8% of US babies are from illegal immigrants survey says

[bane]

If these numbers are accurate that puts an exclamation point on the need to get illegals paying taxes and stop the flow of new ones.

http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/arch ... 0_b_1.html

Report: 340,000 babies born to illegal immigrants in '08
An estimated 340,000 of the 4.3 million babies born in the United States in 2008 were the offspring of illegal immigrants, according to a new report.

An analysis by the Pew Hispanic Center, based on U.S. Census Bureau data, show that illegal immigrants comprise slightly more than 4 percent of the adult population of the U.S., but because they are relatively young and have high birthrates, their children make up a much larger share of both the newborn population (8 percent) and the child population (7 percent of those under age 18) in this country.

Pew estimates that nearly four-in-five (79 percent) of the 5.1 million children (younger than age 18) of illegal immigrants were born in this country and therefore are U.S. citizens. In total, 4 million U.S.-born children of unauthorized immigrant parents resided in this country in 2009, alongside 1.1 million foreign-born children of unauthorized immigrant parents.

The Pew researchers noted they were not addressing the merits of the birthright citizenship debate, which has becoming an increasingly hot issue in recent weeks. A nationwide survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press in June found that, by 56 percent to 41 percent, the public opposes changing the 14th Amendment, which grants an automatic right to citizenship to anyone born in the U.S.

The Atlantic Wire has an interesting post today on how ending birthright citizenship would change immigration. A Washington Post columnist thinks Republicans are tackling the issue out of fear of Latino voting power. But some supporters of a review of the 14th Amendment say something has to be done about "birth tourism," when non-citizens come to the U.S. just to have babies.

Here's a excerpt of a report from Anderson Cooper's blog:

How common is "birth tourism?" Apparently, quite common. In the year Hector was born in Fort Worth, Texas, the state reported at least 60,000 births to undocumented mothers. And amazingly, in the public hospital where Hector was born, officials tell us they estimate 70 percent of their births are to undocumented mothers. Not all those mothers come to the U.S. specifically to have their children; but all the children have something in common. They are all U.S. citizens.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

If these numbers are accurate that puts an exclamation point on the need to get illegals paying taxes ...

They already do pay taxes, and have been for a long time.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24054024/
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/busin ... ation.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/ ... 9153.shtml

[bane]

I'd love to see the real numbers on that. I call bullshit. Most illegals work in some kind of contract labor capacity. There is no withholding and they have no valid social security number so the IRS has no way of tracking it anyway. They pay in via sales and property tax, yeah, but you're high if you think anything approaching a majority of illegals pay ANY income tax.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

I'd love to see the real numbers on that. I call bullshit. Most illegals work in some kind of contract labor capacity. There is no withholding and they have no valid social security number so the IRS has no way of tracking it anyway. They pay in via sales and property tax, yeah, but you're high if you think anything approaching a majority of illegals pay ANY income tax.

There were plenty of facts cited in those articles. You choose to disregard them because they do not fit your preconceptions. I would like to see some numbers from you. I may be high, but I'm not choking down Republican immigration flavored Kool-Aid.

I would be more concerned with the fake document industry and millions living under assumed identities. Maybe even the thousands of employers apparently unable to detect any of these fake papers. That's how they're getting jobs in factories and slaughterhouses. That and IRS issued ITINs.

[Nevermind]

I'd love to see the real numbers on that. I call bullshit. Most illegals work in some kind of contract labor capacity. There is no withholding and they have no valid social security number so the IRS has no way of tracking it anyway. They pay in via sales and property tax, yeah, but you're high if you think anything approaching a majority of illegals pay ANY income tax.

There were plenty of facts cited in those articles. You choose to disregard them because they do not fit your preconceptions. I would like to see some numbers from you. I may be high, but I'm not choking down Republican immigration flavored Kool-Aid.

You're the one who is going to Msnbc and the NY Times for your "facts".

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

You're the one who is going to Msnbc and the NY Times for your "facts".

I would ask if this is the best you can do but we both know that answer.

[bane]

I'd love to see the real numbers on that. I call bullshit. Most illegals work in some kind of contract labor capacity. There is no withholding and they have no valid social security number so the IRS has no way of tracking it anyway. They pay in via sales and property tax, yeah, but you're high if you think anything approaching a majority of illegals pay ANY income tax.

There were plenty of facts cited in those articles. You choose to disregard them because they do not fit your preconceptions. I would like to see some numbers from you. I may be high, but I'm not choking down Republican immigration flavored Kool-Aid.

I would be more concerned with the fake document industry and millions living under assumed identities. Maybe even the thousands of employers apparently unable to detect any of these fake papers. That's how they're getting jobs in factories and slaughterhouses. That and IRS issued ITINs.

If I was spouting republican propaganda I'd be looking to deport them, not get them to pay income tax. If anything I'm making a case for Obama's plan. As to fake docs, yep, they're good for a short period of time. Employers find out out pretty quickly when an employee's social security number isn't valid. The IRS loves to let them know about that. It happens in my industry all the time. These guys might get a job with fake docs, but they don't keep it very long with an employer that does withholding. That's why so many of them work contract labor. Most employers know they're hiring an illegal. They just want enough documentation to make a case that they didn't know it when it catches up to them.

[Crazy Levi]

If I was spouting republican propaganda I'd be looking to deport them, not get them to pay income tax. .

That's the funny thing about this issue - Republicans don't WANT to deport these people.

Everybody is pointing fingers at Obama, but the truth is this is a much more difficult issue for Republicans than Democrats.

The money behind the GOP - big business - loves illegals. A huge part of the US economy is built upon undocumented workers. However the bigots, retards, racists etc. who make up the GOP's base HATE dirty Mexicans.

So Republican electeds are kind of fucked.

[bane]

If I was spouting republican propaganda I'd be looking to deport them, not get them to pay income tax. .

That's the funny thing about this issue - Republicans don't WANT to deport these people.

Everybody is pointing fingers at Obama, but the truth is this is a much more difficult issue for Republicans than Democrats.

The money behind the GOP - big business - loves illegals. A huge part of the US economy is built upon undocumented workers. However the bigots, retards, racists etc. who make up the GOP's base HATE dirty Mexicans.

So Republican electeds are kind of fucked.

That's a good point and you'll get no argument from me on the negative economic impact of the current rightie mantra on immigration. The right has allowed radicals to affect their platform so much that most of what they once stood for has been thrown out the door. I think I've been pretty clear on my feelings on it in the past here (or maybe not. Apparently MOMP thinks I'm standing on the "them dirty meskins took our jobs" soapbox ). I haven't seen anybody on the right with the right answer to the illegals problem lately. Bush, and ironically, McCain had the right idea once upon a time, but McCain has done a 180 in favor of catering to the short sighted whack job contingent. Believe it or not, I think Obama is on the right track with his take on the issue. It's unpopular, but it makes the most sense from an economic point of view IMO.

[lerxstcat]

I'd love to see the real numbers on that. I call bullshit. Most illegals work in some kind of contract labor capacity. There is no withholding and they have no valid social security number so the IRS has no way of tracking it anyway. They pay in via sales and property tax, yeah, but you're high if you think anything approaching a majority of illegals pay ANY income tax.

There were plenty of facts cited in those articles. You choose to disregard them because they do not fit your preconceptions. I would like to see some numbers from you. I may be high, but I'm not choking down Republican immigration flavored Kool-Aid.

I would be more concerned with the fake document industry and millions living under assumed identities. Maybe even the thousands of employers apparently unable to detect any of these fake papers. That's how they're getting jobs in factories and slaughterhouses. That and IRS issued ITINs.

If I was spouting republican propaganda I'd be looking to deport them, not get them to pay income tax. If anything I'm making a case for Obama's plan. As to fake docs, yep, they're good for a short period of time. Employers find out out pretty quickly when an employee's social security number isn't valid. The IRS loves to let them know about that. It happens in my industry all the time. These guys might get a job with fake docs, but they don't keep it very long with an employer that does withholding. That's why so many of them work contract labor. Most employers know they're hiring an illegal. They just want enough documentation to make a case that they didn't know it when it catches up to them.

It depends on the source of the docs as to how good they are and how long they'd last. For a long time the ones in L.A. were getting birth certificates from infants who had died. You apply for a SS card with the birth cert and you've got a VALID Social Security card. Even with fake docs the Social Security is still withheld and paid into the system.

You're absolutely right about contract and casual labor though, but they still propel the economy, as you have said yourself, through rent, groceries and all the other things that everybody consumes.

[vlad]

I'd love to see the real numbers on that. I call bullshit. Most illegals work in some kind of contract labor capacity. There is no withholding and they have no valid social security number so the IRS has no way of tracking it anyway. They pay in via sales and property tax, yeah, but you're high if you think anything approaching a majority of illegals pay ANY income tax.

Perhaps where you live, but every illegal I know works as a W-4 employee, false social or not. The IRS doesn't (or didn't when Iworked in a position that saw how hiring worked). Every so often the Social Security Admin would send a letter with a long lis of bogus SS numbers and ask the company to check.

But nothing beyond that happened. There really wasn't a legal way to "check" socials. When filling out an I-9 if the hiree presented what appeared to be legitimate papers, then that legally was all the employer needed to see.

Seriously bane, 'round these parts, all the illegals work regular jobs. So, they are paying FICA taxes certainly. And while one would sometimes see a young Mexican kid claiming 5 dependents, there is no escaping the SS/Med taxes. And some certainly did pay income taxes. And state taxes, too.

I liked most of the illegal folks the company hired, but it was one of the reasons I quit. Not that I disapproved of them working, the American kids who used to do the job don't seem that interested anymore. But the stress of the "wink, wink, nod, nod" structure (from the Feds, yes the Feds, on down got to me.

[bane]

I'd love to see the real numbers on that. I call bullshit. Most illegals work in some kind of contract labor capacity. There is no withholding and they have no valid social security number so the IRS has no way of tracking it anyway. They pay in via sales and property tax, yeah, but you're high if you think anything approaching a majority of illegals pay ANY income tax.

Perhaps where you live, but every illegal I know works as a W-4 employee, false social or not. The IRS doesn't (or didn't when Iworked in a position that saw how hiring worked). Every so often the Social Security Admin would send a letter with a long lis of bogus SS numbers and ask the company to check.

But nothing beyond that happened. There really wasn't a legal way to "check" socials. When filling out an I-9 if the hiree presented what appeared to be legitimate papers, then that legally was all the employer needed to see.

Seriously bane, 'round these parts, all the illegals work regular jobs. So, they are paying FICA taxes certainly. And while one would sometimes see a young Mexican kid claiming 5 dependents, there is no escaping the SS/Med taxes. And some certainly did pay income taxes. And state taxes, too.

I liked most of the illegal folks the company hired, but it was one of the reasons I quit. Not that I disapproved of them working, the American kids who used to do the job don't seem that interested anymore. But the stress of the "wink, wink, nod, nod" structure (from the Feds, yes the Feds, on down got to me.

I work in the construction industry, so it's a different world I guess but the vast majority of those guys work under the table. Usually, they get payed in cash. I've hired guys with what turned out to be fake docs myself and received a letter from the IRS stating that the social they provided wasn't valid. It happened fast too, within a couple of months of turning in my 1099's.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

I work in the construction industry, so it's a different world I guess but the vast majority of those guys work under the table. Usually, they get payed in cash. I've hired guys with what turned out to be fake docs myself and received a letter from the IRS stating that the social they provided wasn't valid. It happened fast too, within a couple of months of turning in my 1099's.

That explains a lot. There's much more contract and 'under the table' work in general than in other sectors, except maybe farming.

[bane]

I work in the construction industry, so it's a different world I guess but the vast majority of those guys work under the table. Usually, they get payed in cash. I've hired guys with what turned out to be fake docs myself and received a letter from the IRS stating that the social they provided wasn't valid. It happened fast too, within a couple of months of turning in my 1099's.

That explains a lot. There's much more contract and 'under the table' work in general than in other sectors, except maybe farming.

Well, yeah, but when you think of illegals, which two industries to you picture them working in the most? Maybe it's just me, but I think of construction and agriculture. I realize that I may be projecting what I see in my own little corner of the world, but in my experience, in the part of the country I live in, that's the case more often than not.

[lerxstcat]

I work in the construction industry, so it's a different world I guess but the vast majority of those guys work under the table. Usually, they get payed in cash. I've hired guys with what turned out to be fake docs myself and received a letter from the IRS stating that the social they provided wasn't valid. It happened fast too, within a couple of months of turning in my 1099's.

That explains a lot. There's much more contract and 'under the table' work in general than in other sectors, except maybe farming.

Well, yeah, but when you think of illegals, which two industries to you picture them working in the most? Maybe it's just me, but I think of construction and agriculture. I realize that I may be projecting what I see in my own little corner of the world, but in my experience, in the part of the country I live in, that's the case more often than not.

That is true. But last year we had a shitload of the busted at Howard Industries here in Laurel, MS, working as assemblers in a heating controls factory. Now that is an area where citizens would love those jobs and the Hispanics WERe simply working for cheaper wages. And the company had to close down ops for awhile because so many were taken off by Immigration that the factory couldn't keep going.

I am thinking that someone in personnel had a pipeline to fake documents, although that has not been publicly alleged. And Laurel is not on the Coast, where you'd expect construction workers to have gotten those jobs after coming to the state to work in Katrina cleanup. It's about 100 miles north of the Coast which puts it in a different region of the state.

That kind of thing I am against, because those truly ARE jobs that Americans will do, and there were over 500 Hispanics busted in a part of the state that has over 10% unemplyment. So I have to admit the exception to my own argument. But still, in this area, it's mostly construction and agriculture... and Mexican or Cuban restaurants.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

I work in the construction industry, so it's a different world I guess but the vast majority of those guys work under the table. Usually, they get payed in cash. I've hired guys with what turned out to be fake docs myself and received a letter from the IRS stating that the social they provided wasn't valid. It happened fast too, within a couple of months of turning in my 1099's.

That explains a lot. There's much more contract and 'under the table' work in general than in other sectors, except maybe farming.

Well, yeah, but when you think of illegals, which two industries to you picture them working in the most? Maybe it's just me, but I think of construction and agriculture. I realize that I may be projecting what I see in my own little corner of the world, but in my experience, in the part of the country I live in, that's the case more often than not.

I live in the Midwest. I see most of them in the industrial sector, such as factories and meatpacking plants. The IRS and SSA don't care about immigration as long as people are paying in, the ICE can't keep up and the managers pretend to be doing their best to follow the law while taking advantage of illegals and the law.