I think Metallica had more to do with music shifting in the early 90's than Nivarna

[killeverything]

Metallica changed everything. As much as or almost as much as The Ramones.

The Ramones? Bullshit. They didn't change anything and were a glorified gimmick that went on way too long. Back in the day nobody took them seriously. If they say it now, they're fucking lying.

Totally. I'll bet the first wave of punk from the UK was full of shit when they cited them. Joe Strummer was lying when he talked about it, the same with Glenn Danzig, or Henry Rollins, or Lemmy, or Jake Burns, or Dave Vanian....

[Rocker4Real]

The guys in Pantera credit Metallica for creating a void for Metal fans who still wanted heavy music.

[Bono Nettencourt]

Metallica changed everything. As much as or almost as much as The Ramones.

The Ramones? Bullshit. They didn't change anything and were a glorified gimmick that went on way too long. Back in the day nobody took them seriously. If they say it now, they're fucking lying.

Yeah what did they "change"? They weren't nearly as influential as the Pistols or The Clash, not by a long shot.

[killeverything]

Metallica changed everything. As much as or almost as much as The Ramones.

The Ramones? Bullshit. They didn't change anything and were a glorified gimmick that went on way too long. Back in the day nobody took them seriously. If they say it now, they're fucking lying.

Yeah what did they "change"? They weren't nearly as influential as the Pistols or The Clash, not by a long shot.

Those bands wouldn't have existed without them.

[Bono Nettencourt]

The Ramones? Bullshit. They didn't change anything and were a glorified gimmick that went on way too long. Back in the day nobody took them seriously. If they say it now, they're fucking lying.

Yeah what did they "change"? They weren't nearly as influential as the Pistols or The Clash, not by a long shot.

Those bands wouldn't have existed without them.

False. They all started out at around the same time.

[killeverything]

Yeah what did they "change"? They weren't nearly as influential as the Pistols or The Clash, not by a long shot.

Those bands wouldn't have existed without them.

False. They all started out at around the same time.

I think they were an influence, probably, because that's what they fucking said.

[uwec95]

There were a lot of factors in the music shifting in the early 90s. I entered college in the fall of 1990, and pretty much only listened to metal. Going to house parties in dumpy basements of upper classmen, from different places than where I grew up, opened my ears to a wide variety of music. The one band that really made me take notice that wasn't metal was Janes Addiction. I remember hearing the album Nothing's Shocking played at a house party and thinking, "what the fuck is this?" I was immediately obsessed with that album. I was then exposed to a lot of the Replacements and Soul Asylum in the dorms. Then once Nirvana and Pearl Jam hit I was all in. I never gave up my love for metal, though.

[pieceofme]

Metallica changed everything. As much as or almost as much as The Ramones.

The Ramones? Bullshit. They didn't change anything and were a glorified gimmick that went on way too long. Back in the day nobody took them seriously. If they say it now, they're fucking lying.

Yeah what did they "change"? They weren't nearly as influential as the Pistols or The Clash, not by a long shot.

T-shirt sales?

[CrankerBait]

The grunge/Seattle stuff, at least for most listeners, seemed to come out of nowhere when it broke big. Metallica had been steadily building/moving towards superstardom for a few years/albums and I think more than a few people could predict their eventual rise to A-list status.

[Bono Nettencourt]

The Ramones? Bullshit. They didn't change anything and were a glorified gimmick that went on way too long. Back in the day nobody took them seriously. If they say it now, they're fucking lying.

Yeah what did they "change"? They weren't nearly as influential as the Pistols or The Clash, not by a long shot.

T-shirt sales?

Them and Lemmy.

[Love_Industry]

Don't underestimate grunge's impact on fashion. You could buy Leppard or Van Halen albums in 1993 but you just couldn't dress like you did in 1988. Or have an 80s type hairstyle. What was fashionable five years earlier now looked like a costume.

This impact was way beyond the target group for grunge music. People in their 40s and 50s were all of a sudden wearing knitted hats and flannel shirts and women of all ages ditched their big hair overnight.

Now if you dressed in 5 year old clothes or had the same haircut as in 2020 nobody would notice.

[ElectrickMagick]

The first band that I ever thought was "different" was Anthrax. For a kid growing up outside of Nashville TN Anthrax was like something from a different planet. It was heavy but there was also the hardcore influence in there, a bit of hip-hop with "I'm the Man," and a peek inside of the indie comic book scene with stuff like "I am the Law." Lyrically they were socially conscious, but also loved pop culture, it was different than what most of the other thrash bands were writing about. They were nerdy in a way, which made them approachable. They also didn't wear makeup or spandex, though early on they all had a lot of hair, but even by 1990 I think Scott Ian was starting to shave his head. I don't think Anthrax has ever gotten the credit they deserve for being unique.

Clearly by the of "And Justice for All" and the success of "One" bands like Metallica were making a lot of the over the top hairbands look silly. Whether it's politicians or music, people always tend to embrace what they think of as "authentic" and Metallica had that sort of cache in a way Enuf Z Nuf never would. Guns N Roses had it too, they weren't just singing about girls and good times, it felt gritty and real. But I think GnR wasn't able to hold onto that vibe, they were clearly rock stars, while Metallica were guys drinking cheap beer at a dive bar. A lot of the grunge bands had that aesthetic too, I'm a Pearl Jam fan but if I saw any of those guys outside of Eddie Vedder at a grocery store I wouldn't be able to make the connection.

[alexleehooker]

It's always been my position that Nirvana opened the jar but a shit-ton of other bands helped loosen it: Metallica, R.E.M., Jane's Addiction, Faith No More, Ministry, Soundgarden, Primus, etc.

And who got that ball rolling? GUNS N' ROSES. Cobain would never admit it, but Guns N' Roses... I guess opened the door to the kitchen where the jar was? I really painted myself into a corner with this jar thing.

This part about GN’R is exactly right. And then Axl brought Faith No More and Soundgarden out on some of their earliest tours, and I believe he wanted to do the same with NIN, NWA, and…Nirvana.

It’s hard to portion it out but if Nirvana gets half the credit for the early 90s shift I think Metallica and GN’R split most of the other half.

Nirvana I think signed to GnRs label Geffen and had the same font for their logo

[joey78]

Flotsam and Jetsam’s Cuatro was their attempt at a Black Album .

Solid record but unfortunately didn’t do very well

[Love_Industry]

Flotsam and Jetsam’s Cuatro was their attempt at a Black Album .

Solid record but unfortunately didn’t do very well

Grunge killed the market for thrash more so than for hair metal.
Hair bands had at least the option to get softer, put out ballad singles and capture more of the "adult" market.
Thrash had nowhere to go after grunge became the dominating genre of rock music for teenagers.

Grunge pulled the pants down on the supposedly "real", "non-elitist" and "non-image" thrashers - it was just as codified and more pretentious than hair metal with its battle vests and talk about "poser" fans and whatever.

[Wednesday 13 Fan]

Flotsam and Jetsam’s Cuatro was their attempt at a Black Album .

Solid record but unfortunately didn’t do very well

Grunge killed the market for thrash more so than for hair metal.
Hair bands had at least the option to get softer, put out ballad singles and capture more of the "adult" market.
Thrash had nowhere to go after grunge became the dominating genre of rock music for teenagers.

Grunge pulled the pants down on the supposedly "real", "non-elitist" and "non-image" thrashers - it was just as codified and more pretentious than hair metal with its battle vests and talk about "poser" fans and whatever.

You just explained Grunge pretty well there. It never ceases to amaze me how people can't see what a complete pose it was... complete with silly things like wearing T-shirts on Rolling Stone magazine saying how much corporate magazines suck, yet posing for them.

[Love_Industry]

Flotsam and Jetsam’s Cuatro was their attempt at a Black Album .

Solid record but unfortunately didn’t do very well

Grunge killed the market for thrash more so than for hair metal.
Hair bands had at least the option to get softer, put out ballad singles and capture more of the "adult" market.
Thrash had nowhere to go after grunge became the dominating genre of rock music for teenagers.

Grunge pulled the pants down on the supposedly "real", "non-elitist" and "non-image" thrashers - it was just as codified and more pretentious than hair metal with its battle vests and talk about "poser" fans and whatever.

You just explained Grunge pretty well there. It never ceases to amaze me how people can't see what a complete pose it was... complete with silly things like wearing T-shirts on Rolling Stone magazine saying how much corporate magazines suck, yet posing for them.

This is what usually happens. The early bands are doing their own thing or at least believe they do, the 2nd and 3rd generations are just buying the starter kit for a thrash, grunge or hair band. Thrash ironically became an empty pose faster and more obviously than say grunge or hair metal because their thing was "not to be a poser" and everyone who didn't conform was labeled as such.

[Billy Jack]

In a weird way I think GnR put the double whammy on the hair metal scene. Appetite blew doors off with something edgy fresh and different. But, then they released the UYI albums that helped cement the idea they were apart of the very scene they put on notice. Yeah, those albums were huge but they didn't age well and I & II is the reason you can make an argument that GnR is/was a Hair Metal Band. By '93 that bloated cheesy Rockstar persona ushered in the anti-rockstar movement, aka Grunge. I don't know, I'm sure somebody might fact check me on this.

[Love_Industry]

I & II is the reason you can make an argument that GnR is/was a Hair Metal Band. By '93 that bloated cheesy Rockstar persona ushered in the anti-rockstar movement, aka Grunge.

The second part is true but GnR were more of a hair band before UYI. With UYI they tried to be an iconic rock band like the Stones or Queen, AFD came out of the same post-Ratt and Mötley, Sunset Strip hairband scene as all the Poisons, Jetboys, LA Guns and Warrants.