A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some time

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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Kid-Wicked »

Subhuman Yeti wrote:Up until a couple decades ago, the NBA did refer to the Finals winners as the World Champions.

There was the Olympic Gold Medal team (every 4 years and made up of college, AiA players
and other schmoes) and the NBA/World Champions.


Then someone started to complain about the NBA claiming World Champs.

So the NBA sent the Dream Team to the Summer Olympics and the Dream Team beat the shit out
of the world.
Magic Johnson was a God... WTF did you expect?!!


That was back then. And the NBA pretty much continued to call themselves the World Champs.




More recently since the World FIBA shit has existed and the winners are officially the World Champions
(like Lamar Odom) the NBA has started calling the Finals winners only the NBA Champions.


So fuck off, shitted for brains.
that's cool if the league smartened up. good for them. i just gained some respect for them.
now someone tell the players it isn't a world championship. lol.

what happened with the dream team in 2004?
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Subhuman Yeti »

2004

No idea. Don't care.


Olympic sports have fucking STUPID rules.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Tommy »

Kid-Wicked wrote:

there might not be a basketball league better then the nba. how does that make them world champions? do the best players in the world play in the nba? probably. i don't know. maybe argentina has a good league. didn't they win a real world championship in the olympics a few years ago when the u.s.a got third? i've never watched any other league. i don't know anyone that has to be honest with you. probably because basketball sucks in EVERY country.

Maybe Argentina DOES have a good league. However, I'm willing to bet the best Argentinian player is or wants to be in the NBA. Olympics have nothing to do with it because the best from overseas come here too. It's not an "American" thing, it's an NBA thing. With that said, American's are still the best b-ball players, but the world is catching up.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by johnk5150 »

Tommy wrote:
Crazy Levi wrote:
Kid-Wicked wrote:good riddance.
I agree. Fuck the NBA and it's 3 month long playoffs. Fuck hockey too.

Now I know why we butt heads :x


Anyway, NBA probably is losing a lot of money. However, their "product" has been shit for ten years or so.
Uh...the product and especially it's players are better than ever. Stern cleaned his house the fuck up after the little fight in Detroit. The NFL is the league with horrible people.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Skate4RnR »

NeverSurrender wrote:Yeah, that Cuse championship is the only championship any of my teams have won since 1988. Unless you count their lacrosse championships but I'm not a huge fan.

Thank God for that night, but i'm glad you got yours.
That's the beauty of the tournament, you have to play well in all of your games. If you don't, you're done. Syracuse is so well coached, great basketball to watch every year. I respect the Orange and am a fan.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Tommy »

johnk5150 wrote:
Uh...the product and especially it's players are better than ever. Stern cleaned his house the fuck up after the little fight in Detroit. The NFL is the league with horrible people.

WHAT?

The game is total bullshit now. Not allowed to play D, yes I said you are not allowed to play D. The refs are horrible. The NBA loves to pretend that the Tim Donegy thing never happened.

There's probably 6 teams that can win each year and usually they are the same teams.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by johnk5150 »

Tommy wrote:
johnk5150 wrote:
Uh...the product and especially it's players are better than ever. Stern cleaned his house the fuck up after the little fight in Detroit. The NFL is the league with horrible people.

WHAT?

The game is total bullshit now. Not allowed to play D, yes I said you are not allowed to play D.
Not allowed to handcheck is not even close to the same as not allowed to play defense.

When you're watching NBA defense, watch all five guys. Team defense is much more interesting than than gay ass man to man that allowed superstars like Jordan and Iverson to isolate one side of the floor and drop forty on any given night. The bottom line is the NBA has so many great basketball players (not just athletes) that it may look like teams aren't playing defense because they're playing against the best players in the world.

The worst defensive NBA team last year would shut down the best offensive college team. Fact.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Tommy »

johnk5150 wrote:
Tommy wrote:
johnk5150 wrote:
Uh...the product and especially it's players are better than ever. Stern cleaned his house the fuck up after the little fight in Detroit. The NFL is the league with horrible people.

WHAT?

The game is total bullshit now. Not allowed to play D, yes I said you are not allowed to play D.
Not allowed to handcheck is not even close to the same as not allowed to play defense.

When you're watching NBA defense, watch all five guys. Team defense is much more interesting than than gay ass man to man that allowed superstars like Jordan and Iverson to isolate one side of the floor and drop forty on any given night. The bottom line is the NBA has so many great basketball players (not just athletes) that it may look like teams aren't playing defense because they're playing against the best players in the world.

The worst defensive NBA team last year would shut down the best offensive college team. Fact.

Dude, teams are over the limit in the 3rd quarter these days. Proof that refs call too much shit and don't let them play. It's nonsense. No sports has the phantom calls on the level the NBA does.


And of course the worst nba team would shut down the best NCAA team. Defense/Offense doesn't matter. Men vs. Boys, wouldn't be close.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by FullDJacket »

LillianRoxyFA wrote:I think the NBA has the worst product of all 4 major sports. The playoffs generate some exciting games, but the NBA style of play is often hard to watch.

To me, the bottom line is that NBA players make way too much $$$ in proportion to the sport's popularity and effort. Stories abound about over the hill slackers making 12 million for doing nothing. Yes, the owners agreed to it, and now it's time to fix it.
Have to disagree. NBA has so many competitive teams right now and with Carmelos move to the Knicks most of the big city teams will perform next season. They have the ultimate antagonists in Miami. Kobe and Gasol in LA, Dirk in Dallas. Which hockey players or baseball stars are getting the same buzz?
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Kid-Wicked »

when did the rule for traveling change to "take 3 or 4 steps and jump"?
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Tenacious_Dio »

Kid-Wicked wrote:when did the rule for traveling change to "take 3 or 4 steps and jump"?
About 25 years ago. :|
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by johnk5150 »

Tenacious_Dio wrote:
Kid-Wicked wrote:when did the rule for traveling change to "take 3 or 4 steps and jump"?
About 25 years ago. :|
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Kid-Wicked »

johnk5150 wrote:
Tenacious_Dio wrote:
Kid-Wicked wrote:when did the rule for traveling change to "take 3 or 4 steps and jump"?
About 25 years ago. :|
Patrick Ewing.
it seems to have gotten worse over the years.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Subhuman Yeti »

it seems to have gotten worse over the years.


-- NBA officiating overall and in general.




Some asshole sportswriter Zirin or some shit was on MSNBC tonight saying the NBA just had it's best season in years...
Highest playoff ratings in a long time, $4 billion+ in NBA revenue...



Somewhere around 20 teams didn't turn a profit, the NBA outright bought the Hornets to save their asses and several teams are approaching bankruptcy and now there is an owners lockout.


That was actually considered a great season for the NBA?

Or just a great season for the NBA front office... and a fucking shit season for most of it's teams front offices?
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Subhuman Yeti »

Union: 'Adequate basis' to question NBA's financial outlook


Posted Jul 6 2011 11:40AM - Updated Jul 6 2011 9:37PM

NEW YORK (AP) -- The NBA players' association will keep doubting the league's financial losses, since it made inaccurate projections before.

Doesn't matter, the league says, since those projections have nothing to do with the final numbers it turns over to the union and insists can't be disputed.

Wednesday, Day 6 of the lockout, featured sparring by union and league officials over financial information, a day after a report questioned whether the NBA indeed lost money two seasons ago.

Though the NBA says it lost $340 million in 2009-10, a New York Times blog post Tuesday titled "Calling Foul on NBA's Claims of Financial Distress'' called the league "fundamentally a healthy and profitable business" with an estimated operating income of $183 million that season.

Union spokesman Dan Wasserman said the NBA projected a decline in revenues that season but they actually rose, so the final losses should have been much less than the league said.

"In 2009-10, the NBA repeatedly offered projections that league revenues would decline as much as 5 percent, or $180 million, while also projecting losses of $370 million. Revenues were actually up in `09-10 and the revenue projections were off by as much as $200 million. Yet, the loss figures were only adjusted by $30 million. So yes, we feel there is more than adequate basis for questioning their projections and financials," Wasserman said.

Because of the projected losses, the league forecast a steep drop in the salary cap for the 2010-11 season, saying it could fall as low as $50.4 million. Instead, it was set at $58 million after the higher-than-expected revenues following a seven-game finals between the Lakers and Celtics allowed the league to finish slightly up.

But that didn't save the league from the overall losses it says are documented in the data it has handed over to the union.

"For Dan Wasserman to suggest that the league's future revenue projection, made before the start of the 2009-10 season during the worst economy in 80 years (which, by the way, turned out to be off by only 3 and a half percent) somehow relates to the veracity of our year-end audited financials is absurd," NBA spokesman Mike Bass said. "Mr. Wasserman's questioning of the league's audited financials based on this missed projection is a complete non-sequitur."

The Times story was based on estimates prepared by Forbes and Financial World magazines. Bass said Tuesday the information was inaccurate, saying Forbes "does not have the financial data for our teams and the magazine's estimates do not reflect reality." The league added it believed Financial World had gone out of business.

"Precisely to avoid this issue, the NBA and its teams shared their complete league and team audited financials as well as our state and federal tax returns with the players union," Bass said. "Those financials demonstrate the substantial and indisputable losses the league has incurred over the past several years."

The league projected losses of $300 million last season after losses of several hundred million dollars in each season of the CBA, which was ratified in 2005. Owners locked out the players last week after they could not agree on a new deal.

The union has frequently questioned the league's financials, acknowledging losses but not anywhere near what the NBA has stated. The players offered to give up $100 million in salary costs annually in a recent proposal for a new five-year deal, believing that was more in line with the true losses.

The story was also skeptical, saying perhaps about $250 million of the purported losses results "from an unusual accounting treatment related to depreciation and amortization when a team is sold." The NBA responded that it uses the conventional and generally accepted accounting (GAAP) approach and does not include purchase price amortization from when a team is sold, with Bass saying "put simply, none of the league losses are related to team purchase or sale accounting."

The league followed up with another response Wednesday, arguing that "the notion that $250 million of losses is due to `accounting procedures' is patently false and so vague an assertion as to be meaningless as a matter of financial analysis."

Because the NBA had such a successful 2010-11 season, with growth in TV ratings, and merchandise and ticket sales, the league has struggled to convince fans it needs the massive financial changes owners are seeking from the players.

But Bass said the league never had a positive net or operating income in the last CBA, and that 11 teams had net losses of more than $20 million in the 2009-10 season. He added 23 of the 30 teams lost money that season. Forbes estimated there were 17.

"We do not know how they do their calculations," Bass said.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/07/06/unio ... index.html
Last edited by Subhuman Yeti on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Subhuman Yeti »

NBA disputes blog post on league's financial losses


Posted Jul 6 2011 8:27AM

NEW YORK (AP) -- The NBA is disputing a report questioning its financial losses, saying the estimates used as the basis of the article "do not reflect reality.''

A New York Times blog post Tuesday titled "Calling Foul on NBA's Claims of Financial Distress'' called the league "fundamentally a healthy and profitable business'' with an estimated operating income of $183 million in 2009-10, making a 5 to 7 percent profit during the life of the collective bargaining agreement that expired last week.

The story was based on estimates prepared by Forbes and Financial World magazines. NBA spokesman Mike Bass said the information was inaccurate, saying Forbes "does not have the financial data for our teams and the magazine's estimates do not reflect reality.''

"Precisely to avoid this issue, the NBA and its teams shared their complete league and team audited financials as well as our state and federal tax returns with the players union,'' Bass said. "Those financials demonstrate the substantial and indisputable losses the league has incurred over the past several years.''

The league has projected losses of $300 million last season after losses of several hundred million dollars in each season of the CBA, which was ratified in 2005. Owners locked out the players last week after they could not agree on a new deal.

The union has frequently questioned the league's financials, saying it believes there were losses but not anywhere near what the NBA has stated. The players offered to give up $100 million in salary costs annually in a recent proposal for a new five-year deal, believing that was more in line with the true losses.

Because the NBA had such a successful 2010-11 season, with growth in TV ratings, and merchandise and ticket sales, the league has struggled to convince fans it needs the massive financial changes owners are seeking from the players.

But Bass said the league never had a positive net or operating income in the last CBA, and that 11 teams had net losses of more than $20 million in the 2009-10 season.

He said the losses from that season, the one studied in the article, were $340 million and that 23 of the 30 teams lost money that season. Forbes estimated there were 17.

"We do not know how they do their calculations,'' Bass said.

The union did not respond to a request for comment

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/07/06/nba- ... index.html
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Subhuman Yeti »

NBA's response to July 6 story on league's financial losses

By Official statement
Posted Jul 6 2011 2:42PM

NEW YORK -- The NBA supplied The New York Times yesterday with a point by point rebuttal of Nate Silver's blog posting on the NBA's financial losses. The New York Times incorporated the NBA's response into the online version of the story with the following acknowledgement from the reporter: "I simply have no way to adjudicate the NBA's claims."

In today's print edition, The New York Times inexplicably chose to ignore almost all of the NBA's responses, despite the fact that Nate Silver's blog was based solely on two sources: Forbes Magazine and a now defunct magazine called Financial World which as best we know went out of business in 1998.

Precisely to avoid this issue in our ongoing collective bargaining negotiations with the players' union, we shared with the union our complete league and team audited financials along with our state and Federal tax returns. The New York Times' position is that unless we are willing to disclose those same confidential financial documents to them it is appropriate for them to publish a story based on uncorroborated and unsubstantiated news reports.

Among the omissions and examples of flawed analysis in today's New York Times print edition:

"According to data published by Forbes Magazine ... the NBA made $183 million in 2009-10 before interest and taxes."

Forbes' data is inaccurate; Forbes does not have the financial data for our teams and the magazine's estimates are wrong and unreliable. Our losses for 2009-10 were $340 million.

"17 of the 30 NBA teams lost money in 2009-10. Most of the losses were small."

Forbes' claim is inaccurate. In 2009-10, 23 teams had net income losses. The losses were in no way "small" as 11 teams lost more than $20 million each on a net income basis.

"The profits made by the Knicks, the Bulls and the Lakers alone could cover the losses of all 17 unprofitable teams."

The Knicks, Bulls and Lakers combined net income for 2009-10 does not cover the losses of the 23 unprofitable teams. Our net loss for that year, including the gains from the seven profitable teams, was $340 million.

"First, according to the union, many of the supposed losses, perhaps about $250 million, are a result of accounting procedures."

The notion that $250 million of losses is due to "accounting procedures" is patently false and so vague an assertion as to be meaningless as a matter of financial analysis. In any event, there is no attribution for this statement and it seems like a curious opportunity for The New York Times to break its own policy on anonymous sources.

"(The NBA) is a fundamentally healthy and profitable business"

The league lost money every year of the just-expired CBA. During these years, the league has never had positive Net Income, EBITDA or Operating Income.

"[T]he leaked financial statements for one team, the New Orleans Hornets, closely matched the Forbes data."

The reporter acknowledged in yesterday's online posting that Forbes' profit/loss estimates for the two years at issue were off by roughly $9 million and $6 million, respectively, compared to the Hornets' financial statements. We are hard-pressed to understand how discrepancies of this magnitude could lead an unbiased observer to conclude that Forbes' numbers "closely matched" actual reported results.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/07/06/nba- ... index.html
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by johnk5150 »

Wojneroski from Yahoo said 20 of the 30 teams would lose less money if there's no season. That's a problem. They created the problem by giving guys like Raef Lafrentz max contracts to not even suit up, but they need to fix it.

This CANNOT be as hard as the NFL structure. It'll never happen but I'd love to see them throw away guaranteed contracts.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Tommy »

FullDJacket wrote:
LillianRoxyFA wrote:I think the NBA has the worst product of all 4 major sports. The playoffs generate some exciting games, but the NBA style of play is often hard to watch.

To me, the bottom line is that NBA players make way too much $$$ in proportion to the sport's popularity and effort. Stories abound about over the hill slackers making 12 million for doing nothing. Yes, the owners agreed to it, and now it's time to fix it.
Have to disagree. NBA has so many competitive teams right now and with Carmelos move to the Knicks most of the big city teams will perform next season. They have the ultimate antagonists in Miami. Kobe and Gasol in LA, Dirk in Dallas. Which hockey players or baseball stars are getting the same buzz?


Lay off the ESPN-led NBA hype machine.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by FullDJacket »

Subhuman Yeti wrote:
That was actually considered a great season for the NBA?

Or just a great season for the NBA front office... and a fucking shit season for most of it's teams front offices?
Listen it's cynical but it's true. As long as the NY,LA and Chicago teams are doing well + a couple of strongholds like Boston, Miami, Atlanta it's as good as it's going to get.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Tenacious_Dio »

It's not widely reported, but Bob Johnson bought the Charlotte Bobcats for $300 million, and recently sold them to Michael Jordan for $175 million. Now you can say the NBA gave Jordan a discount, but still. That's the type of transaction that keeps NBA owners awake at night. And why they won't mind missing a season if they can break the players union. :|
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by johnk5150 »

Subhuman Yeti wrote:
it seems to have gotten worse over the years.


-- NBA officiating overall and in general.




Some asshole sportswriter Zirin or some shit was on MSNBC tonight saying the NBA just had it's best season in years...
Highest playoff ratings in a long time, $4 billion+ in NBA revenue...



Somewhere around 20 teams didn't turn a profit, the NBA outright bought the Hornets to save their asses and several teams are approaching bankruptcy and now there is an owners lockout.


That was actually considered a great season for the NBA?

Or just a great season for the NBA front office... and a fucking shit season for most of it's teams front offices?
It's time for Stern and the ref's to do away with the unwritten different rules for different players. As an NBA guy I've become used to it, but it's plain as fuck the casual fan will never come back to the game as long as there's no consistency in calls.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Subhuman Yeti »

johnk5150 wrote:
It's time for Stern and the ref's to do away with the unwritten different rules for different players. As an NBA guy I've become used to it, but it's plain as fuck the casual fan will never come back to the game as long as there's no consistency in calls.


Yes, johnk5150 should replace David Stern at the helm of the NBA.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by killeverything »

Subhuman Yeti wrote:
johnk5150 wrote:
It's time for Stern and the ref's to do away with the unwritten different rules for different players. As an NBA guy I've become used to it, but it's plain as fuck the casual fan will never come back to the game as long as there's no consistency in calls.


Yes, johnk5150 should replace David Stern at the helm of the NBA.
I would watch the NBA again if that shit wasn't going on anymore.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Tommy »

killeverything wrote:
Subhuman Yeti wrote:
johnk5150 wrote:
It's time for Stern and the ref's to do away with the unwritten different rules for different players. As an NBA guy I've become used to it, but it's plain as fuck the casual fan will never come back to the game as long as there's no consistency in calls.


Yes, johnk5150 should replace David Stern at the helm of the NBA.
I would watch the NBA again if that shit wasn't going on anymore.

Yep. I watch/know about the NBA because I'm a bartender and it basically just happens.

johnk5150: This is what I was talking about. NBA is dead compared to 20 years ago. Talent, game play, almost everything.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by johnk5150 »

Subhuman Yeti wrote:
johnk5150 wrote:
It's time for Stern and the ref's to do away with the unwritten different rules for different players. As an NBA guy I've become used to it, but it's plain as fuck the casual fan will never come back to the game as long as there's no consistency in calls.


Yes, johnk5150 should replace David Stern at the helm of the NBA.
I'm unqualified as I made refs possessive.
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Royal Dudeness »

The reason the NBA is fucked is because it's filled with a bunch of niggers that just want to get paid instead of winning. It may sound fucked up, but it's true.

These guys just scream of only caring about the $$$ and fame. It exists in other leagues too, but not even close to the same level as the NBA.
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Post by Subhuman Yeti »

Royal Dudeness


You're a fucking piece of crap
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by Tymaster »

johnk5150 wrote:
Subhuman Yeti wrote:
it seems to have gotten worse over the years.


-- NBA officiating overall and in general.




Some asshole sportswriter Zirin or some shit was on MSNBC tonight saying the NBA just had it's best season in years...
Highest playoff ratings in a long time, $4 billion+ in NBA revenue...



Somewhere around 20 teams didn't turn a profit, the NBA outright bought the Hornets to save their asses and several teams are approaching bankruptcy and now there is an owners lockout.


That was actually considered a great season for the NBA?

Or just a great season for the NBA front office... and a fucking shit season for most of it's teams front offices?
It's time for Stern and the ref's to do away with the unwritten different rules for different players. As an NBA guy I've become used to it, but it's plain as fuck the casual fan will never come back to the game as long as there's no consistency in calls.
Agree times ten. At this point, I don't believe there will be a 2011-2012 season at all. In order to salvage the league, there needs to be a hard salary cap, a franchise player tag, and revenue sharing. Only 9 teams have won the title since 1980. The only way you're going to sell tickets in smaller markets (and the league can't survive without them contrary to what Knicks and Lakers fans think) is to have a little more parity. No more team stacking. If it takes an entire lost season for the union and the league to figure this out, so be it.
LouDoo wrote:Neon has to be the most active poster who actually contributes the least, despite all the threads he starts. He has no redeeming value. He's completely useless.
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johnk5150
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Re: A lockout is coming to NBA and it'll be here for some ti

Post by johnk5150 »

Royal Dudeness wrote:The reason the NBA is fucked is because it's filled with a bunch of niggers that just want to get paid instead of winning. It may sound fucked up, but it's true.
Yeah. You don't watch the game.
He's like the Liberace of bass & pot.

$tevil
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