All of these uprisings in Arab nations...

[Total Ass]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing for the rest of the world? Would it be better if the people actually had more of a hand in running these countries, or would it make things even worse than they are with the extremists and such?

[bane]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing for the rest of the world? Would it be better if the people actually had more of a hand in running these countries, or would it make things even worse than they are with the extremists and such?

There are an awful lot of variables in the answer to that question.

[Crazy Levi]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing for the rest of the world? Would it be better if the people actually had more of a hand in running these countries, or would it make things even worse than they are with the extremists and such?

There are an awful lot of variables in the answer to that question.

True. Good for who? Them? Us? The World?

[Total Ass]

I mean good or bad for the non-muslim western countries like the US, UK etc.

From what I've read, the protesters are mostly the young and impoverished. On one hand I'm think it may be good for the youth of these countries to have a go at things. They just may steer things in a more modern, democratic direction. Meaning, more peaceful towards the outside world and striving to become a team player with everyone else. Actually building their countries into social and economic players over time instead of supressing their citizens and clinging to ancient Sharia laws and all of that.

Or it could mean they just want to strip away all obstacles so that they can rally up their full blown Jihad against the rest of the world.

[Crazy Levi]

I mean good or bad for the non-muslim western countries like the US, UK etc.

From what I've read, the protesters are mostly the young and impoverished. On one hand I'm think it may be good for the youth of these countries to have a go at things. They just may steer things in a more modern, democratic direction. Meaning, more peaceful towards the outside world and striving to become a team player with everyone else. Actually building their countries into social and economic players over time instead of supressing their citizens and clinging to ancient Sharia laws and all of that.

Or it could mean they just want to strip away all obstacles so that they can rally up their full blown Jihad against the rest of the world.

Let's face it - for the most part, it's still the dark ages over there, and none of those fuckers can do anything right. I'm sure if there were a successful revolution, it would just be a new set of lunatics taking over in the end.

Love to be proven wrong of course.

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing for the rest of the world? Would it be better if the people actually had more of a hand in running these countries, or would it make things even worse than they are with the extremists and such?

Islam and democracy are incompatible.

[bane]

Let's face it - for the most part, it's still the dark ages over there, and none of those fuckers can do anything right. I'm sure if there were a successful revolution, it would just be a new set of lunatics taking over in the end.

Love to be proven wrong of course.

you don't see too many exames of a moderate government coming out of a coup over there. Usually it's the opposite. See Iran.

[PowerSlaveToTheGrind]

These are just more examples of the rebellions against the oppressive government. No different from any of the other recent 'colour revolutions'. The fact that these are taking place in Arab states rather than former Soviet states makes no difference. As long as stable governments can be formed quickly, extremist groups shouldn't get a look in - people will have no reason to turn to them if the revolution improves their lives.

[cantstopthemusic]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing for the rest of the world?

Not a good thing - if you own a non-electric motor vehicle.

[RichHolt]

They say they want freedom but most of them have crippled their chances of a solid income. The British foreign office has said people should only travel to Egypt or Tunisia if absolutely essential, and both countries rely heavily on tourism. Egypt is pretty much 100% tourism now, other than the odd few dates and other fruits etc, as is Tunisia. Tunisia was only just clear of the 'early years struggle' in tourism, and Egypt relies on its history or diving tourism. Yes, people will travel ASAP, but the hoardes of cash-loaded tourists will be weary of going for a good few years now. One day's major riots can equal 100 days or more of economic loss.

Most of these protestors will work in tourism, being the main employer (especially in such places as Luxor or Cairo) and so they've just cancelled their own paychecks.

Yemen was already volatile, but Algeria and Egypt have only started because they were influenced by their neighbour. And while I doubt it'll get big, I now see similar things happening here in the UK. No, we ain't middle-eastern, and 99% of the country don't need tourism to put food on their plate, but we've already had MAJOR marches against the government, and once someone gets the idea of going all crazy-Arab on the conservatives' asses, Great Britain = ANARCHY IN THE UK! Then again, I'm all for that...

[EvilMadman]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing for the rest of the world? Would it be better if the people actually had more of a hand in running these countries, or would it make things even worse than they are with the extremists and such?

Islam and democracy are incompatible.

An Islamic Democracy for Iraq?
By IAN BURUMA

Published: December 5, 2004

Is ''Islamic democracy'' really possible? Or is it something meaningless, like ''Jewish science,'' say, or contradictory, like ''people's democracy'' under Communism? This is the question that will determine the future of Iraq, since the man with the greatest credibility in that broken country is Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the Shiite cleric, who refuses to run for office himself but says that he supports the idea of Islamic democracy.

The ayatollah insists that an Iraqi constituent assembly must be chosen through direct elections and that ''any basic law written by this assembly must be approved by a national referendum.'' He makes only cursory reference to Koranic law as the basis for that legal code. Any attempts to postpone general elections because of security concerns, especially in the Sunni areas, have also been fiercely resisted. In mid-October, he issued a fatwa requiring all men and women to vote, equating voting with such basic religious duties as fasting during Ramadan. It is the duty of the Shiites, according to the ayatollah, to protect Sunni and Christian interests as well. And although he opposed a plan to allow Kurds, who make up 15 to 20 percent of the Iraqi population, veto power over the constitution, he has not squelched Kurdish hopes of preserving some degree of autonomy under a new government. All these are fine words, of course, yet to be tested in reality. But they are remarkable words for a Shiite cleric born in Iran and should be taken seriously...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/05/magaz ... .html?_r=1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8556065.stm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannon-g ... 32223.html

[TheCULTofMANSON]

NWO 4 Life

[SmokingGun]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing for the rest of the world? Would it be better if the people actually had more of a hand in running these countries, or would it make things even worse than they are with the extremists and such?

Islam and democracy are incompatible.

100% true, but try telling that to the fuckheads who still think Islam is the religion of peace.

[Crazy Levi]

Is this a good thing or a bad thing for the rest of the world? Would it be better if the people actually had more of a hand in running these countries, or would it make things even worse than they are with the extremists and such?

Islam and democracy are incompatible.

100% true, but try telling that to the fuckheads who still think Islam is the religion of peace.

What's peaceful about Democracy? Democratic countries go to war all the time.

I'm pretty sure we've been at war for a decade here in the U.S.

[EvilMadman]

Islam and democracy are incompatible.

100% true, but try telling that to the fuckheads who still think Islam is the religion of peace.

What's peaceful about Democracy? Democratic countries go to war all the time.

I'm pretty sure we've been at war for a decade here in the U.S.

http://www.hawaii.edu/

"Even if the Iraq 'terrorism' data are included, there has still been a substantial decline in the global terrorism toll," said the 2007 Human Security Brief, an annual report funded by the governments of Canada, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden and Britain."

reuters.com May 21, 2008

"Show me a part of the world that is secure in its peace and I will show you strong or growing ties between local militaries and the U. S. military. Show me regions where major war is inconceivable and I will show you permanent U. S. military bases and long-term security alliances. Show me the two strongest investment relationships in the global economy and I will show you two postwar military occupations that remade Europe
and Japan following World War II.

Show me where globalization is thick with network connectivity, financial transactions, liberal media flows, and collective security, and I will show you regions featuring stable governments, rising standards of living, and
more deaths by suicide than murder. These parts of the world I call the Functioning Core, or Core. But show me where globalization is thinning or just plain absent, and I will show you regions plagued by politically
repressive regimes, widespread poverty and disease, routine mass murder, and--most important--the chronic conflicts that incubate the next generation of global terrorists. These parts of the world I call the Non- Integrating Gap, or Gap."

By Thomas P.M. Barnett
The Pentagon's New Map
esquire.com
March 1, 2003, 12:00 AM

[SLASH1976]

Depends who takes the place of the current goverments
If it is a fundamentalist I ain't gonna do much good

[Total Ass]

It took me 10 minutes to read your post dude.

You know, because of all of the tits and everything.

[MurrayFiend]

Is Kuwait next?

Kuwaiti interior minister resigns over custody death

Kuwait's embattled interior minister has stepped down amid rising political tensions that include calls for the first major Gulf street protests.

The emir accepted the resignation of Sheikh Jaber al-Khaled al-Sabah, who quit last month over the death of a man allegedly tortured by police.

He was replaced by a close relative of the ruler, Kuwait's news agency said.

The move comes amid calls for protests on Tuesday against "undemocratic" practices by Kuwait's government.

The youth group, Fifth Fence, has urged people to gather outside the parliament on Tuesday "to declare our rejection of the continuity of this government and its undemocratic practices", the group said in a statement.

Sheikh Jaber had been due to appear in parliament for questioning on Tuesday after a Kuwaiti man arrested for illegal liquor sales was allegedly tortured to death while in police custody on 11 January.

But the inquiry was delayed after the government and its supporters in parliament decided to postpone sessions for six weeks, a move the opposition condemned as unconstitutional.

Fifth Fence stressed that the proposed protest was not linked to any "external events", an apparent reference to the anti-regime demonstrations in Egypt and Tunisia.

The emir has appointed Sheikh Ahmad al-Hamoud al-Sabah, a senior member of the ruling family, as deputy premier and new interior minister. He served as interior minister in 1991-92 and as defence minister in 1994.

Opposition groups have escalated pressure on Kuwait's leadership in recent months over claims of corruption and perceived attempts to roll back political freedoms.

Kuwait's parliament is one of the few elected bodies in the Gulf.

[SeminiferousButtNoid]

Depends who takes the place of the current goverments
If it is a fundamentalist I ain't gonna do much good

If you have radicals taking over (like Islamists or Marxists) then you get another Iran or a giant version of the PLO. If someone comes to power who isn't a fundamentalist (like Mubarak wasn't), the country will still have a repressive regime with a terrible human rights and civil liberties record. There are two types of Middle Eastern governments, bad and worse. It's kind of depressing that we are all hoping for another bad one.

[EvilMadman]

"Our [the United States] biggest concern isn’t really the outcome of the first free Egyptian election; it’s preventing the cancellation or theft of the second free election (and the third free election, and the fourth free election, etc.)." -Reuel Marc Gerecht

[Total Ass]

Shit, now Algeria is getting in on the action.

By AOMAR OUALI, Associated Press Aomar Ouali, Associated Press – 13 mins ago

ALGIERS, Algeria – Thousands of Algerians defied a government ban on protests and a massive deployment of riot police to rally in the capital Saturday, demanding democratic reforms a day after similar protests toppled Egypt's authoritarian leader.

Heavily armed police tried to seal off the city of Algiers, blocking streets, lining up along the march route and setting up barricades outside the city to try to stop busloads of demonstrators from reaching the capital.

But despite the heavy security, thousands flooded into downtown Algiers, clashing with police who reportedly outnumbered them at least three-to-one. A human rights activist said more than 400 people were arrested.

Tensions have been high in this sprawling North African nation of 35 million since five days of riots in early January over high food prices. Despite its vast gas reserves, Algeria has long been beset by widespread poverty and high unemployment, and some have predicted it could be next Arab country hit by the popular protests that have already ousted two longtime Arab leaders in a month.

Protesters chanted "No to the police state!" and "Bouteflika out!" — a reference to President Abdelaziz Bouteflika, who has led the nation since 1999.

The heavy police presence and barricades turned Saturday's 3-mile (5-kilometer) march into a rally at the First of May square.

Ali Yahia Abdenour, head of the Algerian League for the Defense of Human Rights, said women and foreign journalists were among those detained Saturday. Abdenour, 83, was also jostled by security forces who surrounded him and tried to persuade him to go home.

Under Algeria's nearly two-decades-long state of emergency, protests are banned in the capital, but many ignored repeated government warnings to stay away. One activist called Saturday's protest a key turning point.

"This demonstration is a success because it's been 10 years that people haven't been able to march in Algiers and there's a sort of psychological barrier," said Ali Rachedi, the former head of the Front of Socialist Forces party. "The fear is gone."

Organizers said an estimated 28,000 security forces were on hand for the protest, which they said drew about 10,000 participants. Officials put the protest turnout at around 1,500.

Said Sadi, head of the opposition Rally for Culture and Democracy, RCD, said the scale of the police deployment showed "the fear of this government, which is in dire straits."

"We're going to continue to demonstrate and to defy the authorities until they fall," Sadi vowed.

Saturday's protest came just a day after an uprising in Egypt forced Hosni Mubarak to resign after 30 years in power and a month after another "people's revolution" in neighboring Tunisia forced autocrat Zine El Abidine Ben Ali into exile on Jan. 14.

The success of those uprisings is fueling activists' hope for change in Algeria, although many in this conflict-scarred nation fear any prospect of violence after living through a brutal Islamist insurgency in the 1990s that left an estimated 200,000 people dead.

Saturday's rally was organized by the Coordination for Democratic Change in Algeria, an umbrella group for human rights activists, unionists, lawyers and others. It was called to press for democratic reforms but did not specifically demand that Bouteflika resign.

Bouteflika, a 73-year-old plagued with health problems, hails from a single-party system that has loosened but remained in power since Algeria's independence from colonial master France in 1962. Widely credited with pacifying a country ravaged by insurgency, Bouteflika is blamed for not doing enough to spread Algeria's oil and gas riches among his people.

Many Algerians see Bouteflika as too old and secluded to relate to the public. However, he handily won a third term in 2009, garnering 90 percent of the vote in a race that pitted him against five low-profile challengers.

To quell tensions after January's food riots, the government slashed the price of sugar and cooking oil. Last week, mindful of the Tunisian and Egyptian protests, authorities said the state of emergency — in place since 1992 — will be lifted in the "very near future." They warned that the ban on demonstrations in the capital would remain.

The Islamist insurgency was set off by the army's decision to cancel Algeria's first multiparty election in January 1992 in order to thwart a likely victory by a Muslim fundamentalist party. Scattered violence continues.

[Woland]

"Our [the United States] biggest concern isn’t really the outcome of the first free Egyptian election; it’s preventing the cancellation or theft of the second free election (and the third free election, and the fourth free election, etc.)." -Reuel Marc Gerecht

ie. we're scared that we're going to lose more power .

[SLASH1976]

Depends who takes the place of the current goverments
If it is a fundamentalist I ain't gonna do much good

If you have radicals taking over (like Islamists or Marxists) then you get another Iran or a giant version of the PLO. If someone comes to power who isn't a fundamentalist (like Mubarak wasn't), the country will still have a repressive regime with a terrible human rights and civil liberties record. There are two types of Middle Eastern governments, bad and worse. It's kind of depressing that we are all hoping for another bad one.

True. Israel is getting nervous I reckon

[Woland]

yes, Israel is nervous that this 'uprising' spreads to their country. Israeli youth are sick and tired of the bullshit their country does.

[lerxstcat]

yes, Israel is nervous that this 'uprising' spreads to their country. Israeli youth are sick and tired of the bullshit their country does.

Yeah, but the Israeli government probably has tight control of its military, unlike Egypt or the other Arab countries.

I hope that democracy is the future of Egypt rather than a Sharia law Islamic government that would be even more repressive than Mubarak's was. You have to hand it to the people for standing up. It's scary because it could destabilize, but I hope that they get what they just fought for, rather than oppression under a different name.

[Woland]

eh, tight military isn't really worth shit unless you're willing to massacre your own people just to justify your presence. again, the media is too strong in this case. all they can do is spin the story.

this is just the beginning. the only worries i have are countries like Israel, the US, UK, France, China, etc,... trying to sabotage this.

this has scared every government in the world. Egyptians are too goddamn cocky and open-minded to go backwards. even if muslims take over... there won't be a sharia law.

even the US media has tried to make a joke of this. like all of a sudden, people got fed up at Mubarak and decided it was time for him to go. nothing about america's foreign pimp hand being very weak right now ( thanks obama and hillary for making America look even dumber! ), nothing about ARAB rights, nothing about Israel's evil tactics and it's need to open up, nothing about pan-arabism...

basically, al-jazeera just stole even more hearts <3.

so let's hope the west doesn't try to take the world down with it, because this will do a lot of good for middle easterners and persians and etc,... unless you bozos fuck it up again like you did in Iraq .

[LSDisease]

Gaddafi he's the man. Most crazy motherfucker of islamic world.

[SLASH1976]

Gaddafi he's the man. Most crazy motherfucker of islamic world.

Yup
Having oil makes u get away with anything for decades

[LSDisease]

Gaddafi he's the man. Most crazy motherfucker of islamic world.

Yup
Having oil makes u get away with anything for decades

I wish him all the best. At least he's not a hypocrite like Obama.

[PowerSlaveToTheGrind]

I wish him all the best. At least he's not a hypocrite like Obama.

So you're suggesting that murdering your own citizens is better than hypocrisy?