Manning VS Brady

[dtmfs]

Righ now baby bro has more than Peyton. Isn't that what matters the most???

So this must mean Bart Starr>>>>Joe Montana
Phil Simms>>>Marino, Favre, P. Manning, Brees and Charles Haley is the greatest player in NFL history. Super Bowls are part of it but lets not get out of hand, for the record I think Brady is better because as mentioned earlier Brady's done a lot more with less, there's a reason why most experts have guys like Marino, Favre and Manning above guys like Aikman and Bradshaw on the all time lists. Aikman and Montana were surrounded by HOF caliber players at damn near every position on both sides of the ball, those teams could've probably won multiple SB's with Ken O'Brien at QB.

[UtahRatt]

Righ now baby bro has more than Peyton. Isn't that what matters the most???

So this must mean Bart Starr>>>>Joe Montana
Phil Simms>>>Marino, Favre, P. Manning, Brees and Charles Haley is the greatest player in NFL history. Super Bowls are part of it but lets not get out of hand, for the record I think Brady is better because as mentioned earlier Brady's done a lot more with less, there's a reason why most experts have guys like Marino, Favre and Manning above guys like Aikman and Bradshaw on the all time lists. Aikman and Montana were surrounded by HOF caliber players at damn near every position on both sides of the ball, those teams could've probably won multiple SB's with Ken O'Brien at QB.

One point he does bring up is how many times did Peyton choke compared to Eli.

[dtmfs]

One point he does bring up is how many times did Peyton choke compared to Eli.

Eli def is more clutch no doubt about that but it's safe to say Peyton is far better all around than Eli, if eli's better than peyton than macadoo migt as well proclaim Hostettler, Rypien, and Dilfer better than Marino Moon and Kelly.

[bane]

If I'm starting an NFL team and I could have my pick of one of those guys in his prime, I'm picking Manning. Brady is brilliant, but looking at their respective team's results without them is a pretty good indicator of which one is better IMO.

[dtmfs]

If I'm starting an NFL team and I could have my pick of one of those guys in his prime, I'm picking Manning. Brady is brilliant, but looking at their respective team's results without them is a pretty good indicator of which one is better IMO.

That's a pretty good point, The colts sucked bad without manning, the pats made the playoffs with matt cassel,, belichick like him or not is a great coach, this has alot to do with this as well, is it just a coincidence that the guys with multiple titles/super bowls had legends like Lombardi, Brown, knoll, walsh, Johnson and belichick as coaches? 2 of those being real innovators.

[veritas]

If I'm starting an NFL team and I could have my pick of one of those guys in his prime, I'm picking Manning. Brady is brilliant, but looking at their respective team's results without them is a pretty good indicator of which one is better IMO.

well, that also speaks to how much the Colts based their entire team on Peyton and his offensive weapons, and neglected their defense for years and years. You would really need the teams and the offensive weapons to be comparable to really know the difference between the QBs. I mean, we saw in 2007 what happens when you give Brady Moss and Welker -- would he have those incredible numbers if had a Marvin Harrison, a Reggie Wayne and a Dallas Clark for big chunks of his career. Conversely, would Peyton have 3 or more rings if he had Belichick as a coach and the 2001-2007 patriots defense?

For me, it's too close to call in terms of who I would want as my QB. I think Peyton is the better offensive mind and probably the better "all-around' QB. But I tend to think that Brady is the better decision-maker under pressure and big stakes games. In other words, Peyton's one potential weakness is that he is not adverse to throwing a terrible pick at a bad time in a big game. I rarely recall Brady throwing bad picks at bad times.

I probably go with Brady, but it's almost too close to call for me. I do know that today I would take Peyton over Brady, based on how they are playing this season. I think Peyton actually throws deeper balls better than Brady does today, and can still throw all the short shit as well.

[DaveB]

That's a pretty good point, The colts sucked bad without manning,

Maybe. But there was a saying around Indy during that time..."Suck For Luck." They went 2-15 that season, got Luck then went 11-5 the next year. Granted, Painter and Collins both sucked at QB but that team wasn't *that* bad. They knew the score and what they could get with a 2 win season.

[Tenacious_Dio]

But there was a saying around Indy during that time..."Suck For Luck."

We had the same saying in Charlotte, the year before. Didn't quite work out as planned.

[bane]

That's a pretty good point, The colts sucked bad without manning,

Maybe. But there was a saying around Indy during that time..."Suck For Luck." They went 2-15 that season, got Luck then went 11-5 the next year. Granted, Painter and Collins both sucked at QB but that team wasn't *that* bad. They knew the score and what they could get with a 2 win season.

I don't doubt that they mailed in a game or two that year, especially late in the season but as I recall they made a lot of other changes after that season as well. New coach. New GM. Manning was the franchise IMO.

[alecjonsludge]

the pats made the playoffs with matt cassel

Um,no they didn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_New_E ... ots_season

[WTF]

the pats made the playoffs with matt cassel

Um,no they didn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_New_E ... ots_season

Thank you. Excellent record, but did not make playoffs.

[Crazy Levi]

I don't doubt that they mailed in a game or two that year, especially late in the season but as I recall they made a lot of other changes after that season as well. New coach. New GM. Manning was the franchise IMO.

I have no doubt the Colts tanked that season. Going in with a beat up, washed up Collins as the starter and useless out-of-the-league Painter as the backup it had to be set up, even if not everybody was "in on it."

[eddie lee roth]

I remember laughing at the Colts that season towards the end when they finally won a game and their fan base going aww shit now their going to fuck up our draft position.

lil pp would get so worked up whenever that was brought up.

[DaveB]

I remember laughing at the Colts that season towards the end when they finally won a game and their fan base going aww shit now their going to fuck up our draft position.

You've never seen a fan base pray for losses like Indy's did!

[bane]

I don't doubt that they mailed in a game or two that year, especially late in the season but as I recall they made a lot of other changes after that season as well. New coach. New GM. Manning was the franchise IMO.

I have no doubt the Colts tanked that season. Going in with a beat up, washed up Collins as the starter and useless out-of-the-league Painter as the backup it had to be set up, even if not everybody was "in on it."

Do you think that the coach and GM who lost their jobs after that season were in on it?

[Machado]

One point he does bring up is how many times did Peyton choke compared to Eli.

Eli def is more clutch no doubt about that but it's safe to say Peyton is far better all around than Eli, if eli's better than peyton than macadoo migt as well proclaim Hostettler, Rypien, and Dilfer better than Marino Moon and Kelly.

make all the jokes you want but i would bet anything the guys you mentioned, Marino & Moon & Kelly would love to trade in a season of great stats for a SB ring.

is the arguement about the better QB or is the arguement about which QB is
best in the clutch?
Kelly sucked in the clutch
Marino could not win the big game, ever.

[dtmfs]

make all the jokes you want but i would bet anything the guys you mentioned, Marino & Moon & Kelly would love to trade in a season of great stats for a SB ring.

is the arguement about the better QB or is the arguement about which QB is
best in the clutch?
Kelly sucked in the clutch
Marino could not win the big game, ever.

a season of stats? probably, but I highly doubt either of the 3 would trade their HOF careers for those of the ring winners I mentioned. Marino was in one super bowl and Shula admits to trying to ride his arm to a title his entire tenure with marino, Miami never gave him shit for a RB and his defenses were usually mediocre at best.

[Facedown]

Just to add to this and I don't have the exact numbers in front of me:

Brady has a better winning percentage and has only something like 14 less wins in 46? less games.
All this while playing 91% of his games outdoors while Peyton has played 49%.
Their numbers are similar in a dome.
Peyton under 40 degrees 8-12. Brady 33-4.
Peyton is around 6th all time for pick-6's and Brady is over 60th.

[johnk5150]

I saw Brady in person for the first time last night. He bleeds ice water. Holy crap is he good. He made Luck look like a clown.

[Machado]

make all the jokes you want but i would bet anything the guys you mentioned, Marino & Moon & Kelly would love to trade in a season of great stats for a SB ring.

is the arguement about the better QB or is the arguement about which QB is
best in the clutch?
Kelly sucked in the clutch
Marino could not win the big game, ever.

a season of stats? probably, but I highly doubt either of the 3 would trade their HOF careers for those of the ring winners I mentioned. Marino was in one super bowl and Shula admits to trying to ride his arm to a title his entire tenure with marino, Miami never gave him shit for a RB and his defenses were usually mediocre at best.

i know all about how inept Shula and the decision makers in Miami were against getting a RB. with someone like Marino, the Fins could have won at least 2 SB's. but they refused to get a good RB.

[DaveB]

I saw Brady in person for the first time last night. He bleeds ice water. Holy crap is he good. He made Luck look like a clown.

Wrong.

Luck actually had a better game than Brady when you look at the individual numbers. However, New England had a better game than Indy. The Pats made the Colts look like clowns. Jonas Gray made Indy look like clowns. Trent Richardson made his own team look like clowns. 7 carries for 0 yards...zero! I thought that picking him up from The Browns was an epic move but as it stands, Cleveland obviously knew what they were doing. That said, last night, even The Browns made Indy look like clowns!

[WTF]

I saw Brady in person for the first time last night. He bleeds ice water. Holy crap is he good. He made Luck look like a clown.

Wrong.

Luck actually had a better game than Brady when you look at the individual numbers. However, New England had a better game than Indy. The Pats made the Colts look like clowns. Jonas Gray made Indy look like clowns. Trent Richardson made his own team look like clowns. 7 carries for 0 yards...zero! I thought that picking him up from The Browns was an epic move but as it stands, Cleveland obviously knew what they were doing. That said, last night, even The Browns made Indy look like clowns!

Brady had one very bad play. Then he was Brady. Luck was good, no doubt. But without Coby Fleener raping Brandon Browner, he was just OK.

[veritas]

I saw Brady in person for the first time last night. He bleeds ice water. Holy crap is he good. He made Luck look like a clown.

Wrong.

Luck actually had a better game than Brady when you look at the individual numbers. However, New England had a better game than Indy. The Pats made the Colts look like clowns. Jonas Gray made Indy look like clowns. Trent Richardson made his own team look like clowns. 7 carries for 0 yards...zero! I thought that picking him up from The Browns was an epic move but as it stands, Cleveland obviously knew what they were doing. That said, last night, even The Browns made Indy look like clowns!

Brady had one very bad play. Then he was Brady. Luck was good, no doubt. But without Coby Fleener raping Brandon Browner, he was just OK.

Yeah, I wouldn't be crowing about Luck's passing stats, since many were in garbage time and they were pretty much forced to abandon the run for most of the game. Brady had two very bad passes in the first half, including a HORRIBLE, Geno Smith/ Mark Sanchez quality chuck up into the air interception at the end of the half. But then the fucker came out and had an impeccable second half, with plenty of clutch throws in tight coverage.

Luck looked mostly frustrated and confused -- he's very good, but his team's utter inability to run the ball, coupled with getting behind early, left him in a bad spot against a very solid Pats secondary.

Neither QB lit it up, but Brady finished with a 77 QBR and Luck with a 74 QBR. Big difference is that Brady was nearly perfect on critical third downs, whereas Luck was not. Obviously, having Gray run for 4,000 yards in the game was a huge crutch in creating easier 3rd down situations and red zone success.

[Crazy Levi]

I don't doubt that they mailed in a game or two that year, especially late in the season but as I recall they made a lot of other changes after that season as well. New coach. New GM. Manning was the franchise IMO.

I have no doubt the Colts tanked that season. Going in with a beat up, washed up Collins as the starter and useless out-of-the-league Painter as the backup it had to be set up, even if not everybody was "in on it."

Do you think that the coach and GM who lost their jobs after that season were in on it?

I don't think the fact that they were fired proves it wasn't a tank job. I think the owner and his cronies were in on it. I think that coach was "expendable," not really the guy the owner wanted (a leftover assistant from the past regime). I think the aging GM who had already done his best work was ready to retire (you don't see him General Managing in the NFL, do you? And this is a guy who built two dynasties). Maybe he didn't give a shit, or, from a GM perspective, totally understood what was going down and was ready to ride off into the sunset.

The Colts were set to fail that season - it sure looked like, from an organizational standpoint - that was the case. Kerry Collins was FINISHED and that's who bring out of mothballs to lead a team you think can contend? Back when I was making correct predictions I declared to P13 that the Colts would NEVER win a game with Kerry Collins - and I was right!

When he got predictably hurt about 10 minutes into the season, you just decide "hey, we'll roll with Curtis painter!" That was a team with one superstar possibly finished, and another there for the taking in the draft. They sure didn't seem to do anything to improve when Collins went down, or any other time in the season. They settled into losing quick and got real damn good at it, which was surprising for a team that was winning about 14 games a season for 10 years.

And, Yes yes, I'm just like Moggio..blahblahblah....