2012 NFL draft.....let's hear your thoughts

[LillianRoxyFA]

I love the NFL draft. In fact, I think it's one of the top 10 events in all of sports.

The draft order has been set. I'm sure some of us root for some of the unfortunate teams that find themselves with high picks. Even if that's not the case, let's hear what you think will happen.

I think the Colts will have to draft Luck, despite having Manning still on the team. I say trade Manning to Washington for a ton of picks and begin rebuilding.

The key to the draft comes at #2 with the Rams. They can trade out with a team that wants RGIII, or go O-Line, or WR (Blackmon). At this point protecting Bradford is more important than giving him a target to throw to.

The Vikes at #3 will be hoping RGIII is still on the board, not to draft him, but to sell him to Redskins/Dolphins/Seahawks for picks. The Vikes have so many holes that they need as many picks as possible.

Watch out for the Browns jumping to #2 to get RGIII, leaving the Vikes to take the OLer from USC. The Rams would still be able to get Blackmon, and have a extra pick or two to boot.

Beyond that it all guess work.

[Redman77]

I'm not sure what to do. As a Lions fan, we're usually talking draft the middle part of the season.

[HMJ]

As a fan with an already fantastic team, I'm ambivalent. Call me in 2 or 3 years when we need a QB and we're back to 4-12 status.

[Machado]

Cowboys need to draft a DB. Not sure who is the #1 rated DB on the board, but as long as the DB knows how to tackle and does not mind getting in the middle of a running back's chest from time to time.

[ParaDime77]

Vikings will need to take either Blackmon or the OL from USC. They are still paying first round $$$ to Ponder and are severely lacking at WR, OL and DB. I like the idea of the poster that said trade Manning-Face to the "Skins for a boatload of picks.

[Machado]

Vikings will need to take either Blackmon or the OL from USC. They are still paying first round $$$ to Ponder and are severely lacking at WR, OL and DB. I like the idea of the poster that said trade Manning-Face to the "Skins for a boatload of picks.

Why would the SKINS agree to a trade when the likelyhood is the Colts will release Manning?
I really can't see why the Colts would pay Manning another $20 million, since he's coming off a serious injury.

Releasing him will end an era, save them some $$$ that they can use on multiple players and if they draft Luck, there is the next QB for 7-10 years.

[bane]

Vikings will need to take either Blackmon or the OL from USC. They are still paying first round $$$ to Ponder and are severely lacking at WR, OL and DB. I like the idea of the poster that said trade Manning-Face to the "Skins for a boatload of picks.

Why would the SKINS agree to a trade when the likelyhood is the Colts will release Manning?
.

Because they'd be sure to get him. If he's a free agent do you really see him going to Washington?

[SkyDog112046]

Vikings will need to take either Blackmon or the OL from USC. They are still paying first round $$$ to Ponder and are severely lacking at WR, OL and DB. I like the idea of the poster that said trade Manning-Face to the "Skins for a boatload of picks.

Why would the SKINS agree to a trade when the likelyhood is the Colts will release Manning?
.

Because they'd be sure to get him. If he's a free agent do you really see him going to Washington?

Manning will determine where he goes. He can hold his contract over the Colts' heads. If they take the out clause then he is a free agent and can go where he wants. If they ask him to renegotiate so they can trade him he will pick his spot with at most having a short list before agreeing to a new deal.

[SkyDog112046]

As for what New England will do in the draft is hard to say. They have 2 picks late in the 1st round and 2 picks in the second round so they should be in a good position to draft players that can have impact without costing too much now that there is a rookie cap. So I'd like to think they might use them this year instead of trading down for "value". Value picks over the past 3 or 4 seasons = the worst defense in the NFL.

If they use the picks they will go D-line, OLB, CB, and WR with the order depending on how those 4 positions stack up on their draft board. Most certainly the first pick will be a pass rusher. Unless of course they continue on the odd quest of trying to trade all their current picks to get the entire first two rounds of the 2017 draft.

[Tymaster]

The Browns can improve at every position, so I wish they had the first 22 picks.

[djwill665]

The Browns can improve at every position, so I wish they had the first 22 picks.

Carolina is in dire need of a 2nd WR and massive improvements on the D.

So..as against as I was about the Cam Draft..he more than proved his worth even with a 6-10 finish.

The D gave up so many yards (& leads) to RB's its rediculous.

Carolina has the 8th or 9th pick I believe...so hopefully they'll be someone there worthy in the 1st round.

[LillianRoxyFA]

Vikings will need to take either Blackmon or the OL from USC. They are still paying first round $$$ to Ponder and are severely lacking at WR, OL and DB. I like the idea of the poster that said trade Manning-Face to the "Skins for a boatload of picks.

Why would the SKINS agree to a trade when the likelyhood is the Colts will release Manning?
.

Because they'd be sure to get him. If he's a free agent do you really see him going to Washington?

Washington seems like a logical choice to covet the bright, shiny object that is P Manning. I would also put the Cowboys in the mix given Romo's up and down play.

[SkyDog112046]

Washington seems like a logical choice to covet the bright, shiny object that is P Manning. I would also put the Cowboys in the mix given Romo's up and down play.

Manning is going to want to go somewhere that:
Is in doors or has reasonable weather
Has a good organizational structure with a good coaching staff
Has a good defense
Is solid on offense other than at QB
Can lure in the last few free agent pieces necessary to win now.

How many teams fit those criteria?

Washington has some of those things in place but the weather is bad late in the season and during the playoffs, and Snyder has a shitty reputation.

New York Jets have most of those things in place but the weather can be bad and they need an Offensive Coordinator, although that aspect might work in their favor as Manning can pick his guy.

How about San Fran? They have just about everything and could use an upgrade at QB.

[Crazy Levi]

How about San Fran? They have just about everything and could use an upgrade at QB.

Why would San Fran want to fuck a good thing up? Seems like a bad idea. We'll see how the playoffs go but they have a good thing going there. Harbaugh seems to be doing a good job with Smith and has been pretty clear that he's the guy since the moment he came in.

I think Manning would be able to sacrifice a bit on the weather. Bringing a team like the Jets back to glory would be a perfect career capper for him.

But with the Polians out of the way, I'm thinking he stays in Indy. Even if it basically ruins the team for 4 or 5 years, it seems like Irsay really wants to "do the right thing" with Manning - pay him and keep him around, even if Luck is there too. Unless Manning really wants to leave - and why would he - I don't think he'll get cut loose.

[johnk5150]

As a fan with an already fantastic team, I'm ambivalent. Call me in 2 or 3 years when we need a QB and we're back to 4-12 status.

Is it weird for you being a Saints fans and knowing they're a perennial winner?

[bane]

Washington seems like a logical choice to covet the bright, shiny object that is P Manning. I would also put the Cowboys in the mix given Romo's up and down play.

I don't doubt Washington would want him. I do doubt he'd want to go there given the choice. I don't think Romo is the problem in Dallas. They've got serious issues on defense.I think Miami might be a good fit for Manning.

[SkyDog112046]

How about San Fran? They have just about everything and could use an upgrade at QB.

Why would San Fran want to fuck a good thing up? Seems like a bad idea. We'll see how the playoffs go but they have a good thing going there. Harbaugh seems to be doing a good job with Smith and has been pretty clear that he's the guy since the moment he came in.

I think Manning would be able to sacrifice a bit on the weather. Bringing a team like the Jets back to glory would be a perfect career capper for him.

But with the Polians out of the way, I'm thinking he stays in Indy. Even if it basically ruins the team for 4 or 5 years, it seems like Irsay really wants to "do the right thing" with Manning - pay him and keep him around, even if Luck is there too. Unless Manning really wants to leave - and why would he - I don't think he'll get cut loose.

Manning's record in bad weather is abysmal. Why would he want to go somewhere and deal with the cold at his age coming off a neck & shoulder injury? He'd be looking at 5-6 games a year in potentially bad weather conditions plus the playoffs. And he'd be going to a division with a solid New England team that should be reloading through the draft so he'd most likely end up having to play there in January. Manning + Foxboro + January = Disaster. He has better options.

Sure Harbaugh says Smith is his guy, but you don't think he'd upgrade to Manning for 1-2 years if given a chance? They've got an excellent defense and a solid offense outside of their QB. The offense lacks explosiveness with Smith calling the signals. Compare him to the starting QBs of the 12 playoff teams and then rank him while projecting into 2012(Schaub will be back). He's ahead of Tebow and Dalton(who will get better with experience), but that's it. He's about the equivalent of Flacco. Smith would be roughly 10th out of the this group of QBs. He may be an OK game manager but with the rule changes that now favor offenses it's probably not enough to win a Superbowl. Manning at 85% of what he was just last season is enough for SF to keep up with Brees & Rodgers. Smith isn't.

I do agree that Manning will now most likely stay in Indy but that it will most likely cost them the chance to be a contender.

[bane]

How does keeping Manning cost them a chance at being a contender? Luck is an unknown. Manning won his division with the same team that won 2 games this year. If anything, he gives them a chance to hang on a little bit longer. They've got to rebuild eventually, but keeping him enables them to start the process while still having a shot at staying competitive.

[SkyDog112046]

How does keeping Manning cost them a chance at being a contender? Luck is an unknown. Manning won his division with the same team that won 2 games this year. If anything, he gives them a chance to hang on a little bit longer. They've got to rebuild eventually, but keeping him enables them to start the process while still having a shot at staying competitive.

Having 20% of the salary cap tied up in 1 position while needing to sign multiple players who will be free agents such as Garcon, Mathis, Saturday, Tamme, & Wayne. Then having several holes to fill and no depth while already having used their top draft pick on a position that won't immediately help them. And there's always the chance that Manning won't be right or gets re-injured. Indy is in a rebuilding mode. They could be competitive but won't be a SB contender. Could they retool enough to make the playoffs next year? Certainly. Are they going to be able to be good enough to beat Balt, Hou, Pitt, or NE? No chance.

[bane]

How does keeping Manning cost them a chance at being a contender? Luck is an unknown. Manning won his division with the same team that won 2 games this year. If anything, he gives them a chance to hang on a little bit longer. They've got to rebuild eventually, but keeping him enables them to start the process while still having a shot at staying competitive.

Having 20% of the salary cap tied up in 1 position while needing to sign multiple players who will be free agents such as Garcon, Mathis, Saturday, Tamme, & Wayne. Then having several holes to fill and no depth while already having used their top draft pick on a position that won't immediately help them. And there's always the chance that Manning won't be right or gets re-injured. Indy is in a rebuilding mode. They could be competitive but won't be a SB contender. Could they retool enough to make the playoffs next year? Certainly. Are they going to be able to be good enough to beat Balt, Hou, Pitt, or NE? No chance.

That huge cap hit is only for one year though dude. After 2012 Manning's cap number goes way down. I don't see them keeping Wayne or Saturday no matter what, but keeping Manning could make it tougher to keep Mathis. They don't have to take Luck though. They could work a Hersall Walker type trade and fill a lot of those holes via the draft.

[SkyDog112046]

That huge cap hit is only for one year though dude. After 2012 Manning's cap number goes way down. I don't see them keeping Wayne or Saturday no matter what, but keeping Manning could make it tougher to keep Mathis. They don't have to take Luck though. They could work a Hersall Walker type trade and fill a lot of those holes via the draft.

Manning's cap hit for 2012 makes it difficult because they will be trying to win now. Any quality free agent will want the guarantee money up front which will have immediate cap implications. They aren't going to bring Manning back and then have to wait a few years to sign players. Irsay is saying he wants Luck. It could be posturing to drive up the price for the #1 pick but it appears he wants a GM who will draft Luck and build around him. The most they will get for the pick will be two #1's which would be a nice start filling in holes but they do have a ton of holes to fill.

They basically have to pick 2 out of 3: Manning, Luck, Free Agents.
1. Manning & Free Agents: They can use the picks they get for Luck to fill in the holes where they let some UFA's walk and then be competitive if Manning is ok. This becomes more do-able if Manning restructures. But 3 years from now they will be in the same boat they are now without a chance to pick up a QB rated as highly as Luck.
2. Manning & Luck: Goodbye UFA's and have fun filling in the holes without the 1st rounder. It's a multi-year proposition, and they are contenders in 2012.
3. Luck & UFA's: This becomes a rebuild. Sign only UFA's that can help long term. Use Manning's cap money on younger free agents on the market and then know they will still need the 2013 draft to finish the process. Bring in a veteran QB to help Luck develop and take the beating until they shore up their O-line. This route probably makes the most sense going forward. But they'll finish near the bottom of the league again in '12.

[bane]

What makes you think the best they get for Luck is two #1's? Remember how much NO gave up for Williams? Luck is the most highly touted QB in years. I tend to agree with your 3 scenarios, but think the #1 overall pick is more valuable this year than it usually is. They can also get Manning to restructure and stay as easily as they can get him to restructure for a sign and trade.

[Crazy Levi]

What makes you think the best they get for Luck is two #1's? Remember how much NO gave up for Williams? Luck is the most highly touted QB in years. I tend to agree with your 3 scenarios, but think the #1 overall pick is more valuable this year than it usually is. They can also get Manning to restructure and stay as easily as they can get him to restructure for a sign and trade.

A trade for Luck will involve a diastrous Hershel Walker-like trade for the team who gets him.

I think we are talking 5 or 6 top draft picks, including at least 3 #1s.

Whichever team makes this deal is assfucking themselves for a half decade or so, and the Colts will be in prime position to build a winner for another decade.

[ParaDime77]

Washington seems like a logical choice to covet the bright, shiny object that is P Manning. I would also put the Cowboys in the mix given Romo's up and down play.

Manning is going to want to go somewhere that:
Is in doors or has reasonable weather
Has a good organizational structure with a good coaching staff
Has a good defense
Is solid on offense other than at QB
Can lure in the last few free agent pieces necessary to win now.

How many teams fit those criteria?

Washington has some of those things in place but the weather is bad late in the season and during the playoffs, and Snyder has a shitty reputation.

New York Jets have most of those things in place but the weather can be bad and they need an Offensive Coordinator, although that aspect might work in their favor as Manning can pick his guy.

How about San Fran? They have just about everything and could use an upgrade at QB.

You don't think that the Bronco's and Elway wouldn't be licking their chops when it comes to Peyton?

[SkyDog112046]

What makes you think the best they get for Luck is two #1's? Remember how much NO gave up for Williams? Luck is the most highly touted QB in years. I tend to agree with your 3 scenarios, but think the #1 overall pick is more valuable this year than it usually is. They can also get Manning to restructure and stay as easily as they can get him to restructure for a sign and trade.

Nobody would be stupid enough to trade their entire draft for Luck. If Indy goes the trade route they want to win now so will want as much in 2012 as they can get. And no team has more than two #1 picks in 2012 so it's impossible for them to get more than that in 2012. Could they get a package similar to what Atlanta gave up to get Julio Jones? Sure, but those were late 1st, 2nd, & 4th round picks in 2011 plus conditional 2012 picks. Cleveland has the most immediate to give up with the 4th & 25th picks Cincy has the 17th & 23rd picks but they look to be set at QB. The only other team with multiple 1st rounders is NE and they don't need a QB.

Cleveland makes the most sense. They could package the #4 & #23 picks plus their 3rd round pick and then something conditional for 2013. Indy could then renegotiate with Manning, bring back the UFA's they want, and fill in the gaps with two 1st round, one 2nd round, and two 3rd round picks. Cleveland would then have a potential franchise QB and since their fans are used to them sucking it wouldn't be too hard a sell to them if the went through another rebuild.

[SkyDog112046]

You don't think that the Bronco's and Elway wouldn't be licking their chops when it comes to Peyton?

I know Elway was one of the greatest QBs in NFL history but I don't think he has the power to change Denver's weather. I can't see an aging & beat up Manning wanting to go deal with the cold and the thin air.

[bane]

You don't think that the Bronco's and Elway wouldn't be licking their chops when it comes to Peyton?

I know Elway was one of the greatest QBs in NFL history but I don't think he has the power to change Denver's weather. I can't see an aging & beat up Manning wanting to go deal with the cold and the thin air.

I think you're putting way too much stock in the cold weather thing. I seriously doubt it's much of a consideration for Manning at all. If he leaves Indy, it'll be to whatever team he thinks gives him the best chance to win another ring. Manning isn't 50. He's no more adverse to the cold than anyone else is. he hasn't done well in the cold historically because he played for a pass heavy dome team, not because he personally can't deal with it.

[WTF]

As for what New England will do in the draft is hard to say. They have 2 picks late in the 1st round and 2 picks in the second round so they should be in a good position to draft players that can have impact without costing too much now that there is a rookie cap. So I'd like to think they might use them this year instead of trading down for "value". Value picks over the past 3 or 4 seasons = the worst defense in the NFL.

If they use the picks they will go D-line, OLB, CB, and WR with the order depending on how those 4 positions stack up on their draft board. Most certainly the first pick will be a pass rusher. Unless of course they continue on the odd quest of trying to trade all their current picks to get the entire first two rounds of the 2017 draft.

Their early rounders haven't all panned out so well either....McCourty had a great year last year and sucks this year. He may fair well at safety. Chung can be a monster when he's not hurt from throwing his body all over the place. Ron Brace? Darius Butler? Brandon Fucking Merriweather? Terrence Wheatley?

[SkyDog112046]

I think you're putting way too much stock in the cold weather thing. I seriously doubt it's much of a consideration for Manning at all. If he leaves Indy, it'll be to whatever team he thinks gives him the best chance to win another ring. Manning isn't 50. He's no more adverse to the cold than anyone else is. he hasn't done well in the cold historically because he played for a pass heavy dome team, not because he personally can't deal with it.

He grew up in New Orleans, went to school in Tennessee, and has spent the past 14 years playing in a dome. He's completely imploded every time he's had to play in the snow. At the very least there would be an adjustment period for him just as there is for anyone who comes from a warm climate and goes somewhere cold. I'm sure it's part of the equation for him if he has to pick a future destination. All things being equal, he's going to go somewhere warm or indoors.

[SkyDog112046]

As for what New England will do in the draft is hard to say. They have 2 picks late in the 1st round and 2 picks in the second round so they should be in a good position to draft players that can have impact without costing too much now that there is a rookie cap. So I'd like to think they might use them this year instead of trading down for "value". Value picks over the past 3 or 4 seasons = the worst defense in the NFL.

If they use the picks they will go D-line, OLB, CB, and WR with the order depending on how those 4 positions stack up on their draft board. Most certainly the first pick will be a pass rusher. Unless of course they continue on the odd quest of trying to trade all their current picks to get the entire first two rounds of the 2017 draft.

Their early rounders haven't all panned out so well either....McCourty had a great year last year and sucks this year. He may fair well at safety. Chung can be a monster when he's not hurt from throwing his body all over the place. Ron Brace? Darius Butler? Brandon Fucking Merriweather? Terrence Wheatley?

Yeah, D-back and WR have been Belichick's blind spots. But he's done a good job on both lines, at QB, and LB. Part of the problem has been that he has kept trading out of the 1st round and then tried to draft cheap but with the rookie cap that shouldn't be so much of an issue. If he hits on just 2 of the 4 early picks while drafting for need that defense will be vastly improved next year. A pass rush will improve the pass coverage. I'd like to see him go D-line & OLB in the 1st round. CBs can be picked up in the 2nd & 3rd rounds. Pass rushers are usually long gone by then.