NFL 2011 Thread

[bane]

I'm glad the Lions are good this year, and it should be a fun game to watch. But you can't deny that, for the most part, the Lions have been the Thanksgiving guest that you want to leave.

It wasn't all bad. Since most of those games were such blowouts, it made for a good post turkey nap.

[NeverSurrender]

P13, you're an idiot. No NFL team can carry Both Manning's salary, and a number 1 overall pick's salary at the same position. Stab yourself.

Do you watch football? You're calling me an idiot, yet apparently you're unaware of the fact that as part of the new collective bargaining agreement, the NFL instituted a new rookie wage scale which eliminates the monster rookie contracts of the past. With the scale, rookie wages are decreased dramatically. Cam Newton, last year's number one pick, signed a 4 year contract worth 22 million. Not bad, but nowhere near what a #1 pick would have made one year prior.

On top of that, Peyton's contract is front-loaded and his cap number for the last three years of his contract are very low. It will be definitely feasible for the Colts to have both players on their roster.

Know your shit before you open your mouth, boy.

Even if that is the contract, it's still too much, and there is no way the number 1 overall pick is going to be anybody's backup for 4 years.

It is not feasible at all. You're an idiot.

[NeverSurrender]

Indy has an out clause on Manning's contract in 2012 that would save them most of the $90 million deal they signed with him. If they don't think he is going to be the same as before his surgeries they will use it. Why do you think they included it in the first place?

Another reason p13 is a moron. Iwould like p13 to find any number 1 overall pick at any postion much less qb sat behind somebody else for 3 or 4 years. Hey, we're paying you 8 million a year to ride the bench, and we're not even sure you're good yet. Ahh it doesn't matter. We will wait to your first contract is slmost up before we put you in the game.

God, you're dumb.

[Crazy Levi]

Hey remember when everyone was clamoring to get the Lions removed from the annual Thanksgiving home game!? As much as the Lions sucked, I hated the idea. Some things are sacred. The Lions and the Cowboys hosting games on Thanksgiving is one of them. Thank God the "no more Lions on Thanksgiving" crowd is now shut the hell up.

It was a stupid idea (removing the Lions from Tgiving) but I'm sure the crowd has indeed shut the hell up, and are probably happy.

But don't take it so personally...nobody hated the Lions, they just hated shitty football every year on Tgiving. Thank God the Cowboys have been good most of the time.

It seriously did kind of suck...20 years of horrible games. They weren't even "fun to watch" bad, they were bad bad. FOREVER.

[Crazy Levi]

Indy has an out clause on Manning's contract in 2012 that would save them most of the $90 million deal they signed with him. If they don't think he is going to be the same as before his surgeries they will use it. Why do you think they included it in the first place?

Irsay today said that he'd certainly consider drafting Luck, and that he wants to emulate the QB handoff that the Packers did from Favre and Rodgers.

Without the messy divorce?

I think Manning isn't gonna go kicking and screaming like Favre, but there is a real possibility we see him playing for another team next year. The Colts are as bad as anybody, and Irsay is obviously drooling at the prospect of getting Luck.

If he is able to pull this off, I'll be impressed. I guess we'll see Manning in Minny next season.

[SkyDog112046]

Indy has an out clause on Manning's contract in 2012 that would save them most of the $90 million deal they signed with him. If they don't think he is going to be the same as before his surgeries they will use it. Why do you think they included it in the first place?

Irsay today said that he'd certainly consider drafting Luck, and that he wants to emulate the QB handoff that the Packers did from Favre and Rodgers.

Without the messy divorce?

I think Manning isn't gonna go kicking and screaming like Favre, but there is a real possibility we see him playing for another team next year. The Colts are as bad as anybody, and Irsay is obviously drooling at the prospect of getting Luck.

If he is able to pull this off, I'll be impressed. I guess we'll see Manning in Minny next season.

If the out clause was for 2013 then it would make sense to draft Luck and have him watch Manning for a year. But the clause is for March '12 to coincide with the free agent period. There is no way they'd draft Luck and have the two of them there for 3 or 4 years. Either they dump Manning to take Luck or they trade the pick.

Even if Manning can't move from the neck down he would be an upgrade over McNabb.

[Tenacious_Dio]

Irsay today said that he'd certainly consider drafting Luck, and that he wants to emulate the QB handoff that the Packers did from Favre and Rodgers.

If I'm Andrew Luck and I hear that kind of talk, I'm skipping the 2012 draft.

(assuming the Colts have the #1 pick, of course)

[NeverSurrender]

Irsay today said that he'd certainly consider drafting Luck, and that he wants to emulate the QB handoff that the Packers did from Favre and Rodgers.

If I'm Andrew Luck and I hear that kind of talk, I'm skipping the 2012 draft.

(assuming the Colts have the #1 pick, of course)

Not to mention Rodgers wasn't the number one overall pick. Irsay has lost his fucking mind, or he's just trying to make people and Peyton believe he will be with the team for a while longer.

[SkyDog112046]

Another thing to consider, even if Manning had a small contract and money wasn't an issue, is that Manning is not the type to help groom another QB. Part of the problem Indy has faced in getting a quality backup is that Manning won't allow them to get any reps. If you had the 1st pick and thought that Luck was the answer for the next 12-15 years, why would you bring him in to be a subordinate to someone who would stunt his growth?

If Indy gets Luck it makes more sense for them to send Manning packing and build an offense suited to Luck's abilities. They would probably need a new Offensive Coordinator as well.

[NeverSurrender]

I think Peyton would be cool with a guy drafted later, but Peyton's not as dumb as P13 and he knows no number 1 overall pick is going to sit on anybody's bench for 4 years without being given a chance. It ain't happening.

[bane]

I think Peyton would be cool with a guy drafted later, but Peyton's not as dumb as P13 and he knows no number 1 overall pick is going to sit on anybody's bench for 4 years without being given a chance. It ain't happening.

I don't think Peyton would be cool with it at all. As competitive as that guy is he'd be pissed that they didn't use the pick to help him win now. I wouldn't blame him. That team has a lot of holes.

[NeverSurrender]

I think Peyton would be cool with a guy drafted later, but Peyton's not as dumb as P13 and he knows no number 1 overall pick is going to sit on anybody's bench for 4 years without being given a chance. It ain't happening.

I don't think Peyton would be cool with it at all. As competitive as that guy is he'd be pissed that they didn't use the pick to help him win now. I wouldn't blame him. That team has a lot of holes.

I wonder how he feels now. Maybe that's why they never had a real backup qb. Now they're paying for it. I still think the guy's career is over anyways.

[WTF]

I wonder how he feels now. Maybe that's why they never had a real backup qb. Now they're paying for it. I still think the guy's career is over anyways.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Curtis Painter. That team has bigger problems than Curtis Painter.

[poizond13]

I think Peyton would be cool with a guy drafted later, but Peyton's not as dumb as P13 and he knows no number 1 overall pick is going to sit on anybody's bench for 4 years without being given a chance. It ain't happening.

Wrong. Colts owner, Mr. Jim Irsay:

"Guys like that come along so rarely," Irsay said of Luck, considered by many a can't-miss NFL quarterback. "Even if that means that guy sits for three or four years, you'd certainly think about taking him.


"You see what Green Bay did with Favre and Rodgers and you'd like to be able to do the same thing."


So obviously, you are wrong. Jim Irsay is already saying they would consider taking luck and having him sit 3-4 years. It worked well with Rodgers and Favre. They were never the best of friends, but ultimately Rodgers did learn from Favre. Rodgers was not a #1 pick, but he was one of the top ranked QBs in the draft. Obviously I don't know how luck would feel about it, but I would think being drafted by one of the best organizations in the league and learning from the best of all time for a few years would be better than going to a shit team where it's gonna be 3-4 years until you have a decent team anyway.

[bane]

I wonder how he feels now. Maybe that's why they never had a real backup qb. Now they're paying for it. I still think the guy's career is over anyways.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Curtis Painter. That team has bigger problems than Curtis Painter.

There's plenty wrong with Painter, but he's not much worse than most team's backups. Hes just not Peyton Manning. They do have much bigger problems than the QB position though. They have a lot of pretty good players at the glory positions, but both of their lines are horrendous and they've got big problems coming up with looming free agency for a few of their name guys.

[NeverSurrender]

Dipshit, find any number one overall pick who sat for three or four years without being given a chance to play and then you can tell me I'm wrong. I'm sure irsay would love that. He'd probably love a blow job from Sofia Vergara too, and that's about just as likely.

Years Played Pro Bowls
2010 Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma St. Louis Rams 1 0
2009 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia Detroit Lions - -
2008 Jake Long OT Michigan Miami Dolphins 1 1
2007 JaMarcus Russell QB LSU Oakland Raiders 2 0
2006 Mario Williams DE N. Carolina State Houston Texans 3 1
2005 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers 4 0
2004 Eli Manning QB Mississippi San Diego Chargers 5 1
2003 Carson Palmer QB Southern Cal. Cincinnati Bengals 6 2
2002 David Carr QB Fresno State Houston Texans 7 0
2001 Michael Vick QB Virginia Tech Atlanta Falcons 6 3
2000 Courtney Brown DE Penn State Cleveland Browns 7 0
1999 Tim Couch QB Kentucky Cleveland Browns 6 0
1998 Peyton Manning QB Tennessee Indianapolis Colts 11 9
1997 Orlando Pace OT Ohio State St. Louis Rams 12 7
1996 Keyshawn Johnson WR Southern Cal. New York Jets 11 4
1995 Ki-Jana Carter RB Penn State Cincinnati Bengals 8 0
1994 Dan Wilkinson DT Ohio State Cincinnati Bengals 13 0
1993 Drew Bledsoe QB Washington State New England Patriots 14 4
1992 Steve Emtman DT Washington Indianapolis Colts 8 0
1991 Russell Maryland DT Miami, (Fla.) Dallas Cowboys 10 1
1990 Jeff George QB Illinois Indianapolis Colts 13 0
1989 *Troy Aikman QB UCLA Dallas Cowboys 12 6
1988 Aundray Bruce LB Auburn Atlanta Falcons 11 0
1987 Vinny Testaverde QB Miami, (Fla.) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 21 2
1986 Bo Jackson RB Auburn Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 1
1985 Bruce Smith DE Virginia Tech Buffalo Bills 18 11
1984 Irving Fryar WR Nebraska New England Patriots 15 5
1983 *John Elway QB Stanford Baltimore Colts 16 10


Pick one of these who sat on the bench for four years. Nobody is letting an investenment like that sit for four years of a five year contract. That's just ridiculous. Barring injury all those guys played in their first couple of seasons.

Go back to talking about Poison.

[NeverSurrender]

I wonder how he feels now. Maybe that's why they never had a real backup qb. Now they're paying for it. I still think the guy's career is over anyways.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Curtis Painter. That team has bigger problems than Curtis Painter.

He might turn out to be fine, but he wasn't ready when he got the call.

[SkyDog112046]

I think Peyton would be cool with a guy drafted later, but Peyton's not as dumb as P13 and he knows no number 1 overall pick is going to sit on anybody's bench for 4 years without being given a chance. It ain't happening.

Wrong. Colts owner, Mr. Jim Irsay:

"Guys like that come along so rarely," Irsay said of Luck, considered by many a can't-miss NFL quarterback. "Even if that means that guy sits for three or four years, you'd certainly think about taking him.


"You see what Green Bay did with Favre and Rodgers and you'd like to be able to do the same thing."


So obviously, you are wrong. Jim Irsay is already saying they would consider taking luck and having him sit 3-4 years. It worked well with Rodgers and Favre. They were never the best of friends, but ultimately Rodgers did learn from Favre. Rodgers was not a #1 pick, but he was one of the top ranked QBs in the draft. Obviously I don't know how luck would feel about it, but I would think being drafted by one of the best organizations in the league and learning from the best of all time for a few years would be better than going to a shit team where it's gonna be 3-4 years until you have a decent team anyway.

Any QB who would be fine sitting on the bench for 3-4 years is someone who you don't want to draft. If they aren't competitive enough to want to start right away then you don't want them, and if they need a few years to develop they aren't going to be #1 overall. You may not start the guy in the first game or even first few games, but sometime during that first season they are going to take over and it will be their team going forward unless they turn out to be a bust.

The max a #1 overall drafted QB sits is 1 season, and that's only if the offensive line is a mess too and you don't want to get him killed before he gets going. And that following draft that top 5 pick is going to be used for a left tackle to protect the QB's blind side while using a 3rd or 4th round pick to fill in another spot on the line. You can sell that to fans. Anything more than that and it looks like you blew the pick.

[johnk5150]

Dipshit, find any number one overall pick who sat for three or four years without being given a chance to play and then you can tell me I'm wrong. I'm sure irsay would love that. He'd probably love a blow job from Sofia Vergara too, and that's about just as likely.

If you want to laugh your ass off, follow Irsay on Twitter. I'm pretty sure all he does all day is smoke pot and listen to Tom Petty.

[bane]

I wonder how he feels now. Maybe that's why they never had a real backup qb. Now they're paying for it. I still think the guy's career is over anyways.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Curtis Painter. That team has bigger problems than Curtis Painter.

He might turn out to be fine, but he wasn't ready when he got the call.

He'd never taken a single snap in an NFL game. I don't care how talented or how well prepared, nobody is going to come out "ready" when they've never played before.

[WTF]

There's plenty wrong with Painter, but he's not much worse than most team's backups. Hes just not Peyton Manning.

Kinda what I meant. Sure, Painter isn't perfect, but the guy NEVER has taken snaps in practice up until now. Considering that, I think the guy is gonna turn out alright.

And NeverSurrender, 15 of 27, 277 yards and 2 TDs isn't too shabby.

[NeverSurrender]

Painter isn't perfect, but the guy NEVER has taken snaps in practice up until now

That's what I meant. They never seemed to have a legit backup.

[SkyDog112046]

Painter isn't perfect, but the guy NEVER has taken snaps in practice up until now

That's what I meant. They never seemed to have a legit backup.

Because Manning refuses to let them practice. Even if they were good coming in they get rusty and lose their skills.

[HMJ]

Luck's going to the Dolphins.

[Tenacious_Dio]

2010 Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma St. Louis Rams 1 0
2009 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia Detroit Lions - -

Might as well add Cam Newton to that list.

[poizond13]

Painter isn't perfect, but the guy NEVER has taken snaps in practice up until now

That's what I meant. They never seemed to have a legit backup.

Because Manning refuses to let them practice. Even if they were good coming in they get rusty and lose their skills.

What kind of idiot are you? The backup does practice, they just don't take any snaps with the first team. It's not like they sit on the sideline the whole time and serve gatorade.

[poizond13]

I think Peyton would be cool with a guy drafted later, but Peyton's not as dumb as P13 and he knows no number 1 overall pick is going to sit on anybody's bench for 4 years without being given a chance. It ain't happening.

Wrong. Colts owner, Mr. Jim Irsay:

"Guys like that come along so rarely," Irsay said of Luck, considered by many a can't-miss NFL quarterback. "Even if that means that guy sits for three or four years, you'd certainly think about taking him.


"You see what Green Bay did with Favre and Rodgers and you'd like to be able to do the same thing."


So obviously, you are wrong. Jim Irsay is already saying they would consider taking luck and having him sit 3-4 years. It worked well with Rodgers and Favre. They were never the best of friends, but ultimately Rodgers did learn from Favre. Rodgers was not a #1 pick, but he was one of the top ranked QBs in the draft. Obviously I don't know how luck would feel about it, but I would think being drafted by one of the best organizations in the league and learning from the best of all time for a few years would be better than going to a shit team where it's gonna be 3-4 years until you have a decent team anyway.

Any QB who would be fine sitting on the bench for 3-4 years is someone who you don't want to draft. If they aren't competitive enough to want to start right away then you don't want them, and if they need a few years to develop they aren't going to be #1 overall. You may not start the guy in the first game or even first few games, but sometime during that first season they are going to take over and it will be their team going forward unless they turn out to be a bust.

The max a #1 overall drafted QB sits is 1 season, and that's only if the offensive line is a mess too and you don't want to get him killed before he gets going. And that following draft that top 5 pick is going to be used for a left tackle to protect the QB's blind side while using a 3rd or 4th round pick to fill in another spot on the line. You can sell that to fans. Anything more than that and it looks like you blew the pick.

It is a good strategy that has proven to be successful with the Aaron Rodgers situation. The fact that Luck would be a #1 pick doesn't change a thing. In fact, Luck's salary will probably be comparable to the contract Rodgers got coming out of college. Rodgers was also talked about being a potential #1 pick. You're an idiot if you don't think Rodgers wanted to play from day one. And obviously his relationship with Favre was not great. But he did sit behind him for years while learning from him and visualizing himself eventually taking the starting position. That worked well for GB and it could work well for us. #1 pick or #24 pick, it's completely irrelevant.

[poizond13]

Dipshit, find any number one overall pick who sat for three or four years without being given a chance to play and then you can tell me I'm wrong. I'm sure irsay would love that. He'd probably love a blow job from Sofia Vergara too, and that's about just as likely.

Years Played Pro Bowls
2010 Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma St. Louis Rams 1 0
2009 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia Detroit Lions - -
2008 Jake Long OT Michigan Miami Dolphins 1 1
2007 JaMarcus Russell QB LSU Oakland Raiders 2 0
2006 Mario Williams DE N. Carolina State Houston Texans 3 1
2005 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers 4 0
2004 Eli Manning QB Mississippi San Diego Chargers 5 1
2003 Carson Palmer QB Southern Cal. Cincinnati Bengals 6 2
2002 David Carr QB Fresno State Houston Texans 7 0
2001 Michael Vick QB Virginia Tech Atlanta Falcons 6 3
2000 Courtney Brown DE Penn State Cleveland Browns 7 0
1999 Tim Couch QB Kentucky Cleveland Browns 6 0
1998 Peyton Manning QB Tennessee Indianapolis Colts 11 9
1997 Orlando Pace OT Ohio State St. Louis Rams 12 7
1996 Keyshawn Johnson WR Southern Cal. New York Jets 11 4
1995 Ki-Jana Carter RB Penn State Cincinnati Bengals 8 0
1994 Dan Wilkinson DT Ohio State Cincinnati Bengals 13 0
1993 Drew Bledsoe QB Washington State New England Patriots 14 4
1992 Steve Emtman DT Washington Indianapolis Colts 8 0
1991 Russell Maryland DT Miami, (Fla.) Dallas Cowboys 10 1
1990 Jeff George QB Illinois Indianapolis Colts 13 0
1989 *Troy Aikman QB UCLA Dallas Cowboys 12 6
1988 Aundray Bruce LB Auburn Atlanta Falcons 11 0
1987 Vinny Testaverde QB Miami, (Fla.) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 21 2
1986 Bo Jackson RB Auburn Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 1
1985 Bruce Smith DE Virginia Tech Buffalo Bills 18 11
1984 Irving Fryar WR Nebraska New England Patriots 15 5
1983 *John Elway QB Stanford Baltimore Colts 16 10


Pick one of these who sat on the bench for four years. Nobody is letting an investenment like that sit for four years of a five year contract. That's just ridiculous. Barring injury all those guys played in their first couple of seasons.

Go back to talking about Poison.

First off, Mr. Irsay is the owner. If he wants to take Luck with the #1 pick, that's what we'll do. And if he wants him to sit behind Peyton for 3-4 years, that will happen too. IT'S HIS TEAM. I don't know why you're acting as if he needs permission from anyone to do so.

Second, your list of past #1 picks means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Reason being, if we should get the #1 pick, that would be a totally unprecedented and unique situation that no team has ever been put in. In a way, you could look at it as being very advantageous. We're a perennial 10-13 win team with Peyton. He goes down for one year and hypothetically that could get us the top draft spot if things keep going the way they are. But with Peyton coming back next year, we're guaranteed 3-4 more years of success. So we could have the opportunity to draft a top rated franchise QB even though we'd have a very solid playoff team with Peyton Manning healthy. Name me one team that's ever been in a similar situation and then I'll take a look at your list. I'll save you the time: you won't find one.

The reason teams normally get the #1 pick is because they have a bad team. And if they select a QB, that means they don't already have a franchise QB. That's why they obviously would start their #1 pick right off the bat or after one year. That's not the situation we are in. It's completely different and the normal rules wouldn't apply.

[LetUsPrey]

^ Good point P13. I was actually thinking about the possibility of the Colts getting Luck today, and it struck me as very similar to the Rodgers/Favre situation.

[poizond13]

Another thing to consider, even if Manning had a small contract and money wasn't an issue, is that Manning is not the type to help groom another QB. Part of the problem Indy has faced in getting a quality backup is that Manning won't allow them to get any reps. If you had the 1st pick and thought that Luck was the answer for the next 12-15 years, why would you bring him in to be a subordinate to someone who would stunt his growth?

If Indy gets Luck it makes more sense for them to send Manning packing and build an offense suited to Luck's abilities. They would probably need a new Offensive Coordinator as well.

Peyton will not be released, ever. He'll finish his career as a Colt. When he returns, it will be as a Colt. Colts management have already stated that numerous times. If you believe anything other than that, you're an idiot. The only circumstance that he wouldn't return is if his health does not allow it, and god willing that will not be the case.