NFL 2011 Thread

[poizond13]

Congrats to Dwight Freeney on his 7th Pro Bowl selection! What a beast!

[Tommy]

You asked if I prefer that to the system now. I said yes. Now, eliminate the cap AND some teams and we're good.

I had already said all the leagues need to contract. Less teams means better talent out there. Any hockey fan can tell you that.

Ok, so we'll say that the NFL has the MLB system and set the wayback machine for 2009 and then go forward. Julius Peppers, Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, and Nnamdi Asomugha ended up signing with New England to help shore up the defense. Ndamukong Suh refused to sign with Detroit and became a free agent and subsequently went to NE as well. So that defense is Suh and Peppers flanking Wilfork with Lewis, Suggs, Mayo & Spikes behind them. McCourty doesn't look too bad as the #2 CB playing across from Asomugha not that it really matters much anyway because the front 7 have combined for 50+ sacks and opposing QBs rarely have time to make their first read let alone go deep.

Chris Johnson left TN and is now taking handoffs from Brady who in addition to his 2 TEs and Welker now has Calvin Johnson as a deep threat. Seems he forced his way out of town and was traded to NE for Tate & Merriweather. Oh yeah, say hello to the Patriots new return man, DeSean Jackson. Philly wouldn't give him a new contract and he started sulking so Reid flipped him to his buddy Belichick for a 2nd rounder and NE gave him $10M a year to be the return specialist and 3rd receiver.

Does that not sound ridiculous to you? That would bore the hell out of me even if it was my team that was stacked like that. That's pretty much how MLB works. The NFL system is 1000 times better than that.

All-star teams have never worked, so your point is moot.

[SkyDog112046]

All-star teams have never worked, so your point is moot.

All-star teams may not necessarily win a lot of championships but they certainly win a lot of games against teams with less than half their payroll and are pretty much guaranteed a playoff spot every year.

What do you think a roster with A-Rod, Sabbathia, Texiera, Granderson, Jeter, and Rivera is if it's not an All-star team? Sure I exaggerated a bit in my NFL example but you could pick any 4 of the free agents/forced trades I listed and add one unsigned draft pick another team couldn't afford and it would be the exact equivalent of what goes on in the Bronx. And it would be bad for the sport.

[Tommy]

All-star teams have never worked, so your point is moot.

All-star teams may not necessarily win a lot of championships but they certainly win a lot of games against teams with less than half their payroll and are pretty much guaranteed a playoff spot every year.

What do you think a roster with A-Rod, Sabbathia, Texiera, Granderson, Jeter, and Rivera is if it's not an All-star team? Sure I exaggerated a bit in my NFL example but you could pick any 4 of the free agents/forced trades I listed and add one unsigned draft pick another team couldn't afford and it would be the exact equivalent of what goes on in the Bronx. And it would be bad for the sport.

'09 was a rare occurrence. As a Yankee fan I hate that shit. Did it with the Rangers for years too.


You're totally missing my point. I don't hate the teams that ya know, TRY TO FUCKING WIN GAMES. I hate the teams that have owners who are on sports welfare.

[bane]

You seem to be advocating a system in the NFL that would promote the same thing as MLB. The kind of system that creates the KCs and the Pitts of the league. There are no welfare teams in the NFL, just as there are no Yankees in the NFL. It's a level playing field.

[Crazy Levi]

You seem to be advocating a system in the NFL that would promote the same thing as MLB. The kind of system that creates the KCs and the Pitts of the league. There are no welfare teams in the NFL, just as there are no Yankees in the NFL. It's a level playing field.

Basically, Tommy doesn't give a shit.

He's a right wing Yankees fan. So, he's decided he likes a system where his team can easily buy a playoff spot year after year, AND we get the added bonus of him throwing the whole "sports welfare" thing into the mix, as if creating an MLB with a level playing field is somehow analagous to paying some black mom in Jersey City to sit at home and watch Oprah.

Only a Yankees fan thinks that somehow this makes for good baseball. MLB is a joke.

The NFL has it right, which is why football is more popular than baseball. Well, that and the fact that it's not like watching paint dry.

[Tommy]

You seem to be advocating a system in the NFL that would promote the same thing as MLB. The kind of system that creates the KCs and the Pitts of the league. There are no welfare teams in the NFL, just as there are no Yankees in the NFL. It's a level playing field.

He's a right wing Yankees fan. So, he's decided he likes a system where his team can easily buy a playoff spot year after year, AND we get the added bonus of him throwing the whole "sports welfare" thing into the mix, as if creating an MLB with a level playing field is somehow analagous to paying some black mom in Jersey City to sit at home and watch Oprah.

Levi gets it.

[Tommy]

Oh, BTW, still waiting for someone to justify the Pittsburgh Pirates to me.

[Tymaster]

Oh, BTW, still waiting for someone to justify the Pittsburgh Pirates to me.

That's exactly what we don't want in the NFL. Parity and revenue sharing are good things. Unless you're Jerry Jones. Who hasn't won squat since Aikman/Smith/Irvin's glory days anyway.

[Tommy]

Oh, BTW, still waiting for someone to justify the Pittsburgh Pirates to me.

That's exactly what we don't want in the NFL. Parity and revenue sharing are good things. Unless you're Jerry Jones. Who hasn't won squat since Aikman/Smith/Irvin's glory days anyway.

Do you honestly think the Jags are putting in even close to a fair share?

[SkyDog112046]

Oh, BTW, still waiting for someone to justify the Pittsburgh Pirates to me.

That's exactly what we don't want in the NFL. Parity and revenue sharing are good things. Unless you're Jerry Jones. Who hasn't won squat since Aikman/Smith/Irvin's glory days anyway.

Do you honestly think the Jags are putting in even close to a fair share?

The Jags are in the wrong market and have a bad stadium situation. But they are still an opponent for other teams 16 times a year and need to field a competitive team which they have for the most part since their creation. It has nothing to do with bad owners not trying to win or not spending money. If Jacksonville can't support the team the franchise will move to somewhere that can. If Los Angeles can ever figure out how to get a stadium built they'll be the LA Jaguars as soon as the stadium breaks ground.

[Tommy]

The Jags are in the wrong market and have a bad stadium situation. But they are still an opponent for other teams 16 times a year and need to field a competitive team which they have for the most part since their creation. It has nothing to do with bad owners not trying to win or not spending money. If Jacksonville can't support the team the franchise will move to somewhere that can. If Los Angeles can ever figure out how to get a stadium built they'll be the LA Jaguars as soon as the stadium breaks ground.

Wanna answer my question Barak? Jesus Christ.

[SkyDog112046]

The Jags are in the wrong market and have a bad stadium situation. But they are still an opponent for other teams 16 times a year and need to field a competitive team which they have for the most part since their creation. It has nothing to do with bad owners not trying to win or not spending money. If Jacksonville can't support the team the franchise will move to somewhere that can. If Los Angeles can ever figure out how to get a stadium built they'll be the LA Jaguars as soon as the stadium breaks ground.

Wanna answer my question Barak? Jesus Christ.

I did answer it. Jax has appeared in 11 playoff games in 15 years. They have a record of 137-131 since their inception, and that includes their expansion years. They spend money on players with an average payroll over the past 3 seasons that is more than Dallas, NE, Philly, Indy and Wash. The owners are not pocketing revenue sharing money while putting forth a substandard product.

And since the bulk of revenue in the NFL comes from the TV contract, they are certainly putting forth 1/32 of that number by fielding competitive teams year in and year out. No, they are not contributing the same stadium revenues as teams with new stadiums in larger markets that have corporate suites, but in no way are they the equivalent of the Royals or Pirates who grab luxury money and pocket it while fielding teams that are essentially minor league squads.

[johnk5150]

There's a reason he cheated, honey.

[Crazy Levi]

The Jags are in the wrong market and have a bad stadium situation. But they are still an opponent for other teams 16 times a year and need to field a competitive team which they have for the most part since their creation. It has nothing to do with bad owners not trying to win or not spending money. If Jacksonville can't support the team the franchise will move to somewhere that can. If Los Angeles can ever figure out how to get a stadium built they'll be the LA Jaguars as soon as the stadium breaks ground.

Wanna answer my question Barak? Jesus Christ.

Can you PLEASE drop this bit? Jesus Christ.

It's ridiculous. You seriously think that anybody who likes the way the NFL is compared to MLB is "Barak?"

I don't know who Barak is (what is it with right-wingers not being able to spell the President's name?) but for such an open-minded, non-partisan Republican you sure seem to want to turn this in to a political debate.

[Artemis2085]

I don't know who Barak is (what is it with right-wingers not being able to spell the President's name?) but for such an open-minded, non-partisan Republican you sure seem to want to turn this in to a political debate.

[MickeyG]

There's some god awful teams in the NFL. Are we sure there's parity?

There are some bad teams but a lot of the time it's just teams cycling through the rebuilding process and they'll be competitive in a few years. They have 4 or 5 years as a competitive team and then they go through a 3-4 year rebuild. It's generally not a permanent situation like in baseball.

Meh, not sure it's as cyclic as you say it is.

That said, I'm not against revenue sharing etc., I think it's a good thing. I know it's impossible, but it's as if there needs to be a "Front Office" sharing of some sorts. It seems the difference between a franchise like the Pats who are perennial contenders or the Dolphins who have one good year in 10 is in the management structure, and thus coaching and the players they select on the field. Shitty management picks shitty players, etc., etc.

[bane]

The Jags are in the wrong market and have a bad stadium situation. But they are still an opponent for other teams 16 times a year and need to field a competitive team which they have for the most part since their creation. It has nothing to do with bad owners not trying to win or not spending money. If Jacksonville can't support the team the franchise will move to somewhere that can. If Los Angeles can ever figure out how to get a stadium built they'll be the LA Jaguars as soon as the stadium breaks ground.

Wanna answer my question Barak? Jesus Christ.

Can you PLEASE drop this bit? Jesus Christ.

It's ridiculous. You seriously think that anybody who likes the way the NFL is compared to MLB is "Barak?"

I don't know who Barak is (what is it with right-wingers not being able to spell the President's name?) but for such an open-minded, non-partisan Republican you sure seem to want to turn this in to a political debate.

This whole bit is fucking stupid. NFL league structure has no place in some kind of socialism vs free enterprise argument. Hopefully Tommy is just trolling and he's not this much of an idiot.

[Tommy]

Can you PLEASE drop this bit? Jesus Christ.

It's ridiculous. You seriously think that anybody who likes the way the NFL is compared to MLB is "Barak?"

I don't know who Barak is (what is it with right-wingers not being able to spell the President's name?) but for such an open-minded, non-partisan Republican you sure seem to want to turn this in to a political debate.

It's not a "bit".

It's teams not pulling their weight in all of sports. FFS dude, YOUR REDSKINS are one of the teams keeping other teams alive. It should bother you.

The Skins aren't allowed to improve their product on the field after a certain point even though they have the assets. Sorry, can't agree with that.

Luxury tax is the "fairest" way I suppose. At the same time if you can't keep up with other teams in your leagues maybe owning a sports franchise isn't right for you. This is how the real world work BTW.

[bane]

You realize that the NFL is a single organization and that it's teams are members of the whole, right? You're arguing for Chevrolet to do their best to put GM out of business.

[Crazy Levi]

Can you PLEASE drop this bit? Jesus Christ.

It's ridiculous. You seriously think that anybody who likes the way the NFL is compared to MLB is "Barak?"

I don't know who Barak is (what is it with right-wingers not being able to spell the President's name?) but for such an open-minded, non-partisan Republican you sure seem to want to turn this in to a political debate.

It's not a "bit".

It's teams not pulling their weight in all of sports. FFS dude, YOUR REDSKINS are one of the teams keeping other teams alive. It should bother you.

The Skins aren't allowed to improve their product on the field after a certain point even though they have the assets. Sorry, can't agree with that.

Congrats on making it through an entire post on this matter without accusing anybody of being a socialist.

And no, it doesn't bother me at all. The Redskins suck because of terrible management over the past 12 years, not because they don't have a ridiculously unfair advantage over all of the other teams. They aren't allowed to "improve their product" because of Dan Snyder, not because of revenue sharing.

Dallas, Pittsburgh, and New England have all managed to have dynasties during the salary cap era. It's a dream of mine that one day the Redskins will be able to do this too.

I don't see why you care so much. The Giants and Jets are both playoff contenders every year.

People in this thread have provided you with very concrete reasons why a strong league benefits everybody, and the NFL is living proof that it WORKS. EVERYBODY is making cash hand over fist in the NFL, and TV ratings are through the roof.

I fail to see the problem here.

[Tommy]

You realize that the NFL is a single organization and that it's teams are members of the whole, right? You're arguing for Chevrolet to do their best to put GM out of business.

Yes.


And my whole point was that there are too many teams and the cap keeps teams at average.

Everyone hooting and hollering about the playoff implications this week are ridiculous. The fact that this is happening spells out how most of the league can't lock up a playoff spot until the last day of the season.

In hockey and B-ball we call those teams 8th/9th seeds.

[Crazy Levi]

You realize that the NFL is a single organization and that it's teams are members of the whole, right? You're arguing for Chevrolet to do their best to put GM out of business.

COMMUNIST MUSLIM!

[Tenacious_Dio]

Everyone hooting and hollering about the playoff implications this week are ridiculous. The fact that this is happening spells out how most of the league can't lock up a playoff spot until the last day of the season.

In hockey and B-ball we call those teams 8th/9th seeds.

And in baseball we call them the 2011 World Series champions.

[Crazy Levi]

You realize that the NFL is a single organization and that it's teams are members of the whole, right? You're arguing for Chevrolet to do their best to put GM out of business.

Yes.


And my whole point was that there are too many teams and the cap keeps teams at average.

Everyone hooting and hollering about the playoff implications this week are ridiculous. The fact that this is happening spells out how most of the league can't lock up a playoff spot until the last day of the season.

In hockey and B-ball we call those teams 8th/9th seeds.

Now you are acting borderline retarded. That's my go to, "retard." It's like your "Obama."

There are SIXTEEN fucking games in an NFL season. It doesn't make sense to you that maybe, just maybe, that has something to do with playoff seeds getting locked up so late? It's a little different than playing 80 or 160 games.

Again, look around you. Talk to some NFL fans. Most people love the current NFL. Everybody makes money, the fans are happy.

The only person complaining is you. Because you, like, want to see the Redskins and Dallas in the NFC Championship game every year. Or something.

What are you bitching about again?

[Tommy]

You realize that the NFL is a single organization and that it's teams are members of the whole, right? You're arguing for Chevrolet to do their best to put GM out of business.

Yes.


And my whole point was that there are too many teams and the cap keeps teams at average.

Everyone hooting and hollering about the playoff implications this week are ridiculous. The fact that this is happening spells out how most of the league can't lock up a playoff spot until the last day of the season.

In hockey and B-ball we call those teams 8th/9th seeds.

Now you are acting borderline retarded. That's my go to, "retard." It's like your "Obama."

There are SIXTEEN fucking games in an NFL season. It doesn't make sense to you that maybe, just maybe, that has something to do with playoff seeds getting locked up so late? It's a little different than playing 80 or 160 games.

Again, look around you. Talk to some NFL fans. Most people love the current NFL. Everybody makes money, the fans are happy.

The only person complaining is you. Because you, like, want to see the Redskins and Dallas in the NFC Championship game every year. Or something.

What are you bitching about again?

I don't like the cap in sports. Pretty fucking easy.

[SkyDog112046]

You realize that the NFL is a single organization and that it's teams are members of the whole, right? You're arguing for Chevrolet to do their best to put GM out of business.

You are correct that the NFL is a single organization. I think from he recent round of antitrust lawsuits from a clothing manufacturer that wanted to make apparel for only one team that the NFL structure is more like the league is General Motors and each of the franchises is a GM dealership. The franchises are exactly that: franchises. The league is the ultimate owner and the franchises are beholden to the league's authority.

And just as GM wouldn't want individual dealerships to knock other dealerships across the country out of business and lose customers in different markets the NFL doesn't want teams to put each other out of business. The NFL as a whole is stronger with 32 healthy teams than with 5 or 6 dominant ones and a dozen or so with little fan interest.

[Crazy Levi]

I don't like the cap in sports. Pretty fucking easy.

I used to agree with you. Like in 1993 when suddenly the Redskins couldn't afford to have starting-quality backup players in all the team's skill positions, and when suddenly trading draft picks away for veterans no longer worked.

Seriously, it sucked.

But I've come to appreciate the cap, especially living in New York where I have a front row to the annual Red Sox/Yankees free agent freak show.

It's fucking lame. Baseball is fucking lame. I used to be an Orioles fan, but I haven't given a shit about baseball in a decade. Why should I? It's just not that fascinating watching the Yanks and Red Sox fight it out in the division every year.

Your opposition to the cap lies solely in your interest as a Yankees fan.

If you were a fan of virtually any other team you'd realize how stupifyingly dull MLB is now for everybody else.

[bane]

You realize that the NFL is a single organization and that it's teams are members of the whole, right? You're arguing for Chevrolet to do their best to put GM out of business.

COMMUNIST MUSLIM!

The NFL, as a business, is in competition with MLB, the NBA, and the NHL.You can throw in a few other entities once we start talking global, and they compete with other forms of entertainment for TV ratings etc. but those other leagues are the primary competition. The 32 separate teams are merely competing with each other for the trophy at the end of the year. There is an additional financial benefit for the individual owners in running a good organization that gains in value so that they can cash in when they sell. A well run ship will appreciate in value more than an organization that isn't. That appears to be a concept that eludes Tommy.

[bane]

I don't like the cap in sports. Pretty fucking easy.

I used to agree with you. Like in 1993 when suddenly the Redskins couldn't afford to have starting-quality backup players in all the team's skill positions, and when suddenly trading draft picks away for veterans no longer worked.

Seriously, it sucked.

But I've come to appreciate the cap, especially living in New York where I have a front row to the annual Red Sox/Yankees free agent freak show.

It's fucking lame. Baseball is fucking lame. I used to be an Orioles fan, but I haven't given a shit about baseball in a decade. Why should I? It's just not that fascinating watching the Yanks and Red Sox fight it out in the division every year.

Your opposition to the cap lies solely in your interest as a Yankees fan.

If you were a fan of virtually any other team you'd realize how stupifyingly dull MLB is now for everybody else.

So this. Fuck the Yankees and fuck their delussional retard fans.