Dems lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority

[Ugmo]

Uh, no dude. Politfact trumps any biased source you can come up with.

I don't really get what you're doing. Do you realize your link is bullshit and are trying to fool me, or are you not understanding this thing yourself?

Either way, the CBO analysis says this bill will reduce the deficit, this decade and in the decade thereafter.

[tin00can]

That's an opinion piece by some conservative dude.

Translation: You dismiss it out-of-hand, due to the source, rather than read it, regardless.

What a shock.

Didn't you just dismiss ugmo's opinion because he doesn't live here?

Jesus christ, how many times more times are you going to accuse somebody of doing something stupid and then turn around and do something similarly stupid?

[cantstopthemusic]

The CBO clearly states

Four words I'd never put any faith in, whatsoever, ever.

You feel free to consider them all-knowing in their "projections." That's all it is. Not FACT.

[KneelandBobDylan]

That's an opinion piece by some conservative dude.

Translation: You dismiss it out-of-hand, due to the source, rather than read it, regardless.

What a shock.

You know what else is shocking? Me agreeing with David Frum, per this article.


It's quite interesting:

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

That's an opinion piece by some conservative dude.

Translation: You dismiss it out-of-hand, due to the source, rather than read it, regardless.

What a shock.

You know what else is shocking? Me agreeing with David Frum, per this article.


It's quite interesting:

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

He's right. They could have been in a win-win situation but they vowed to settle for nothing less than win-lose. They got their wish.

It will be interesting to see what those clowns make of this conservative's view.

[bane]

Anyone up for a wager? I will bet the Dems don't lose their majority in either house.

It's a bit early for real predictions, but they'll definitely lose seats, and I'd be willing to bet they'll lose at least one majority. There will be a whole lot of stink over this bill. For good or bad, it's going to get some people bounced and some new blood elected. The republicans don't have to worry about a repeal either dude. It'll be in the courts in 10 minutes. Their political bases are covered with that one. It's all a dog and pony show anyway as you well know, and I'm on the fence for what it will really mean for the country in the long run, but in the short term, it's about to get ugly as fuck.

[Ugmo]

It's a bit early for real predictions, but they'll definitely lose seats, and I'd be willing to bet they'll lose at least one majority.

Be kind of a fun wager though. Like if I lose (and the Republicans win at least one house), I'd have to sport John Boehner's ghastly orange face in my sig and proclaim my eternal allegiance to him or something.

The Dems have really big majorities though. They have an 18-seat majority in the Senate with, what, 20 seats up for grabs? And they're going to lose 78 seats in the House? That's a lot of fuckin' seats! I just don't really see it. The only people who are REALLY angry about this health care thing are the people who always vote for the Republicans anyway. Maybe they will be more fired up than their liberal counterparts and get out the vote better, but 78 seats worth of votes doesn't sound all that realistic to me.

[Crazy Levi]

It's a bit early for real predictions, but they'll definitely lose seats, and I'd be willing to bet they'll lose at least one majority.

Be kind of a fun wager though. Like if I lose (and the Republicans win at least one house), I'd have to sport John Boehner's ghastly orange face in my sig and proclaim my eternal allegiance to him or something.

The Dems have really big majorities though. They have an 18-seat majority in the Senate with, what, 20 seats up for grabs? And they're going to lose 78 seats in the House? That's a lot of fuckin' seats! I just don't really see it. The only people who are REALLY angry about this health care thing are the people who always vote for the Republicans anyway. Maybe they will be more fired up than their liberal counterparts and get out the vote better, but 78 seats worth of votes doesn't sound all that realistic to me.

Of course it isn't.

And until the elections, all people are going to be hearing about is the "historic" accomplishment of Obama and the Democratic Congress. I've heard the word "historic" 100 times tonight.

I don't think the right realizes how huge this is. This a one-in a presidency, once in a lifetime occurance.

[KneelandBobDylan]

It's a bit early for real predictions, but they'll definitely lose seats, and I'd be willing to bet they'll lose at least one majority.

Be kind of a fun wager though. Like if I lose (and the Republicans win at least one house), I'd have to sport John Boehner's ghastly orange face in my sig and proclaim my eternal allegiance to him or something.

The Dems have really big majorities though. They have an 18-seat majority in the Senate with, what, 20 seats up for grabs? And they're going to lose 78 seats in the House? That's a lot of fuckin' seats! I just don't really see it. The only people who are REALLY angry about this health care thing are the people who always vote for the Republicans anyway. Maybe they will be more fired up than their liberal counterparts and get out the vote better, but 78 seats worth of votes doesn't sound all that realistic to me.

Of course it isn't.

And until the elections, all people are going to be hearing about is the "historic" accomplishment of Obama and the Democratic Congress. I've heard the word "historic" 100 times tonight.

I don't think the right realizes how huge this is. This a one-in a presidency, once in a lifetime occurance.

Oh, they understand, which is why they did everything but throw a virgin into a volcano to stop it.

[Crazy Levi]

It seems that the Dems DON'T lack votes for Health Care passage with simple majority.

Imagine that.

[KneelandBobDylan]

Here are nine benefits which come online within six months of the President's signature on the health care bill:

1.Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday

2.Children under age 19 may not be excluded for pre-existing conditions

3.No more lifetime or annual caps on coverage

4.Free preventative care for all

5.Adults with pre-existing conditions may buy into a national high-risk pool until the exchanges come online. While these will not be cheap, they’re still better than total exclusion and get some benefit from a wider pool of insureds.

6.Small businesses will be entitled to a tax credit for 2009 and 2010, which could be as much as 50% of what they pay for employees’ health insurance.

7.The “donut hole” closes for Medicare patients, making prescription medications more affordable for seniors.

8.Requirement that all insurers must post their balance sheets on the Internet and fully disclose administrative costs, executive compensation packages, and benefit payments.

9.Authorizes early funding of community health centers in all 50 states (Bernie Sanders’ amendment). Community health centers provide primary, dental and vision services to people in the community, based on a sliding scale

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Anyone up for a wager? I will bet the Dems don't lose their majority in either house.

It's a bit early for real predictions, but they'll definitely lose seats, and I'd be willing to bet they'll lose at least one majority. There will be a whole lot of stink over this bill. For good or bad, it's going to get some people bounced and some new blood elected. The republicans don't have to worry about a repeal either dude. It'll be in the courts in 10 minutes. Their political bases are covered with that one. It's all a dog and pony show anyway as you well know, and I'm on the fence for what it will really mean for the country in the long run, but in the short term, it's about to get ugly as fuck.

I don't see a lot of them getting kicked to the curb, either. As far as the courts, the bill won't get kicked to the curb either. The House (and Senate) are Constitutionally allowed to set their own rules and it's been OK to both parties for 70+ years. Courts are big on precedent.

[thejuggernaut]

Here are nine benefits which come online within six months of the President's signature on the health care bill:

1.Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday

LOL

What a benefit !!!!

[JakeYonkel]

Here are nine benefits which come online within six months of the President's signature on the health care bill:

1.Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday

LOL

What a benefit !!!!

No kidding. The only benefit here really is getting rid of pre-existing conditions clauses. Which could have probably been achieved without spending a trillion dollars or dividing the country up.

[Crazy Levi]

Here are nine benefits which come online within six months of the President's signature on the health care bill:

1.Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday

LOL

What a benefit !!!!

You are Candian, so I wouldn't expect you to understand.

But this is actually a huge benefit. It will benefit millions of Americans.

[thejuggernaut]

Here are nine benefits which come online within six months of the President's signature on the health care bill:

1.Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday

LOL

What a benefit !!!!

You are Candian, so I wouldn't expect you to understand.

But this is actually a huge benefit. It will benefit millions of Americans.

Splendid !!

[EvilMadman]

Anyone up for a wager? I will bet the Dems don't lose their majority in either house.

The question is, did the Democrats foul everything up so bad that they'll get creamed by Republicans in the 2010 Senate and/or the 2012 elections?

Gee, I guess they will find out in the next 8 months.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 04860.html

Either poison -- the cuts [Medicare] or the deficit -- will be enough to eradicate an entire generation of House and Senate Democrats.

And these cuts will take place against a backdrop of continuing increases in health insurance premiums, no expansion of coverage (it doesn't kick in until 2013) and no tangible benefit from the Obama bill.

This is the prospect the House and Senate Democrats who vote for Obamacare will face in the fall of 2010. This is the record they will have to defend.

Or, they could save their political lives and vote no.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02904.html

Unless the Democrats fundamentally change their approach, they will produce not just a march of folly but also run the risk of unmitigated disaster in November.

Wow! At the moment, it really seems like the Democrats are heading for a calamity.

[Ugmo]

Really, an opinion piece by Dick Morris? I thought when I saw the realclearpolitics tag that you'd have some kind of hard poll numbers, but no, you give us an opinion piece by a guy who has been shilling for the Republicans ever since he left the Clinton administration in disgrace.

So are you up for the wager? You think there's going to be a 78-seat swing in the House and an 18-seat swing in the Senate?

[lerxstcat]

Here are nine benefits which come online within six months of the President's signature on the health care bill:

1.Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday

LOL

What a benefit !!!!

You are Candian, so I wouldn't expect you to understand.

But this is actually a huge benefit. It will benefit millions of Americans.

Specifically it will be a huge help to parents of children who are pursuing postgraduate degrees in order to boost their earnings potential and their productivity to society after graduation.

The scenario where your kid is still in college, grad student, off your insurance and no insurance of his/her own, goes to the ER for an ilness of some kind. Huge bills generated with on intervening insurance. STILL putting a kid through med school or law school. That's a nightmare scenario for a couple who have maybe raised a couple of kids to adulthood and were hoping they might get to retire someday in the foreseeable future.

If this prevents that by extending the insurable age for dependent kids to be in line with today's need to see them through a Master's or even a doctorate, it will benefit everybody except the already grossly bloated insurance industry.

[EvilMadman]

Really, an opinion piece by Dick Morris? I thought when I saw the realclearpolitics tag that you'd have some kind of hard poll numbers, but no, you give us an opinion piece by a guy who has been shilling for the Republicans ever since he left the Clinton administration in disgrace.

So are you up for the wager? You think there's going to be a 78-seat swing in the House and an 18-seat swing in the Senate?

Yes, maybe he has "shilled" for the Republicans on more than one occasion, but you must admit Dick Morris is still a pretty experienced political commentator/analyst.

Okay, now I'm not sure that there will be a swing THAT large, but I absolutely expect the Dems to take a nice drubbing in the upcoming elections. The new Health Care monstrosity does nothing to help with jobs or economic growth or to balance the budget, and the Democrats should expect a sizable backlash for ramming this thing through.

Here...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... nal_ballot

It's all I could find that was from a reliable/unbiased source. But at such an early time it is pure speculation, of course.

Hey, and what did you think of that Pat Caddell and Douglas Schoen piece in the Washingtonpost.com article?

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

This thread is officially ironic.

[Ugmo]

Yes, maybe he has "shilled" for the Republicans on more than one occasion, but you must admit Dick Morris is still a pretty experienced political commentator/analyst.

I admit Karl Rove is an experienced political commentator, but I still don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth!

Okay, now I'm not sure that there will be a swing THAT large, but I absolutely expect the Dems to take a nice drubbing in the upcoming elections. The new Health Care monstrosity does nothing to help with jobs or economic growth or to balance the budget, and the Democrats should expect a sizable backlash for ramming this thing through.

Sure it does. The CBO projects that it will lower the deficit by over a hundred billion dollars in the coming years and a trillion dollars in the decade after that. Why is the kill the bill crowd completely ignoring that?

Hey, and what did you think of that Pat Caddell and Douglas Schoen piece in the Washingtonpost.com article?

It was refuted by everyone under the sun. Those two clowns are the guys who suggested McCain would win the election if he chose Joe Lieberman as his running mate.

Dude, I stand by this and am willing to bet on it: the Democrats will lose seats in November like the majority party always does in mid-terms. But it won't be a drubbing. No way in hell do the Democrats lose either house.

[Crazy Levi]

This thread is officially ironic.

Dude! The Dems totally lack the votes.

[EvilMadman]

Yes, maybe he has "shilled" for the Republicans on more than one occasion, but you must admit Dick Morris is still a pretty experienced political commentator/analyst.

I admit Karl Rove is an experienced political commentator, but I still don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth!

Okay, now I'm not sure that there will be a swing THAT large, but I absolutely expect the Dems to take a nice drubbing in the upcoming elections. The new Health Care monstrosity does nothing to help with jobs or economic growth or to balance the budget, and the Democrats should expect a sizable backlash for ramming this thing through.

Sure it does. The CBO projects that it will lower the deficit by over a hundred billion dollars in the coming years and a trillion dollars in the decade after that. Why is the kill the bill crowd completely ignoring that?

Hey, and what did you think of that Pat Caddell and Douglas Schoen piece in the Washingtonpost.com article?

It was refuted by everyone under the sun. Those two clowns are the guys who suggested McCain would win the election if he chose Joe Lieberman as his running mate.

Dude, I stand by this and am willing to bet on it: the Democrats will lose seats in November like the majority party always does in mid-terms. But it won't be a drubbing. No way in hell do the Democrats lose either house.

I like to think that Dick Morris has just a tad more credibility than Karl Rove. I really couldn't imagine Rove ever working for any Liberal/Democrat candidate.

The "kill the bill crowd" aren't ignoring it, so much as they just don't believe the figures form the CBO. And you can't really blame them for their skepticism, after claiming that the bank bailouts created millions of brand new jobs.

Hey, I think Pat Caddell has had a decent prediction track record.

"Al Gore lacks character." -December 2000

"Going after Lieberman will destroy the party." -August 2006

Fortunately for the Dems, Lieberman won, but the caucus wasn't as strong as it would have been if they hadn't tried to reject him.

"The Dems can't win Congress by criticizing Iraq." -Sept. 2006

The Democrats won in 2006 due to revulsion at GOP corruption (Foley etc.). Iraq was minor issue (and should be glad the public doesn't dwell on such beauties as Harry Reid's claim that the war in Iraq was lost.

Oh, and didn't Al Bore almost win the 2000 presidential election with Joe Lieberman on his ticket? Not saying that McCain would've won with him.

I really hate to burst your bubble dude, but the Democrats are probably going to lose at least control of Congress. People are pissed. And if you think they're mad now, just wait until the middle class gets the tax bill for the Democrats brand new shiny horrible toy.

[EvilMadman]

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

If the GOP got it's way on health care:

[Nevermind]

Well, the democrats got their way.

[bane]

Jesus dude. What the fuck is wrong with you?

[KneelandBobDylan]

Jesus dude. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Zakk!

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

Jesus dude. What the fuck is wrong with you?

He's a Republican.