NFL 2011 Thread

[Tommy]

WOW! You're whole everything is because I root for the Yankees. OK.

Fine, whatevs. If people don't at least understand my point then it's lost. No biggie.

Giants beat Cowboys this Sunday.

[Machado]

Giants beat Cowboys this Sunday.

Break it down for me. Explain how this will be done.


No secret I'm a Cowboy fan and right now I am debating just how the
Dallas Cowboys can win this game or how the Giants will give the game
away.

So many factors involved on both sides of the ball.

This game could be decided by special teams and field position???

[SkyDog112046]

I don't like the cap in sports. Pretty fucking easy.

Say Bill Gates and Warren Buffett get together and buy a baseball team, for argument's sake lets say they buy the Orioles. And it becomes a pure vanity purchase for them where they don't care about anything except winning.

They lure away the best management and scouting departments from other teams and set up developmental groups in other countries to find hidden talent. They dismantle the major league club to pick up top prospects from other teams so within a few seasons they have the deepest farm system in the league. They start using their deep farm system to trade for top talent from small market teams that are about to hit free agency. The farm system also gives them excellent depth that other teams don't have to deal with in-season injuries to star players.

They let it be known to agents like Boras that they will pay top dollar to top prospects who refuse to sign with the teams that draft them. Then they go out and start signing all the top free agents they want and tell Boras and his ilk that they will beat any offer to top tier talent. They decide that they can live with a $500M payroll. They are willing to spend another $50M or so a year on underperforming players they trade to other teams while covering their salaries so they can free up roster spots.

A few years down the road you'd be the first one screeching that the Yankees could only get the wild card once every 4 or 5 years because Gates & Buffett were outspending your team in every facet of the organization and had the division pretty much locked up every year.

[Tommy]

Giants beat Cowboys this Sunday.

Break it down for me. Explain how this will be done.


No secret I'm a Cowboy fan and right now I am debating just how the
Dallas Cowboys can win this game or how the Giants will give the game
away.

So many factors involved on both sides of the ball.

This game could be decided by special teams and field position???

Well I don't know EXACTLY what's going to happen.

But the Cowboys are on the schnied. Lost 3 of the last 4. The 4 game winning streak before that was against some awful teams. In fact, their only impressive win was against the 49ers.

I just think the Giants are better and get it done this week, and Giants fans will have to wait another week to see if Coughlin is fired.

[Tommy]

I don't like the cap in sports. Pretty fucking easy.

Say Bill Gates and Warren Buffett get together and buy a baseball team, for argument's sake lets say they buy the Orioles. And it becomes a pure vanity purchase for them where they don't care about anything except winning.

They lure away the best management and scouting departments from other teams and set up developmental groups in other countries to find hidden talent. They dismantle the major league club to pick up top prospects from other teams so within a few seasons they have the deepest farm system in the league. They start using their deep farm system to trade for top talent from small market teams that are about to hit free agency. The farm system also gives them excellent depth that other teams don't have to deal with in-season injuries to star players.

They let it be known to agents like Boras that they will pay top dollar to top prospects who refuse to sign with the teams that draft them. Then they go out and start signing all the top free agents they want and tell Boras and his ilk that they will beat any offer to top tier talent. They decide that they can live with a $500M payroll. They are willing to spend another $50M or so a year on underperforming players they trade to other teams while covering their salaries so they can free up roster spots.

A few years down the road you'd be the first one screeching that the Yankees could only get the wild card once every 4 or 5 years because Gates & Buffett were outspending your team in every facet of the organization and had the division pretty much locked up every year.

As I already stated, All-Star teams don't work.

[bane]

As I already stated, All-Star teams don't work.

Sure they do. The Yankees of the past couple decades are testament to it. It doesn't ALWAYS work, but it sure gives you a leg up on everybody else.

[WTF]

[

As I already stated, All-Star teams don't work.

Then you lost me. I thought all along you were crying that any team should be able to spend as much as they want and that the smaller market or lesser supported teams were just shit out of luck. It sounded like you want there to only be a handful of teams that can compete each year.

What am I missing?

[Machado]

Giants beat Cowboys this Sunday.

Break it down for me. Explain how this will be done.


No secret I'm a Cowboy fan and right now I am debating just how the
Dallas Cowboys can win this game or how the Giants will give the game
away.

So many factors involved on both sides of the ball.

This game could be decided by special teams and field position???

Well I don't know EXACTLY what's going to happen.

But the Cowboys are on the schnied. Lost 3 of the last 4. The 4 game winning streak before that was against some awful teams. In fact, their only impressive win was against the 49ers.

I just think the Giants are better and get it done this week, and Giants fans will have to wait another week to see if Coughlin is fired.

Well I sort of see what you are trying to say, but let's make sure we all know the win at SF was a solid win. For a long time Dallas was the only team to defeat SF.
Anyway, I'm not sure if home field this Sunday night will be a major advantage.
Matter of fact, the way Dallas has played to date, it might be beneficial this game is a road game.
A 4 game winning streak is nothing to mock. The schedule is there to be played. Not every NFL team can play the best team weekly.

[Crazy Levi]

I like how Tommy is pretending that the Giants annual second half slide didn't happen just because they managed to beat the shitty Jets.

The Giants are what...2-5 in the second half of the season? Big fucking deal.

You can't play the "Dallas has sucked losing 3-4" card without including the Giants.

That being said, I'm picking the Giants. They'll get it done.

[Tommy]

[

As I already stated, All-Star teams don't work.

Then you lost me. I thought all along you were crying that any team should be able to spend as much as they want and that the smaller market or lesser supported teams were just shit out of luck. It sounded like you want there to only be a handful of teams that can compete each year.

What am I missing?

OK, last time I'm talking about this because I feel bad because I might have fucked up the thread and that wasn't my intention. All I said was parity = mediocrity and it became all this.

Anyway, to your question....

I think no team should be held back from using all their assets at their disposal. The Yankees won jack shit from 01-08. IMO those were the worst years for the Yankees buying everyone. I don't think it works. But I think THE YANKEES should be allowed to do whatever they want with their money. If they get in their own way, then so be it. I said I don't like teams that take revenue and then don't do anything else to improve their teams. I'd like to think most would at least agree with me on that point. I used MLB teams just now, but it's sports-wide.

And I'm not some heartless bastard but if you can't keep up with other teams you probably should move (ATL Thrashers) or shouldn't be in sports ownership. I understand someone has to be the worst each year. But when you're the worst forever AND you use other teams' money to do it...I I have a problem with that.


OK, I'm done with this and I apologize if you guys thought I was trolling or something.

Go Jets.

[Tommy]

I like how Tommy is pretending that the Giants annual second half slide didn't happen just because they managed to beat the shitty Jets.

The Giants are what...2-5 in the second half of the season? Big fucking deal.

You can't play the "Dallas has sucked losing 3-4" card without including the Giants.

That being said, I'm picking the Giants. They'll get it done.

3 of those 5 losses were to the Packers, Saints, and 49ers. All teams that are a step above the Giants. Giants have had a brutal 2nd half schedule. I think they are the better team heading into Sunday.

Sorry Levi, no pretending. Just like...facts n shit.

[Crazy Levi]

OK, I'm done with this and I apologize if you guys thought I was trolling or something.

Go Jets.

Didn't think you were trolling though your injection of politics was quite unwelcome. Plenty of time for that in 2012.

Go Jets?! Where?

It would take a miracle for them to make the playoffs. Cleveland ain't gonna beat the Steelers, and the Jets aren't going to beat Miami. And that's just for starters.

[WTF]

Go Jets.

Now you've done it.

[Tommy]

OK, I'm done with this and I apologize if you guys thought I was trolling or something.

Go Jets.

Didn't think you were trolling though your injection of politics was quite unwelcome. Plenty of time for that in 2012.

Go Jets?! Where?

It would take a miracle for them to make the playoffs. Cleveland ain't gonna beat the Steelers, and the Jets aren't going to beat Miami. And that's just for starters.

I think I read they need to win and 3 teams need to lose.

It's borderline hopeless, but there's a glimmer of hope.

[SkyDog112046]

I think I read they need to win and 3 teams need to lose.

It's borderline hopeless, but there's a glimmer of hope.

And doesn't that make this weekend more interesting than if all 12 playoff spots were locked up 2 or 3 weeks ago?

[Machado]

I like how Tommy is pretending that the Giants annual second half slide didn't happen just because they managed to beat the shitty Jets.

The Giants are what...2-5 in the second half of the season? Big fucking deal.

You can't play the "Dallas has sucked losing 3-4" card without including the Giants.

That being said, I'm picking the Giants. They'll get it done.

3 of those 5 losses were to the Packers, Saints, and 49ers. All teams that are a step above the Giants. Giants have had a brutal 2nd half schedule. I think they are the better team heading into Sunday.

Sorry Levi, no pretending. Just like...facts n shit.

Why do you feel the need to validate(come up with excuses) for losing to those 3 teams you previously mentioned?

[Tommy]

I think I read they need to win and 3 teams need to lose.

It's borderline hopeless, but there's a glimmer of hope.

And doesn't that make this weekend more interesting than if all 12 playoff spots were locked up 2 or 3 weeks ago?

[Tommy]

Why do you feel the need to validate(come up with excuses) for losing to those 3 teams you previously mentioned?

Just coming around to the fact that I think those losses were by a 2nd tier team to 1st tier teams.


Last game of the season, might as well look at records if we're going to be predicting things.

[Machado]

Why do you feel the need to validate(come up with excuses) for losing to those 3 teams you previously mentioned?

Just coming around to the fact that I think those losses were by a 2nd tier team to 1st tier teams.


Last game of the season, might as well look at records if we're going to be predicting things.

That's fine. Whatever makes you feel better.
I am always amused when someone wants to blame "the schedule" for why a team wins a lot, loses a lot, etc....
There is no such thing as a perfect schedule. Teams play who they are schedule to play and that's it.

Because this upcoming game is for the NFC east title and the loser goes home, I say you throw out the records because those will hardly matter.

[HMJ]

Ok...so the Saints will have to play the Falcons AGAIN in the wild card. Man, fucking yawn. Gimme the Lions or Giants or something. Lame.

[Tommy]

Ok...so the Saints will have to play the Falcons AGAIN in the wild card. Man, fucking yawn. Gimme the Lions or Giants or something. Lame.

Careful

http://www.realclearsports.com/charts/r ... g-146.html

[bane]

Why do you feel the need to validate(come up with excuses) for losing to those 3 teams you previously mentioned?

Just coming around to the fact that I think those losses were by a 2nd tier team to 1st tier teams.


Last game of the season, might as well look at records if we're going to be predicting things.

That's fine. Whatever makes you feel better.
I am always amused when someone wants to blame "the schedule" for why a team wins a lot, loses a lot, etc....
There is no such thing as a perfect schedule. Teams play who they are schedule to play and that's it.

Because this upcoming game is for the NFC east title and the loser goes home, I say you throw out the records because those will hardly matter.

Strength of schedule and quality of losses and victories is a pretty good indicator when you're comparing teams with the same record. I think the Giants are a better team this year than the Cowboys. That doesn't mean Dallas can't pull it off though. It's the NFL. Any given Sunday and all that.

[HMJ]

Ok...so the Saints will have to play the Falcons AGAIN in the wild card. Man, fucking yawn. Gimme the Lions or Giants or something. Lame.

Careful

http://www.realclearsports.com/charts/r ... g-146.html

Oh I'm well aware of that stat as well. All the more reason to be annoyed. I hate the falcons and thought I'd be done with them this season. Argh.

[Crazy Levi]

I forget...what needs to happen this week for the Colts to slip in to the playoffs?

[bane]

I forget...what needs to happen this week for the Colts to slip in to the playoffs?

Uh, Somebody blows up Reliant Stadium during the Texans v Titans game and the Jags all get Ebola?

[SkyDog112046]

I forget...what needs to happen this week for the Colts to slip in to the playoffs?

Uh, Somebody blows up Reliant Stadium during the Texans v Titans game and the Jags all get Ebola?

How about another Polian rule change. The standings are inverted this year, meaning the teams with the most losses get in. 2-14 ought to be good for home advantage. The rule change takes effect on January 1st.

[Artemis2085]

Go Cowboys.

And while not his favorite team, Greg is clearly a Romosexual.

[MickeyG]

Is there really that big of a difference in revenue income between the NFL clubs? I'm definitely against the scenario that Skydog put forward with Gates and Buffett at the helm, but what about spending what you earn and then the rest like tv money is split evenly?

[bane]

Is there really that big of a difference in revenue income between the NFL clubs? I'm definitely against the scenario that Skydog put forward with Gates and Buffett at the helm, but what about spending what you earn and then the rest like tv money is split evenly?

The NFL does split up revenue, that's why they thrive. It's not what MLB does. The Yankees TV revenue alone is more than some teams entire annual revenue and they don't share it. There is a paltry luxury tax on big spending teams, but it's a drop in the bucket. The MLB system sucks.

[SkyDog112046]

Is there really that big of a difference in revenue income between the NFL clubs? I'm definitely against the scenario that Skydog put forward with Gates and Buffett at the helm, but what about spending what you earn and then the rest like tv money is split evenly?

The stadium revenues are vastly different. The owners came up against that when they came up with the current revenue sharing deal. Teams with new stadiums in big markets had much more stadium revenue than clubs with older stadiums in smaller markets. Even though the teams shared everything from the TV deal and had a home/away split on the gate the other revenue streams created an uneven playing field.

Prior to that owners agreement teams didn't split seat licenses or luxury box money. Nor did they split in-stadium advertising dollars. That allowed teams such as New England(new stadium, big market, recent championships) to have a huge advantage over teams like Buffalo(old stadium, bad market, lousy history). The top teams had around $400M in revenues and the bottom teams were around $200M. When you factored in expenses and debt service teams at the top could easily max out their cap while the teams at the bottom couldn't. And those numbers were widening, not closing, so it would only have gotten worse. The NFL did the right thing by addressing it.