of our politicians are probably not familiar with being laid off.

It'd be nice if it could be perfect when it hit the ground, but since that's not gonna happen, let's get it going and then fix it along the way. Which will probably be a never-ending process, but such is life....
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by bane »

lerxstcat wrote:
bane wrote:Are there exemtions in there for the guy that gets layed off and can't afford his coverage for a few months while he's job hunting? I can't find any language about it. They ought to be addressing that. Maybe a temporary medicare hookup or something, because fining the guy for a lapse in coverage under those circumstances would be retarded.
There is probably not such a provision NOW, but it will surely be addressed very quickly if this passes into law. It's a great example of my view that the plan will need to hit the ground and then be adjusted as it runs into real-world operating conditions.

Saying you want it all to be perfect before it's enacted is the impossible dream. You thought of it because layoffs are common in construction, but most of our politicians are probably not familiar with being laid off.

It'd be nice if it could be perfect when it hit the ground, but since that's not gonna happen, let's get it going and then fix it along the way. Which will probably be a never-ending process, but such is life....
I can't believe they haven't thought of it. Unemployment is what, 10%? If they want to make this thing a little more palatable to the public, some language about that situation would be a good idea IMO.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by thejuggernaut »

bane wrote:
lerxstcat wrote:
bane wrote:Are there exemtions in there for the guy that gets layed off and can't afford his coverage for a few months while he's job hunting? I can't find any language about it. They ought to be addressing that. Maybe a temporary medicare hookup or something, because fining the guy for a lapse in coverage under those circumstances would be retarded.
There is probably not such a provision NOW, but it will surely be addressed very quickly if this passes into law. It's a great example of my view that the plan will need to hit the ground and then be adjusted as it runs into real-world operating conditions.

Saying you want it all to be perfect before it's enacted is the impossible dream. You thought of it because layoffs are common in construction, but most of our politicians are probably not familiar with being laid off.

It'd be nice if it could be perfect when it hit the ground, but since that's not gonna happen, let's get it going and then fix it along the way. Which will probably be a never-ending process, but such is life....
I can't believe they haven't thought of it. Unemployment is what, 10%? If they want to make this thing a little more palatable to the public, some language about that situation would be a good idea IMO.
I am enjoying the whole IRS-as-the-enforcer thing. You know, the agency that belongs to the Treasury Department which is run by a tax cheat.

Your private taxpayer information now will be revealed to the Department of Health and Social Services.

AWESOME !!!

What was it a few years ago the left wing was saying about the Patriot Act and Bush listening in on phone calls ? Were they in favor of the Patriot Act ? I remember some uproar, but I just can't seem to remember what it was about....
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by bane »

Somebody explain to me how they can say we'll be making medicare available to ALL the poor (instead of just the disabled etc) while simultaneously slashing the hell out of the medicare budget in order to finance this whole thing? Is it just me, or is there a litlle "fuzzy math" in there somewhere? I know that they're pledging to clean up fraud and waste, which I applaud, but that seems a bit optimistic to me.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by MasterOfMeatPuppets »

bane wrote:Are there exemtions in there for the guy that gets layed off and can't afford his coverage for a few months while he's job hunting? I can't find any language about it. They ought to be addressing that. Maybe a temporary medicare hookup or something, because fining the guy for a lapse in coverage under those circumstances would be retarded.
3. Everyone will have to have health insurance or pay a fine, a requirement known as the individual mandate. The government intends to cap premiums for people who make below a certain income. For people who buy insurance on the exchanges, a family of four making $88,000 would have a cap of 9.5 percent of their income. Lower incomes would have lower caps. The fine for not having insurance would be a minimum of $695 per person per year, with exemptions for financial hardship and other special cases.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... re-reform/
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by bane »

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote:
bane wrote:Are there exemtions in there for the guy that gets layed off and can't afford his coverage for a few months while he's job hunting? I can't find any language about it. They ought to be addressing that. Maybe a temporary medicare hookup or something, because fining the guy for a lapse in coverage under those circumstances would be retarded.
3. Everyone will have to have health insurance or pay a fine, a requirement known as the individual mandate. The government intends to cap premiums for people who make below a certain income. For people who buy insurance on the exchanges, a family of four making $88,000 would have a cap of 9.5 percent of their income. Lower incomes would have lower caps. The fine for not having insurance would be a minimum of $695 per person per year, with exemptions for financial hardship and other special cases.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... re-reform/
Cool. Thanks for the heads up. I wonder what the definition of "financial hardship is" and what you'd have to do to qualify? Hopefully, it would cover that sort of situation as opposed to being strictly income based. (IE, some guy that usually makes a hundred grand a year loses his gig but doesn't qualify because he made too much last year etc)
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by lerxstcat »

bane wrote:
lerxstcat wrote:
bane wrote:Are there exemtions in there for the guy that gets layed off and can't afford his coverage for a few months while he's job hunting? I can't find any language about it. They ought to be addressing that. Maybe a temporary medicare hookup or something, because fining the guy for a lapse in coverage under those circumstances would be retarded.
There is probably not such a provision NOW, but it will surely be addressed very quickly if this passes into law. It's a great example of my view that the plan will need to hit the ground and then be adjusted as it runs into real-world operating conditions.

Saying you want it all to be perfect before it's enacted is the impossible dream. You thought of it because layoffs are common in construction, but most of our politicians are probably not familiar with being laid off.

It'd be nice if it could be perfect when it hit the ground, but since that's not gonna happen, let's get it going and then fix it along the way. Which will probably be a never-ending process, but such is life....
I can't believe they haven't thought of it. Unemployment is what, 10%? If they want to make this thing a little more palatable to the public, some language about that situation would be a good idea IMO.
It's just an example of how out of touch our lawmakers are with the reality of life and periodic unemployment. Our lawmakers are in effect from the patrician class in this country and don't get it. Thus this glaring omission.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by bane »

Anybody else hear Obama's speech this morning? I'm not crazy about this legislation at all and even I was thinking "You go dude"! He's seriously good at that shit. I'll bet he'd make a hell of a football coach. He'd have players running through walls for him. Fuck being president Barry. Want to coach the Texans?
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by fatbass »

Ugmo wrote:If this thing passes, I really really really want to see the Republicans spend the summer campaigning on repealing it. Holy shit that would be epic. 30 million uninsured people who finally would be able to afford insurance, and the Republicans.....
What do you mean? How do you know what they can afford?
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by chickenona »

YourMomma wrote:
SmokeyRamone wrote:is there a guarantee in the bill that the cost of health insurance is going to go down?
Your answer. From the horses mouth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=oYYbxeW8O6g
He said "Next year's rates." Since you can't seem to stop announcing that changes from this bill wouldn't go into effect until 2014 anyway, I'd think you'd have seen the fail train bearing down on you with this one.

You've been doing this a lot lately. You're so eager to announce failure at every turn on the lefthand side of the aisle that you contradict yourself and negate your own argument constantly. Your smugness as you continue to clown your own damn self again and again is just the partisan icing on the bullshit cake.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by MasterOfMeatPuppets »

YourMomma wrote:Or he doesn't know what he's talking about...
The story of your life.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

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YourMomma wrote:
MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote:
YourMomma wrote:Or he doesn't know what he's talking about...
The story of my life.
Fixed.
This is the best you have, isn't it? You've got no facts, you trip yourself up at every turn and you fail at this, too.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

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You really are shagg/roxxxxxxxy, aren't ya? You can't stop using all his tricks.

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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

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He's definitely Shagg. Frighteningly enough, it seems like roxxxxxxxxtar is a different dude entirely at this point...
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by lerxstcat »

YourMomma wrote:
lerxstcat wrote: It's a great example of my view that the plan will need to hit the ground and then be adjusted as it runs into real-world operating conditions.
You do understand that if the bill is passed on Sunday the coverage doesn't kick in until 2013 with the majority of benefits not starting until the year 2014, right?
All the more reason to pass it ASAP so it can be used and then adjusted as needed. What exactly is your point and how does it contradict my post in any way? It's not like I said it'd go into effect Monday following the vote. But it needs to be passed, implemented, and then adjusted, as opposed to conservatives saying it needs to be perfect at the start - which they know is impossible, thus they use that as a tactic to try to delay it until Judgment Day.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by bane »

lerxstcat wrote:

All the more reason to pass it ASAP so it can be used and then adjusted as needed. What exactly is your point and how does it contradict my post in any way? It's not like I said it'd go into effect Monday following the vote. But it needs to be passed, implemented, and then adjusted, as opposed to conservatives saying it needs to be perfect at the start - which they know is impossible, thus they use that as a tactic to try to delay it until Judgment Day.

I agree with that. They'll never get it right at first. It'll take a while before all the problems arise, but getting it done is the big thing. I've been reading up on this thing over the weekend, and while there is still a whole lot that I'm not crazy about in that bill, I think I can probably live with it. As far as I can tell, it won't affect my life or the lives of most of the people I know much at all, but it will help a lot of people that need it. I'm OK with that.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by SmokeyRamone »

if this passes, I wonder how many other ways the administration will find to use taxation as a form of punishment not revenue, and the IRS as it's enforcers, I seriously doubt it's going to stop with just a health care mandate.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by MasterOfMeatPuppets »

SmokeyRamone wrote:if this passes, I wonder how many other ways the administration will find to use taxation as a form of punishment not revenue, and the IRS as it's enforcers, I seriously doubt it's going to stop with just a health care mandate.
You could ask all the mobsters, pimps, whores, drug dealers and other criminals who've been busted for tax evasion for not declaring illegal income to the government. Ask all the cigarette smokers and the drinkers why their vices are so expensive. This is nothing new.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by SmokeyRamone »

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote:
SmokeyRamone wrote:if this passes, I wonder how many other ways the administration will find to use taxation as a form of punishment not revenue, and the IRS as it's enforcers, I seriously doubt it's going to stop with just a health care mandate.
You could ask all the mobsters, pimps, whores, drug dealers and other criminals who've been busted for tax evasion for not declaring illegal income to the government. Ask all the cigarette smokers and the drinkers why their vices are so expensive. This is nothing new.
yes it is, people who get busted for tax evasion are busted for not paying taxes on income earned (or stolen), taxes are levied in income, goods, services, property, sure, some more than others like alcohol and cigarettes, but there's still a monetary exchange involved, if I buy something, or make money, I pay taxes on it so the government has money to operate, taxation should not be a form of punishment, if people consider their taxes excessive, they have legal ways to cut down on their taxes, don't smoke, don't buy property, or cut down on expenses. The mandate and ensuing fine will be levied on people who don't purchase health insurance, people shouldn't be taxed for things they don't buy, again, the government should not be using taxation as a form of punishment, it's wrong, it's heavy handed, it's unAmerican.

I've asked this before, if people think a health care mandate and ensuing fine are a good thing, how else should the government be attempting to control how we spend our money? What other aspects of our finances should they have control over?
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by cantstopthemusic »

bane wrote:I've been reading up on this thing over the weekend, and while there is still a whole lot that I'm not crazy about in that bill, I think I can probably live with it. As far as I can tell, it won't affect my life or the lives of most of the people I know much at all, but it will help a lot of people that need it. I'm OK with that.
Save this quote, then re-post it in 6 years.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100319/ts_csm/288977

As congressional leaders and the White House push to attract the remaining votes needed to pass a healthcare reform measure this weekend, opponents are poised to take their fight to the courts, and potentially all the way to the US Supreme Court.

The mounting drama on Capitol Hill could extend far beyond the political, economic, and national policy implications of healthcare reform. It could set the stage for a major showdown over the meaning of a key constitutional provision.

The conservative Landmark Legal Foundation has already drafted a nine-page complaint set to be filed in US District Court in Washington within moments of passage of the measure. There will likely be others.

Republican lawmakers have pledged similar efforts to challenge the constitutionality of a legislative maneuver that would allow the House to adopt a Senate version of the bill without casting a specific vote on it. The so-called Slaughter rule, named for House Rules Committee Chair Louise Slaughter (D) of New York, is an attractive alternative for Democratic lawmakers who want to pass some version of healthcare reform but who worry about the potential political consequences.

A close look at 'deem and pass'Legal analysts are divided over whether the so-called “deem and passâ€

Former Appeals Court Judge and Stanford Law Prof. Michael McConnell says it violates the requirement in Article I Section 7 that a bill “pass” both houses.

“The Slaughter solution attempts to allow the House to pass the Senate bill, plus a bill amending it, with a single vote,” Professor McConnell wrote recently in The Wall Street Journal. “The senators would then vote only on the amendatory bill. But this means that no single bill will have passed both houses in the same form.”

Yale Law Prof. Jack Balkin disagrees with McConnell’s precise reading of the requirement. He has written on his popular blog that the House maneuver would satisfy constitutional requirements provided the House accepts the same text as the Senate bill as its own act.

The House has the ability to adopt its own rules, he says, and if the members decide to embrace a Senate bill as passed by the Senate, federal judges – and perhaps even Supreme Court justices – are unlikely to second-guess the internal workings of the legislative process.

“If opponents of health care reform want to find a basis to attack the constitutionality of health care reform, challenging the use of ‘deem and pass’ is a pretty good way to get thrown out of court,” he wrote.

Legal fights possible over bill's substance, tooIn addition to the “deem and pass” rule, healthcare reform opponents have suggested they will challenge the constitutionality of several provisions in the bill. They argue that Congress lacks the power to order Americans to buy government-backed health insurance, and they say backroom deals offering special favors to Louisiana and Nebraska to gain the support of senators from those states raise constitutional questions.

But the more immediate legal fight would likely be over the deem and pass rule.

The Landmark Legal Foundation’s suit tracks McConnell’s position on the issue. “Because the House violated the Constitution by never voting on the Senate bill, the Senate bill cannot be and is not the law of the United States,” the lawsuit says in part. Any signature by President Obama would be a nullity.

“The piece of paper he has stated that he will sign or has signed is nothing more than that: a piece of paper,â€

The suit relies heavily on a 1998 US Supreme Court decision, Clinton v. City of New York, in which the court outlined the legislative process as requiring the House to pass a bill “containing its exact text” with the Senate approving “precisely the same text.”

One key test of the lawsuit, should it be filed, will be whether judges are willing to wade into the legislative and political thicket to address the issue. Or whether they would decide to leave it to Congress – and the voters – to apportion credit or blame for the healthcare reform effort.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

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SmokeyRamone wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100319/ts_csm/288977

As congressional leaders and the White House push to attract the remaining votes needed to pass a healthcare reform measure this weekend, opponents are poised to take their fight to the courts, and potentially all the way to the US Supreme Court.

The mounting drama on Capitol Hill could extend far beyond the political, economic, and national policy implications of healthcare reform. It could set the stage for a major showdown over the meaning of a key constitutional provision.

The conservative Landmark Legal Foundation has already drafted a nine-page complaint set to be filed in US District Court in Washington within moments of passage of the measure. There will likely be others.

Republican lawmakers have pledged similar efforts to challenge the constitutionality of a legislative maneuver that would allow the House to adopt a Senate version of the bill without casting a specific vote on it. The so-called Slaughter rule, named for House Rules Committee Chair Louise Slaughter (D) of New York, is an attractive alternative for Democratic lawmakers who want to pass some version of healthcare reform but who worry about the potential political consequences.

A close look at 'deem and pass'Legal analysts are divided over whether the so-called “deem and passâ€

Former Appeals Court Judge and Stanford Law Prof. Michael McConnell says it violates the requirement in Article I Section 7 that a bill “pass” both houses.

“The Slaughter solution attempts to allow the House to pass the Senate bill, plus a bill amending it, with a single vote,” Professor McConnell wrote recently in The Wall Street Journal. “The senators would then vote only on the amendatory bill. But this means that no single bill will have passed both houses in the same form.”

Yale Law Prof. Jack Balkin disagrees with McConnell’s precise reading of the requirement. He has written on his popular blog that the House maneuver would satisfy constitutional requirements provided the House accepts the same text as the Senate bill as its own act.

The House has the ability to adopt its own rules, he says, and if the members decide to embrace a Senate bill as passed by the Senate, federal judges – and perhaps even Supreme Court justices – are unlikely to second-guess the internal workings of the legislative process.

“If opponents of health care reform want to find a basis to attack the constitutionality of health care reform, challenging the use of ‘deem and pass’ is a pretty good way to get thrown out of court,” he wrote.

Legal fights possible over bill's substance, tooIn addition to the “deem and pass” rule, healthcare reform opponents have suggested they will challenge the constitutionality of several provisions in the bill. They argue that Congress lacks the power to order Americans to buy government-backed health insurance, and they say backroom deals offering special favors to Louisiana and Nebraska to gain the support of senators from those states raise constitutional questions.

But the more immediate legal fight would likely be over the deem and pass rule.

The Landmark Legal Foundation’s suit tracks McConnell’s position on the issue. “Because the House violated the Constitution by never voting on the Senate bill, the Senate bill cannot be and is not the law of the United States,” the lawsuit says in part. Any signature by President Obama would be a nullity.

“The piece of paper he has stated that he will sign or has signed is nothing more than that: a piece of paper,â€

The suit relies heavily on a 1998 US Supreme Court decision, Clinton v. City of New York, in which the court outlined the legislative process as requiring the House to pass a bill “containing its exact text” with the Senate approving “precisely the same text.”

One key test of the lawsuit, should it be filed, will be whether judges are willing to wade into the legislative and political thicket to address the issue. Or whether they would decide to leave it to Congress – and the voters – to apportion credit or blame for the healthcare reform effort.
We've already been here, done that. It is astounding the levels of hypocrisy that have been reached by Republicans and other conservatives.
http://wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?topic ... _id=180829
When Republicans took power in 1995, they soon lost their aversion to self-executing rules and proceeded to set new records under Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.). There were 38 and 52 self-executing rules in the 104th and 105th Congresses (1995-1998), making up 25 percent and 35 percent of all rules, respectively. Under Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) there were 40, 42 and 30 self-executing rules in the 106th, 107th and 108th Congresses (22 percent, 37 percent and 22 percent, respectively). Thus far in the 109th Congress, self-executing rules make up about 16 percent of all rules.
In fact, it's how the Republicans gutted the lobbying and ethics bill.
On April 26, the Rules Committee served up the mother of all self-executing rules for the lobby/ethics reform bill. The committee hit the trifecta with not one, not two, but three self-executing provisions in the same special rule.
viewtopic.php?p=4619040#p4619040
@YourMomma: ACORN? Why not just repost the Obama's 'Kenyan' birth certificate since you're recycling old, played-out shit now.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by bane »

cantstopthemusic wrote:
bane wrote:I've been reading up on this thing over the weekend, and while there is still a whole lot that I'm not crazy about in that bill, I think I can probably live with it. As far as I can tell, it won't affect my life or the lives of most of the people I know much at all, but it will help a lot of people that need it. I'm OK with that.
Save this quote, then re-post it in 6 years.
We'll see. They're gonna pass it anyway. It's easier to swallow this than the radical changes they were trying to do in the house bill.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by lerxstcat »

YourMomma wrote:
lerxstcat wrote:
All the more reason to pass it ASAP so it can be used and then adjusted as needed. What exactly is your point and how does it contradict my post in any way?
It is strange that democrats are screaming for the bill to pass without delay!!! Meanwhile the majority of the benefits/spending of the bill don't even begin until at least the year 2013/2014. But we have to get it done before the easter break!!! I wonder why...

Oh, and the taxes/costs begin almost immediately. Don't tell anyone though.
Without delay? It's been delayed since the first Clinton Administration! And of course the taxes and costs begin before the benefits do in order to gear up to pay for it. Aren't you GOP folks supposed to APPLAUD such fiscal responsibility? Or is that only when YOUR party does it?
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by JakeYonkel »

I would support this if it seemed to actually help people that currently have overpriced insurance. My wife's employer-sponsored insurance has us paying nearly $500 per month for a family of 3. And because of pre-existing conditions, I CAN'T get my own insurance.

I guess at least I'll be able to spin off on my own if this passes.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by MasterOfMeatPuppets »

lerxstcat wrote:
YourMomma wrote:
lerxstcat wrote:
All the more reason to pass it ASAP so it can be used and then adjusted as needed. What exactly is your point and how does it contradict my post in any way?
It is strange that democrats are screaming for the bill to pass without delay!!! Meanwhile the majority of the benefits/spending of the bill don't even begin until at least the year 2013/2014. But we have to get it done before the easter break!!! I wonder why...

Oh, and the taxes/costs begin almost immediately. Don't tell anyone though.
Without delay? It's been delayed since the first Clinton Administration! And of course the taxes and costs begin before the benefits do in order to gear up to pay for it. Aren't you GOP folks supposed to APPLAUD such fiscal responsibility? Or is that only when YOUR party does it?
Is there anyone here who remembers when the GOP was actually the party of fiscal responsibility, as opposed to the party that just talks big and spends bigger.
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by Nevermind »

MasterOfMeatPuppets wrote: Is there anyone here who remembers when the GOP was actually the party of fiscal responsibility, as opposed to the party that just talks big and spends bigger.
It's good to see you admit that the democrat party has never been the party of fiscal responsibilty.
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bane
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Re: Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

Post by bane »

JakeYonkel wrote:
I guess at least I'll be able to spin off on my own if this passes.

There's that. It doesn't seem to do much to curb current pricing (yeah, they say it'll stop or at least slow it's rising, but I'll believe it when I see it), but at least the pre existing bullshit will be over with.
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