NFL 2011 Thread

[WTF]

Yes. It was better football. Compare the best baseball teams and the best of every other league. Now it's a bunch of 10-6 crap. I mean Seattle won the division at 7-9 last year. It's mediocre crap. And the refs add to it. There's some myth that higher score = better games.

Contraction needs to happen too...in all 4 sports.

And the Seahawks would win it again this year with the same record if it wasn't for SF being 12-3 right now. YOu have the Pats at 12-3, Ravens and Steelers at 11-4, Texans and Lions at 10-5, Packers 14-1 and the Saints and 49ers at 12-3. And then the rest.

What do you mean about take the best in baseball and compare it to the other leagues? Are you going by who can spend the most? The team with the 11th highest payroll in MBL won the World Series. I'm not sure I get your comparison.

[Tymaster]

I have to disagree with Tommy and go with Skydog. I much prefer the competitiveness of parity. I don't know how you can say it was "better" football when you knew who was going to win the super bowl in September.
And you completely lost me on the baseball thing.

[Tommy]

Yes. It was better football. Compare the best baseball teams and the best of every other league. Now it's a bunch of 10-6 crap. I mean Seattle won the division at 7-9 last year. It's mediocre crap. And the refs add to it. There's some myth that higher score = better games.

Contraction needs to happen too...in all 4 sports.

And the Seahawks would win it again this year with the same record if it wasn't for SF being 12-3 right now. YOu have the Pats at 12-3, Ravens and Steelers at 11-4, Texans and Lions at 10-5, Packers 14-1 and the Saints and 49ers at 12-3. And then the rest.

What do you mean about take the best in baseball and compare it to the other leagues? Are you going by who can spend the most? The team with the 11th highest payroll in MBL won the World Series. I'm not sure I get your comparison.

What I mean is that it's one-hit wonders nearly every year. People drop "dynasty" on NE. Eh, not really. Fantastic run, for sure. But to make these guys the Montana/Young 49ers is ridiculous. Those Cowboys teams would eat them for breakfast too.

I also don't think the Lions, Raven, or Steelers are that good this year.

My baseball reference was basically that year in and year out you have a handful of the same teams who are competitive. I like that. When an NFL team goes 2-14, 5-11, 12-4, and 8-8 over a span...I think that is mediocrity. The 12-4 year is inflated. Look at the Bengals. They were awful, then every bit of AVERAGE under Palmer. But now because of a few decent seasons Carson Palmer is talked about like some really good QB. He's not.

Teams have flare-ups and it's "well, they're finally getting it together". Yeah, until next year when they can't afford any FA's and have traded their picks away.

And I also have a huge problem with the bigger teams not being allowed to use their money to improve players on the field.

"Revenue sharing" is nonsense in all sports.

Why do the Yankees have to support the Pirates and Royals?

Why does the Original 6 support half the league?

Should Microsoft have to give money to me if I start a software company?

It's sports welfare and, IMHO, the product suffers greatly.

[SkyDog112046]

Yes. It was better football. Compare the best baseball teams and the best of every other league. Now it's a bunch of 10-6 crap. I mean Seattle won the division at 7-9 last year. It's mediocre crap. And the refs add to it. There's some myth that higher score = better games.

Contraction needs to happen too...in all 4 sports.

How was it better football when four 13+ win teams spent the bulk of the season steamrolling teams with 5 or 6 wins? Maybe the dominant teams of those days were stronger than today but the weaker teams were worse and week in and week out there were fewer meaningful & competitive games on Sundays.

Look at this weekend. 17 teams are still in the playoff hunt and 3/4 of the games have playoff implications. Even the teams in the AFC that have locked up spots are not guaranteed to advance beyond 1 game so there are fans in 10 AFC cities that have some hope of getting to the Superbowl as of today.

Now contrast that with MLB where the fucking Yankees can buy a playoff spot every year and you can pick 10 teams in spring training that the 8 playoff teams will come from. Meaning fans in 20 cities shouldn't even bother watching after opening day. And as for officiating, at least the NFL maintains control over their refs and has instant replay to get things right unlike MLB that lets the umps run the show and make zero effort to get the calls correct. NFL >>> MLB

[WTF]

I do see what Tommy means about teams sucking one year, great the next, then suck the next.

[Tommy]

Yes. It was better football. Compare the best baseball teams and the best of every other league. Now it's a bunch of 10-6 crap. I mean Seattle won the division at 7-9 last year. It's mediocre crap. And the refs add to it. There's some myth that higher score = better games.

Contraction needs to happen too...in all 4 sports.

How was it better football when four 13+ win teams spent the bulk of the season steamrolling teams with 5 or 6 wins? Maybe the dominant teams of those days were stronger than today but the weaker teams were worse and week in and week out there were fewer meaningful & competitive games on Sundays.

Look at this weekend. 17 teams are still in the playoff hunt and 3/4 of the games have playoff implications. Even the teams in the AFC that have locked up spots are not guaranteed to advance beyond 1 game so there are fans in 10 AFC cities that have some hope of getting to the Superbowl as of today.

Now contrast that with MLB where the fucking Yankees can buy a playoff spot every year and you can pick 10 teams in spring training that the 8 playoff teams will come from. Meaning fans in 20 cities shouldn't even bother watching after opening day. And as for officiating, at least the NFL maintains control over their refs and has instant replay to get things right unlike MLB that lets the umps run the show and make zero effort to get the calls correct. NFL >>> MLB

MLB has the 2nd most corrupt officiating (sorry NBA). Still, NFL refs aren't very good. A dirty look means pass interference in the NFL. Bad roughing the QB calls are affecting outcomes.

What you are essentially saying is you want a league where everyone finishes 9-7, 8-8, or 7-9.


This is all great for ratings. But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. It's not better football. Or maybe I should word it as "it's not the best possible product being offered".

[Tenacious_Dio]

So, the Colts-Jags game. Who's gonna tank harder? The Colts, so they can get Andrew Luck? Or the Jags, so they can keep Luck out of their division, and get a better draft pick?

[SkyDog112046]

What I mean is that it's one-hit wonders nearly every year. People drop "dynasty" on NE. Eh, not really. Fantastic run, for sure. But to make these guys the Montana/Young 49ers is ridiculous. Those Cowboys teams would eat them for breakfast too.

I also don't think the Lions, Raven, or Steelers are that good this year.

My baseball reference was basically that year in and year out you have a handful of the same teams who are competitive. I like that. When an NFL team goes 2-14, 5-11, 12-4, and 8-8 over a span...I think that is mediocrity. The 12-4 year is inflated. Look at the Bengals. They were awful, then every bit of AVERAGE under Palmer. But now because of a few decent seasons Carson Palmer is talked about like some really good QB. He's not.

Teams have flare-ups and it's "well, they're finally getting it together". Yeah, until next year when they can't afford any FA's and have traded their picks away.

And I also have a huge problem with the bigger teams not being allowed to use their money to improve players on the field.

"Revenue sharing" is nonsense in all sports.

Why do the Yankees have to support the Pirates and Royals?

Why does the Original 6 support half the league?

Should Microsoft have to give money to me if I start a software company?

It's sports welfare and, IMHO, the product suffers greatly.

Spoken like a true Yankees fan. Sports obviously suck if NY teams can't buy all the championships, right?

Revenue sharing is the right way to go for any sport. The reason the big market teams need to support the small market teams is so they can have competitive opponents to play against. It makes for more interest in more cities which translates into more dollars for everyone.

You don't consider a team that went to 5 conference championships and 4 Superbowls in 10 seasons a dynasty? It's impressive as hell to be that consistent over that time span while having to deal with a salary cap. As for quality, the '03 & '04 Patriots teams would have been competitive against the 49'ers and Cowboys teams you referenced. Don't forget that defense was loaded with excellent players such as Seymour, McGinnest, Bruschi, Law, Harrison, Johnson, Vrabel, Warren, Phifer, Colvin, Milloy & Samuel in addition to having a HOF worthy QB & kicker. That was a strong team all around. The 2010 & 11 editions are not even worth being mentioned with them.

[demolition23]

My baseball reference was basically that year in and year out you have a handful of the same teams who are competitive. I like that.

So would I, IF it were based solely on great management and canny drafting and trading... But it isn't. It's based hugely on the lack of any salary floor/cap to ensure the league is anything like competitive. in any given year you basically know 2/3 of MLB teams have no play-off chance. Every year there's maybe one that surprises a little but ultimately it's far, far too predictable. The play-offs themselves are great, but the regular season has become a snooze IMO.

NFL is far closer to the right balance competition-wise.

[Crazy Levi]

I don't understand what all the bitching about the NFL and "parity" is.

You want fucking dynasties? You are looking at them RIGHT NOW.

Steelers, Ravens, Patriots

Saints, Packers, Eagles

These teams are dominating right now and doing way better than "10-6."

The NFL has it right. MLB is a joke. Nobody gives a shit when it's the same few teams every year that are in it.

[Tommy]

What I mean is that it's one-hit wonders nearly every year. People drop "dynasty" on NE. Eh, not really. Fantastic run, for sure. But to make these guys the Montana/Young 49ers is ridiculous. Those Cowboys teams would eat them for breakfast too.

I also don't think the Lions, Raven, or Steelers are that good this year.

My baseball reference was basically that year in and year out you have a handful of the same teams who are competitive. I like that. When an NFL team goes 2-14, 5-11, 12-4, and 8-8 over a span...I think that is mediocrity. The 12-4 year is inflated. Look at the Bengals. They were awful, then every bit of AVERAGE under Palmer. But now because of a few decent seasons Carson Palmer is talked about like some really good QB. He's not.

Teams have flare-ups and it's "well, they're finally getting it together". Yeah, until next year when they can't afford any FA's and have traded their picks away.

And I also have a huge problem with the bigger teams not being allowed to use their money to improve players on the field.

"Revenue sharing" is nonsense in all sports.

Why do the Yankees have to support the Pirates and Royals?

Why does the Original 6 support half the league?

Should Microsoft have to give money to me if I start a software company?

It's sports welfare and, IMHO, the product suffers greatly.

Spoken like a true Yankees fan. Sports obviously suck if NY teams can't buy all the championships, right?

Revenue sharing is the right way to go for any sport. The reason the big market teams need to support the small market teams is so they can have competitive opponents to play against. It makes for more interest in more cities which translates into more dollars for everyone.

You don't consider a team that went to 5 conference championships and 4 Superbowls in 10 seasons a dynasty? It's impressive as hell to be that consistent over that time span while having to deal with a salary cap. As for quality, the '03 & '04 Patriots teams would have been competitive against the 49'ers and Cowboys teams you referenced. Don't forget that defense was loaded with excellent players such as Seymour, McGinnest, Bruschi, Law, Harrison, Johnson, Vrabel, Warren, Phifer, Colvin, Milloy & Samuel in addition to having a HOF worthy QB & kicker. That was a strong team all around. The 2010 & 11 editions are not even worth being mentioned with them.

Lemme guess, voting Dem this year?


Nobody buys championships, you still have to play the games. NY Giants reminded you guys of that a few years back. I have more of a problem with teams who don't try to improve themselves.


I work in the bar/restaurant industry. Does Mario Batali owe my bar rent money?

Justify the Yankees paying for Pittsburgh's salary and Pitt never spending another dime on the team. I'll wait.

[SkyDog112046]

MLB has the 2nd most corrupt officiating (sorry NBA). Still, NFL refs aren't very good. A dirty look means pass interference in the NFL. Bad roughing the QB calls are affecting outcomes.

What you are essentially saying is you want a league where everyone finishes 9-7, 8-8, or 7-9.


This is all great for ratings. But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. It's not better football. Or maybe I should word it as "it's not the best possible product being offered".

No, what I am saying is that I would like the majority of the teams between 5 and 11 wins and where at least half the teams are sill in the playoff mix with 2 games left in the season.

How is it the best possible product if 5 or 6 teams dominate the league? Weekly blowouts and mostly meaningless games make for a good product? Are 52-17 Superbowls more entertaining than ones that are decided after the 2 minute warning?

I bet you wouldn't feel the same way if there wasn't any revenue sharing and New England, Pittsburgh and Dallas were able to grab up all the good free agents and outbid for draft picks that teams couldn't afford as it is in baseball.

[Tommy]

\

You want fucking dynasties? You are looking at them RIGHT NOW.

Steelers, Ravens, Patriots

Saints, Packers, Eagles

These teams are dominating right now and doing way better than "10-6."

Those are dynasties? Raven won in '00, Philly never. Come on.

[Tommy]

MLB has the 2nd most corrupt officiating (sorry NBA). Still, NFL refs aren't very good. A dirty look means pass interference in the NFL. Bad roughing the QB calls are affecting outcomes.

What you are essentially saying is you want a league where everyone finishes 9-7, 8-8, or 7-9.


This is all great for ratings. But don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. It's not better football. Or maybe I should word it as "it's not the best possible product being offered".

No, what I am saying is that I would like the majority of the teams between 5 and 11 wins and where at least half the teams are sill in the playoff mix with 2 games left in the season.

How is it the best possible product if 5 or 6 teams dominate the league? Weekly blowouts and mostly meaningless games make for a good product? Are 52-17 Superbowls more entertaining than ones that are decided after the 2 minute warning?

I bet you wouldn't feel the same way if there wasn't any revenue sharing and New England, Pittsburgh and Dallas were able to grab up all the good free agents and outbid for draft picks that teams couldn't afford as it is in baseball.

You asked if I prefer that to the system now. I said yes. Now, eliminate the cap AND some teams and we're good.

I had already said all the leagues need to contract. Less teams means better talent out there. Any hockey fan can tell you that.

[SkyDog112046]

Nobody buys championships, you still have to play the games. NY Giants reminded you guys of that a few years back. I have more of a problem with teams who don't try to improve themselves.


I work in the bar/restaurant industry. Does Mario Batali owe my bar rent money?

Justify the Yankees paying for Pittsburgh's salary and Pitt never spending another dime on the team. I'll wait.

Which is why there needs to be a salary cap with a floor like in the other sports. The money should be spent on the field.

Teams can certainly buy a playoff spot. Any halfway decent organization that has the ability to outspend the league average by a 2.5-1 margin and at the same time can outbid for draft picks they are unable to sign is going to be in the playoffs every year. At least that can't happen in football. Teams have smaller windows and have to earn their way into the playoffs.

[Tommy]

Nobody buys championships, you still have to play the games. NY Giants reminded you guys of that a few years back. I have more of a problem with teams who don't try to improve themselves.


I work in the bar/restaurant industry. Does Mario Batali owe my bar rent money?

Justify the Yankees paying for Pittsburgh's salary and Pitt never spending another dime on the team. I'll wait.

Which is why there needs to be a salary cap with a floor like in the other sports. The money should be spent on the field.

Teams can certainly buy a playoff spot. Any halfway decent organization that has the ability to outspend the league average by a 2.5-1 margin and at the same time can outbid for draft picks they are unable to sign is going to be in the playoffs every year. At least that can't happen in football. Teams have smaller windows and have to earn their way into the playoffs.

Are you telling me this year's NFC East is good football?

[Machado]

NFC east winner will play either
Detroit or Atlanta in 1st round of playoffs(at home).

[Crazy Levi]

\

You want fucking dynasties? You are looking at them RIGHT NOW.

Steelers, Ravens, Patriots

Saints, Packers, Eagles

These teams are dominating right now and doing way better than "10-6."

Those are dynasties? Raven won in '00, Philly never. Come on.

These teams are in it EVERY YEAR. They are strong organizations that always contend.

I don't see the problem with the NFL's parity. As a Yankees fan, you just think there should be 2 or 3 teams that are always a lock to win the division.

It's boring for anybody who isn't a Yankees or Red Sox fan. Really boring.

[Machado]

\

You want fucking dynasties? You are looking at them RIGHT NOW.

Steelers, Ravens, Patriots

Saints, Packers, Eagles

These teams are dominating right now and doing way better than "10-6."

Those are dynasties? Raven won in '00, Philly never. Come on.

These teams are in it EVERY YEAR. They are strong organizations that always contend.

I don't see the problem with the NFL's parity. As a Yankees fan, you just think there should be 2 or 3 teams that are always a lock to win the division.

It's boring for anybody who isn't a Yankees or Red Sox fan. Really boring.

Contender is one thing, but a Dynasty is a totally different animal.

1
: a succession of rulers of the same line of descent
2
: a powerful group or family that maintains its position for a considerable time

[Crazy Levi]

Pats are a legitimate dynasty.

The Pats and Saints are one super bowl win away from being one too.

[Tommy]

Pats are a legitimate dynasty.

The Pats and Saints are one super bowl win away from being one too.

After looking, yes, I admit it: Pats were a dynasty.



Yankees have nothing to do with anything. I simply don't support sports welfare. Boston spends and competes, St. Louis, etc...


The Mets spend and suck, that's on management. Hard to say they weren't trying though.

[Tymaster]

Pats are a legitimate dynasty.

The Pats and Saints are one super bowl win away from being one too.

After looking, yes, I admit it: Pats were a dynasty.



Yankees have nothing to do with anything. I simply don't support sports welfare. Boston spends and competes, St. Louis, etc...


The Mets spend and suck, that's on management. Hard to say they weren't trying though.

You wouldn't consider it sports welfare if you lived in a small market city like Green Bay. It's not sports welfare, it's pro sports version of the electoral college.

[Tommy]

Pats are a legitimate dynasty.

The Pats and Saints are one super bowl win away from being one too.

After looking, yes, I admit it: Pats were a dynasty.



Yankees have nothing to do with anything. I simply don't support sports welfare. Boston spends and competes, St. Louis, etc...


The Mets spend and suck, that's on management. Hard to say they weren't trying though.

You wouldn't consider it sports welfare if you lived in a small market city like Green Bay. It's not sports welfare, it's pro sports version of the electoral college.

Jacksonville doesn't support their team. Oakland has local blackouts. This is ok with you?

[HMJ]

That's really up to the fans. The Saints are fucking local heroes in New Orleans, even before the last few seasons. They care and they show it and it means something to people, perhaps a lot more if I want to be corny.

If Cincinnati is having trouble with blackouts - well then fuck their fans. Love it or lose it.

[MickeyG]

There's some god awful teams in the NFL. Are we sure there's parity?

[LAglamrocker]

it not all the fans
cheap seat to NFL game are 75$ xs 4 for family = parking =around 400$


i got first row on top section for Broncos vs Chargers 100$

[SkyDog112046]

You asked if I prefer that to the system now. I said yes. Now, eliminate the cap AND some teams and we're good.

I had already said all the leagues need to contract. Less teams means better talent out there. Any hockey fan can tell you that.

Ok, so we'll say that the NFL has the MLB system and set the wayback machine for 2009 and then go forward. Julius Peppers, Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, and Nnamdi Asomugha ended up signing with New England to help shore up the defense. Ndamukong Suh refused to sign with Detroit and became a free agent and subsequently went to NE as well. So that defense is Suh and Peppers flanking Wilfork with Lewis, Suggs, Mayo & Spikes behind them. McCourty doesn't look too bad as the #2 CB playing across from Asomugha not that it really matters much anyway because the front 7 have combined for 50+ sacks and opposing QBs rarely have time to make their first read let alone go deep.

Chris Johnson left TN and is now taking handoffs from Brady who in addition to his 2 TEs and Welker now has Calvin Johnson as a deep threat. Seems he forced his way out of town and was traded to NE for Tate & Merriweather. Oh yeah, say hello to the Patriots new return man, DeSean Jackson. Philly wouldn't give him a new contract and he started sulking so Reid flipped him to his buddy Belichick for a 2nd rounder and NE gave him $10M a year to be the return specialist and 3rd receiver.

Does that not sound ridiculous to you? That would bore the hell out of me even if it was my team that was stacked like that. That's pretty much how MLB works. The NFL system is 1000 times better than that.

[SkyDog112046]

There's some god awful teams in the NFL. Are we sure there's parity?

There are some bad teams but a lot of the time it's just teams cycling through the rebuilding process and they'll be competitive in a few years. They have 4 or 5 years as a competitive team and then they go through a 3-4 year rebuild. It's generally not a permanent situation like in baseball.

[Luminiferous]

Some hilarious replays from the NFL 2011 Thread...

Make no mistake, WE WILL BE BACK!!! And guess what? The Superbowl is in INDIANAPOLIS next year! The road BACK begins NOW!

Excellent, now the COLTS road BACK to the Superbowl at LUCAS OIL STADIUM can begin!

If we play our game, we can beat any AFC team on ANY field in ANY weather. We will do what we do and when it's all said and done idiots like yourself will have nothing to do but kiss the ring.

The road back to lucas oil stadium in February begins.

Will they be playing in the Superbowl that's taking place in their own stadium as Jerry Jones predicted??

No they didn't.. And the Colts will not be playing in the Superbowl that's taking place in their own stadium like Greg Miracles-Manning predicted... Or actually pretty much declared IRREFUTABLE FACT!

[Tenacious_Dio]

The Saints are fucking local heroes in New Orleans, even before the last few seasons. They care and they show it and it means something to people, perhaps a lot more if I want to be corny.

That's all well and good, but New Orleans had their share of blackouts before Drew Brees showed up.