Socialism

[SmokingGun]

I am a flaming, full-on socialist, whether it's health care, higher education fees, or unemployment benefits.. IMO this is one area where the government should be present. But is it still a viable, workable system?

The system can work if executed properly. For example unemployment. Provide ample incentives for people to work, and restrict benefits to people that a)are disabled/cannot work b)retired c)actively looking for a job. Of course for c) the beneficiary must show which companies they applied for a job at, and random checks will be made to make sure the person is really trying to get a job and not turning up to interviews in an Iron Maiden T-Shirt and shorts. If the person falls into any of the above categories, please tell me why they shouldn't be given benefits.

However socialism in Europe is fucked. Too many non-contributing migrants (primarily Muslims, see Sarrazin's book that has detailed stats) are all sucking off the teat of the state. They don't want to work, they don't need to work, why the fuck should they work? And they have heaps of kids, knowing everything is 100% covered by the people that actually go out and work their ass off every day while they sit at home and bitch how xenophobic the gentiles are.

In this era of globalization, I think it's harder to make socialism work than ever before, if indeed it is possible at all. Which is a shame, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada all had a very well functioning (if bureaucratic) system for many decades. But today their systems are hemorraging money and are simply unsustainable.. I would be very very surprised if their current systems are still intact in a decade.

I think socialism will be all but dead before any of us retire.

[CrouchingStonerHiddenBong]

The system can work if executed properly. For example unemployment. Provide ample incentives for people to work, and restrict benefits to people that a)are disabled/cannot work b)retired c)actively looking for a job. Of course for c) the beneficiary must show which companies they applied for a job at, and random checks will be made to make sure the person is really trying to get a job and not turning up to interviews in an Iron Maiden T-Shirt and shorts. If the person falls into any of the above categories, please tell me why they shouldn't be given benefits.

Well, it will certainly help with unemployment when you take into consideration how many people will need to be hired to do these random checks. No need to give money on the unemployed when you can keep that shit at home, right?

Seriously, who needs socialism when you can have a bureaucracy?

[bane]

Seriously, who needs socialism when you can have a bureaucracy?

Word. I may have to steal that for a sig. That's right up there with "I have a dream!".

[CrouchingStonerHiddenBong]

CrouchingStonerHiddenCastro.

[bane]

You should come here more often. Levity, the war board needs it.

[CrouchingStonerHiddenBong]

Fuck levity, it just needs warm bodies at this point.

[MasterOfMeatPuppets]

CrouchingStalinHiddenCastro.

[EvilMadman]

I think socialism will be all but dead before any of us retire.

[SmokingGun]

The system can work if executed properly. For example unemployment. Provide ample incentives for people to work, and restrict benefits to people that a)are disabled/cannot work b)retired c)actively looking for a job. Of course for c) the beneficiary must show which companies they applied for a job at, and random checks will be made to make sure the person is really trying to get a job and not turning up to interviews in an Iron Maiden T-Shirt and shorts. If the person falls into any of the above categories, please tell me why they shouldn't be given benefits.

Well, it will certainly help with unemployment when you take into consideration how many people will need to be hired to do these random checks. No need to give money on the unemployed when you can keep that shit at home, right?

Seriously, who needs socialism when you can have a bureaucracy?

For an unemployed person to collect benefits, they must submit evidence of having looked for work, attended job interviews etc. 99% of these would be filed away. Randomly checking 1% would take minimal resources as the company name, contact information, how the interview went etc. has already been submitted by the unemployed person. All it would take would be one phonecall to verify that the submitted information checks out. One person could easily supervise 500 people with these random inquiries, that's a very low overhead.

[CrouchingStonerHiddenBong]

One person could easily supervise 500 people with these random inquiries, that's a very low overhead.

Dude, come the fuck on. One person supervising 500 people? Assuming you're serious, you should really look into getting a management position in Human Services.

I hate to break it to you, but that's pretty much how the system runs right now. And look what it's gotten us - a person who is so sick of how it's run that their only solution is the process that's already in place.

[SmokingGun]

One person could easily supervise 500 people with these random inquiries, that's a very low overhead.

Dude, come the fuck on. One person supervising 500 people? Assuming you're serious, you should really look into getting a management position in Human Services.

When I meant 1 person supervising 500 I meant strictly in terms of supervising people trying to cheat the system. IMO it is possible as all the legwork would have been done by the person seeking unemployment benefits. All that would be left is making sure that the info checks out.. which means a few dozen phone calls or emails per day, easily done with minimal use of human resources.

Going off topic a bit but addressing the other point you made.. even if it did take more people to maintain such a system, ie creating bullshit jobs.. it wouldn't be much different to other sectors. There's a lot of unnecessary jobs out there. Millions would be unemployed overnight if the tax system was simplified.. but it's complicated on purpose. The IRS/government gets to grow bigger and more powerful, and the multi-billion dollar accounting industry does too. Simplify it and all that money and jobs disappear.

BTW it's nice to see you on the war board, are you for or against socialism?.. if I may be so bold as to ask. I admit I am a bit scared of you, I've seen you rip people to shreds better than anyone else on Sludge.

[CrouchingStonerHiddenBong]

I'm not against socialist practices at all - I'm a social worker by education and most of my work experience. In turn, I think it's hilarious that the amount of money that is spent managing or keeping people from receiving social welfare benefits is almost equal to that of the amount dispensed to the recipients of said benefits. The system is fucked for sure and I don't think anyone who actually works in it would argue to keep it the way it is except for personal employment purposes. The Catch-22 of it is that eliminating programs all together creates even bigger societal and economic problems. We've painted ourselves in a corner, and although I hate saying it, I think we're going to have to see a complete collapse of the system before we can rebuild it and fix it the right way instead of just paying even more people to stick their fingers in the proverbial dam.

On a related note, it's amusing watching the city and state workers flip out about losing their jobs in all of the government spending cuts, especially the people who work in benefits-oriented sectors. They freak out the most because they know full well what happens once you get on the government's dole - it's nearly impossible to get off.


Thanks for the welcome to the board and the admission that you're scared of me. It means a lot to me.

That last part, I mean.

[SmokingGun]

We've painted ourselves in a corner, and although I hate saying it, I think we're going to have to see a complete collapse of the system before we can rebuild it and fix it the right way instead of just paying even more people to stick their fingers in the proverbial dam.

Yes, that's what I was thinking/saying in my op. The system can work and has proven to do so, but with the way things are going now it's clearly not sustainable. Something has to give.

Thanks for the welcome to the board and the admission that you're scared of me. It means a lot to me.

That last part, I mean.

Thanks for not ripping my balls off, they really do mean a lot to me too.