How long before we send our troops to Mexico?

[bane]

With the out of control cartel violence starting to spill over to our side, how likely do you think it is that we'll decide to do something about it militarily? We've done it before. We had troops chasing Pancho Villa in 190whatevetitwas. I see it as inevitable. Thoughts?

[lerxstcat]

I can't see Obama doing that unless the Mexican government asked us to. I don't think he's stopping Arizona from addressing the problem just to do it himself. He's too concerned about the world disapproving of a unilateral action.

[vlad]

Unless Mexico invites us in...it would be a very, very bad idea.

The world is a very different place than when we entered another country in pursuit of Villa.

As we have developed this habit of unilaterally invading countries over the decades....it won't be seen in isolation by the rest of the world. Mexico is not Grenada or Panama, and we'd not likely "gat away" with it this time..

So, it may happen, but it would be a very, very bad idea. The reasons the cartels are so successful is that there is obviously an American market for their "product". To my mind, rather than going around invading our neighbours, perhaps we need an honest internal discussion about why drugs are so profitable and how keeping them illegal is such a splendid idea...

The lessons of Prohibition are still being ignored.

[bane]

I think you both make valid points, but as it continues to escalate down there, I don't think it's going to matter. The Zetas are going to become a much bigger threat than the Taliban ever were and at some point we're going to be forced to act. The prohibition argument is completely valid, but I don't think we'll see the legalization of cocaine in any of our lifetimes.

[vlad]

I see what you are saying, but the Colombia thing wasn't that successful. Just because Mexico is right next door, that doesn't mean it would work any better.

What a depressing development.

[David_Lee_Halen]

It's not gonna happen without Mexico's blessing and approval. The US Poncho Villa expedition into Mexico happened after Poncho Villa and his men attacked and burned up the town of Columbus, New Mexico which was largely inhabited by the US Army's 13th Cavalry. The cartels haven't really brought the war over to this side of the fence in that same fashion.

[lerxstcat]

If we went in unilaterally we'd risk a insurgency that'd make the Iraqi and Taliban insurgencies look mild. The people would probably side with the cartels against our troops; they have pretty good reason to hat us considering we picked the fight we call the Mexican War so we could take the best half of their country, not to mention Texas itself whose independence they never recognized.

So we'd have the people of Mexico and the UN on our ases. REALLY bad idea. We don't need suicide bombers in Phoenix, L.A. and El Paso.

[vlad]

I suppose in an alternate universe, Mexico could send troops to the US to go after the market that supplies the cash that is tearing apart a chunk of their country.

It's American money (for the most part) that makes these cartels so wealthy and dangerous.

[lerxstcat]

I suppose in an alternate universe, Mexico could send troops to the US to go after the market that supplies the cash that is tearing apart a chunk of their country.

It's American money (for the most part) that makes these cartels so wealthy and dangerous.

That'd have to be a really alternate universe, because chasing the drug trail down to the end consumer is a pretty fruitless task and the Mexican government is under the gun from the cartels within its own country. They probably need to keep troops they trust close at hand to protect themselves. There are probably lots of dirty troops working for the cartels.

[vlad]

I suppose in an alternate universe, Mexico could send troops to the US to go after the market that supplies the cash that is tearing apart a chunk of their country.

It's American money (for the most part) that makes these cartels so wealthy and dangerous.

That'd have to be a really alternate universe, because chasing the drug trail down to the end consumer is a pretty fruitless task and the Mexican government is under the gun from the cartels within its own country. They probably need to keep troops they trust close at hand to protect themselves. There are probably lots of dirty troops working for the cartels.

Oh, no disagreement from me there. My point was, a possible American response to the cartels is to invade another country. When said cartels are funded essentially by America. The cartels are responsible for the violence, but they are backed by American money. IN a way, it' s attacking the messenger, a violent, thuggish murderous messenger, no doubt, but if these cartels dissappear, there will others in their place.

[MotleyMaiden]

Personally, I just wish we would wipe out the whole damn country and start over. The violence down there is completely out of control and they even killed that guy who was just enjoying the day on the lake with his wife. The government and police departments are corrupt as hell and I really don't see how they can fix the problem. I know the American market for drugs continue to feed the cartels but they just seem to get even more vicious as time goes on.

Of course, I am aware this is just wishful thinking and that would never happen.

[bane]

I suppose in an alternate universe, Mexico could send troops to the US to go after the market that supplies the cash that is tearing apart a chunk of their country.

It's American money (for the most part) that makes these cartels so wealthy and dangerous.

That'd have to be a really alternate universe, because chasing the drug trail down to the end consumer is a pretty fruitless task and the Mexican government is under the gun from the cartels within its own country. They probably need to keep troops they trust close at hand to protect themselves. There are probably lots of dirty troops working for the cartels.

Oh, no disagreement from me there. My point was, a possible American response to the cartels is to invade another country. When said cartels are funded essentially by America. The cartels are responsible for the violence, but they are backed by American money. IN a way, it' s attacking the messenger, a violent, thuggish murderous messenger, no doubt, but if these cartels dissappear, there will others in their place.

I think US culpability in this is a valid point, but I also think that the Mexican government's role in this is too big to overlook.The cartels never would have achieved the power they currently enjoy if that government hadn't let themselves be bribed into allowing it. You could draw parallels to prohibition era gangsters in the US. The mob made money, lots of it, and there was plenty of violence to go around, but the US government made damn sure they never got out of control. They are completely out of control in Mexico. They basically run that country now. It's rapidly becoming third world, which is really sad when you think about the resources that country has.

[bane]

It's not gonna happen without Mexico's blessing and approval. The US Poncho Villa expedition into Mexico happened after Poncho Villa and his men attacked and burned up the town of Columbus, New Mexico which was largely inhabited by the US Army's 13th Cavalry. The cartels haven't really brought the war over to this side of the fence in that same fashion.

That is true, but how long do you think it will be before something like that happens? The cartels haven't done that, yet. I think it will eventually happen, and when it does, our government will retaliate.

[Skate4RnR]

My money is on 10-15 years. It'll get bad enough.

[lerxstcat]

Personally, I just wish we would wipe out the whole damn country and start over. The violence down there is completely out of control and they even killed that guy who was just enjoying the day on the lake with his wife. The government and police departments are corrupt as hell and I really don't see how they can fix the problem. I know the American market for drugs continue to feed the cartels but they just seem to get even more vicious as time goes on.

Of course, I am aware this is just wishful thinking and that would never happen.

That's 111 million people you want to wipe out! If that's not genocide I don't know what is! I agree that their country is out of control but killing them all is not an option.

[Skate4RnR]

Now I'm not saying I'm for this, I've kicked around the idea of our President and the leaders of Mexico come to a deal to where we get 'em but they preserve their culture. I don't think it'd work, it's just a fantasy so I can impregnate some more Messican chix.

[Drunk Kennedy]

we dont need to invade mexico to resolve this problem...just put our military at the border with instructions to put a bullet in the head of ANYBODY who tries to cross the border into the US illegally.

keep the violence on their side of the border and end illegal immigration all at once.

[Hames Jetfield]

we dont need to invade mexico to resolve this problem...just put our military at the border with instructions to put a bullet in the head of ANYBODY who tries to cross the border into the US illegally.

keep the violence on their side of the border and end illegal immigration all at once.

Wow. Don't you think a leg shot would suffice there? I mean after a few times I think they would get it. Of course, you seem like a hard justice douchebag so...

[David_Lee_Halen]

It's not gonna happen without Mexico's blessing and approval. The US Poncho Villa expedition into Mexico happened after Poncho Villa and his men attacked and burned up the town of Columbus, New Mexico which was largely inhabited by the US Army's 13th Cavalry. The cartels haven't really brought the war over to this side of the fence in that same fashion.

That is true, but how long do you think it will be before something like that happens? The cartels haven't done that, yet. I think it will eventually happen, and when it does, our government will retaliate.

If it does happen like that again on US soil, there's no doubt that the US will retaliate.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

we dont need to invade mexico to resolve this problem...just put our military at the border with instructions to put a bullet in the head of ANYBODY who tries to cross the border into the US illegally.

keep the violence on their side of the border and end illegal immigration all at once.

I'm guessing you've never heard of the Posse Comitatus Act, the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions.

[Constantine]

You people making racist, ignorant comments like that makes you no better than Osama Bin Laden himself!

[bane]

You people making racist, ignorant comments like that makes you no better than Osama Bin Laden himself!

Who made a racist comment?

[Landshark2000]

This isn't good ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39772666/ns ... ?GT1=43001

[Skate4RnR]

OK, I used to want to go to Mexico but I'll wait.

[David_Lee_Halen]

This isn't good ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39772666/ns ... ?GT1=43001

That story along with all of those pics is really fucked up. I feel for the innocent people who live in the middle of this heartbreaking mess.

[lerxstcat]

This isn't good ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39772666/ns ... ?GT1=43001

That sucks really bad, but it's not the kind of incident that would incite US military action in and of itself. If he was there on duty doing something in his miltary role and was shot, that would be another story.

Makes me wonder what would happen if some of his comrades decided to go get some revenge though, and the reprisal to THAT happened on our side. That kind of escalation could get out of hand.

[yeahbuddy]

Obama is a puss. He won't send troops over there but eventually we will NEED to.

This.
To add to comment- As long as Obama is in office, it will never happen. Obama is the kind of guy that thinks he can talk his way into/out of anything. He opened the door to dialog with Iran, what did that get him? He wont stand up for Israel (one of america's biggest allies).
He sees the world a certain way, and that way is not putting the military on the border or in Mexico.

[Skate4RnR]

This isn't good ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39772666/ns ... ?GT1=43001

That sucks really bad, but it's not the kind of incident that would incite US military action in and of itself. If he was there on duty doing something in his miltary role and was shot, that would be another story.

Makes me wonder what would happen if some of his comrades decided to go get some revenge though, and the reprisal to THAT happened on our side. That kind of escalation could get out of hand.

You would know since you sleep with a loaded gun RAMBO.

[bane]

This isn't good ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39772666/ns ... ?GT1=43001

What the hell was he doing in Juarez? I used to go there all the time when I was in high school. We'd go bar hopping then stagger back across the bridge. I think the drinking age was something like 8 over there, and you could get a bucket of beer for about 3 bucks, but no way I'd do that now. They've had something like 1500 murders in that town this year. That's like going to Afghanistan for a family vacation.

[lerxstcat]

This isn't good ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39772666/ns ... ?GT1=43001

That sucks really bad, but it's not the kind of incident that would incite US military action in and of itself. If he was there on duty doing something in his miltary role and was shot, that would be another story.

Makes me wonder what would happen if some of his comrades decided to go get some revenge though, and the reprisal to THAT happened on our side. That kind of escalation could get out of hand.

You would know since you sleep with a loaded gun RAMBO.

I don't sleep with it - it's just within reach. I don't want to blow my head off having a nightmare. I DO have a guitar forum buddy who is a law enforcement officer in New Mexico, about 30 miles north of the border, and he owns an AR-15 and a bunch of other stuff because border incursions have happened out there for many years. It was usually just drunk Mexican soldiers in past years so they weren't actually out to kill, but if somebody caught them over here they might kill them so as to have no witnesses. You're a little far north and east to have that particular worry.