HueyRamone wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 7:44 pm
Odd take. Not sure what you mean by "dorks".
Nothin to do with how they look. The difference between VH and Roth's solo band is pretty much the difference between the guys on the sunset strip who were writing songs to pack clubs on a Saturday night and the guys at MIT learning how to orchestrate their instrumental guitar stuff.
They come from different friggin' planets.
That stuff from the later has it's place and if you're into it, more power to you. I would rather drive in silence for hours than sit through an album by Vai, Satriani, Yngwie, Racer X, etc. The stuff Vai and company did on EEAS/Skyscraper was not good rock and roll and it dragged Roth down to my ears. The best thing they did was "Just Like Paradise", which Vai didn't write and even fought against including. Tells me all I need to know.
HueyRamone wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 7:44 pm
I have heard people say he wasnt right for Whitesnake, but I never listened to that album./
All the talent in the world, but odd fit. Same reason why Satch doesn't quite nail Eddie's stuff doing BOBW.
There's such a thing as being "too" technical when the base of the music is blues rock.
Vai was fine for what Roth was going for at the time, which was a more Pop/Hair metal styling, but John 5 does a better job of getting a feeling closer to Eddie, which is the only reason why John works at all in Motley.
MurrayFiend wrote:Shit, deathcurse, you sure know how to make an exit.
DangerZone wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 10:34 am
there’s some silly stuff in this thread.
Vai was top of the line from eat em & smile, slip of the tongue & passion/warfare
Roth wanted a band that could both be a continuation of and outdo classic VH and Vai and Sheehan were the best choices to do that at the time. Probably Bissonette too even if he was only known then as a jazz drummer.
The EEAS-Skyscraper tours had a band feel with Vai almost as high profile as Roth (or Eddie in classic VH) but on ALAE and on it was Roth with what seemed like a bunch of anonymous hired guns.
That said, the Vai/Roth songwriting partnership didn't come up with many songs that were up there with the best VH songs. They were better at songs that didn't try to be Van Halen... Damn Good, Ladies Nite in Buffalo, Skyscraper...
Chip Z'Hoy wrote: ↑
LI is a gentleman and scholar but that “Parasite” take is wild!
I thought I was going to be a purist in 1985 until I heard and saw Van Hagar and DLR.
I liked EEAS but I loved 5150. I felt both Skyscraper and OU812 fell a little flat
at the time but I’ve grown to love them both. F*CK and ALAE is where it became clear Dave was out of his league and was maybe all smoke and mirrors to begin with. He couldn’t compete. Cracks were showing before that. Losing Sheehan was a big blow imo. Mr Big gets alot of shit on here but I Iiked them better than most of Dave’s solo career.
In hind sight Dave sort of jumped the shark in 1984 maybe 1983 at the US Fest.
His peak for me was the Fair Warning tour. Had he kept that type of focus, clarity and precision going, choosing to leave the camp and cheese at home in the closet and fridge, I woulda been a fan for life.
I’m not sure anyone beats VH from 1978 to 1981. They were unf*ckable with. After that, I’d rather be a Van Hagar fan. As much as I love Diver Down that’s where Dave’s whole bit and routine starts to grate on my last nerve. Even then, I still found a few bright spots in his career post FW.
1984 is a great album. But Crazy From The Heat hasn’t aged well for me at all.
Roth's solo albums contain some of my favourite and least favourite music from the era. They can be as terrible as they are brilliant. For every Damn Good, Hina, Ladies Night In Buffalo and Big Trouble, you have to tolerate a Hot Dog and A Shake, I'm Easy or Two Fools A Minute.
The highs are worth it overall but don't really come close to classic VH, but then not much does.
Tommy2Tone84 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 4:24 am
In hind sight Dave sort of jumped the shark in 1984 maybe 1983 at the US Fest.
His peak for me was the Fair Warning tour. Had he kept that type of focus, clarity and precision going, choosing to leave the camp and cheese at home in the closet and fridge, I woulda been a fan for life.
I wish we could get a dvd or at least a live album from the FW or WACF tours. I remember from the VHML that those who saw those tours said they were legendary and the audience bootlegs I've heard would support that. But the only professional live recordings available are the three songs from Oakland 81...
Note to self - those VHML discussions around 1995 were only 15 years after the WACF tour. Now 1995 is 30 years ago....
Chip Z'Hoy wrote: ↑
LI is a gentleman and scholar but that “Parasite” take is wild!
Whatever Happened To… wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 4:27 am
Roth's solo albums contain some of my favourite and least favourite music from the era. They can be as terrible as they are brilliant. For every Damn Good, Hina, Ladies Night In Buffalo and Big Trouble, you have to tolerate a Hot Dog and A Shake, I'm Easy or Two Fools A Minute.
The highs are worth it overall but don't really come close to classic VH, but then not much does.
This is a good point. I won't call Roth a genius, but he has "genius tendencies", let's say, and sometimes those ideas translate to everyone, and then other times, it's something that only makes sense to him, and it's lost on mostly everyone else.
When he was working in Van Halen, there were people that kept some of that in check, Eddie for one, but also Ted Templeman and Noel Monk. As soon as he was freed from those restrictions, you started to see more of those out there ideas on his part.
Honestly, it's not exactly the same, but the same thing happened with Eddie on VHIII.
MurrayFiend wrote:Shit, deathcurse, you sure know how to make an exit.
Remember, his first 2 solo hits were over the top covers of California Girls and Just a Gigolo. So his solo career had a lot more than classic rock. I like when he went in that direction. Sensible Shoes, Tell the Truth, Bad Habits and Ice Cream Man (bonus tracks on the Diamond Dave album)
And of course he had some great rock songs too.
So I’m cool with his solo stuff but it’s not a replacement for classic VH.
"You want Don Juan DeMarco, the world's greatest lover, to talk to you? What do you know of great love?"
FreddyFender wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:31 am
Roth's first choice for guitar in his solo band was Steve Stevens, who declined the gig.
I think that would have been much better. But we'll never know.
Weird that Stevens thought DLR fresh off of VH wasnt a good enough gig, but Vince Neil in the Grunge era was. Was Stevens still in Billy Idol when Rothe asked him?
LAglamrocker wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:07 pm
You can tell Sleek had nothing to do with this…thats why it’s so entertaining
FreddyFender wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:31 am
Roth's first choice for guitar in his solo band was Steve Stevens, who declined the gig.
I think that would have been much better. But we'll never know.
Weird that Stevens thought DLR fresh off of VH wasnt a good enough gig, but Vince Neil in the Grunge era was. Was Stevens still in Billy Idol when Rothe asked him?
Oh yeah. They had recorded but not released Whiplash Smile, so he and Idol were on still top of the world coming off Rebel Yell.
He joined Vince years later when he was washed up - he'd been out of Idol's group for years and did a trainwreck project with Michael Monroe (Jerusalem Slim) that cost a shitload of money and did nothin'.
FreddyFender wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:31 am
Roth's first choice for guitar in his solo band was Steve Stevens, who declined the gig.
I think that would have been much better. But we'll never know.
Weird that Stevens thought DLR fresh off of VH wasnt a good enough gig, but Vince Neil in the Grunge era was. Was Stevens still in Billy Idol when Rothe asked him?
Oh yeah. They had recorded but not released Whiplash Smile, so he and Idol were on still top of the world coming off Rebel Yell.
He joined Vince years later when he was washed up - he'd been out of Idol's group for years and did a trainwreck project with Michael Monroe (Jerusalem Slim) that cost a shitload of money and did nothin'.
Not only that, but Idol was pretty messed up at the time. Idol didn't get his shit together until 1994 after an OD, and when that happened, Steve went back to Billy, and Vince grabbed recent board favorite, Brent Woods.
MurrayFiend wrote:Shit, deathcurse, you sure know how to make an exit.
I do. There is some hit-and-miss, but I like the good stuff.
1) Eat Em and Smile - truly great although a few of the songs (like B&G) don't work well. That band had flash like Van Halen but truly had their own sound and chemistry, and a great groove. Superb and really unique.
2) Skyscraper - a bit of a letdown in that it was no longer so athletic and seems to rely on Brett Tuggle so much that it crowed out the band. Feel wasn't there but the aVi-like "proggy" songs like the title track worked. I really enjoy about 2/3 of this album. DG, Hina, Bottom Line, Knucklebones all work for me. Just Like Paradise is garbage. I kind of like Stand Up, but it doesn't fit well with the rest of the material.
3) Your Filthy Little Mouth - it doesn't work when it tries to rock, but I really enjoyed the other material, with Sunburn and the country song working really well. It was a different Roth and more "pretty good" than great. Mississippi Power needed to be on the album.
4) A Little Ain't Enough - this was a big disappointment. We know why there isn't so much Becker on this, but the big Bob Rock drums aren't right for this record, and the songs that try to be "Big Rock" just don't work well, like the boring title track. That made two albums in a row with the wrong first single. But Roth discovered some new things (for him) on Hammerhead Shark, Tell the Truth, and Sensible Shoes. And I though the lyrics made Drop in the Bucket really solid.
5) The John 5 album - not formally released as such, but this is pretty good. At this age, I can take a more scaled-back DLR, and a lot of the lyrics work. Wish this would get a vinyl release. Also from that period, his online-only "One Piece Thermomolded Country Plastic Chair" is the best of his later songs.
6) DLR Band - it was nice hearing Dave really trying to rock again, but a lot of the songs just weren't very good. Only King the Hill and WaWazAt (and maybe Counterblast) scored for me among those rockers, but again the best track was a softer one, Black Sand.
7) Diamond Dave - I'm glad he did this as we finally got the pretty cool remake of Ice Cream Man (he discussed in his book) and Bad Habits, which fits well with CFTH. But the other more rock-type covers mostly don't work. They are neither horrible nor very good.
The original Van Halen is one of the greatest rock bands in history. Definitely prefer Dave over Sammy by a mile.
However, only Dave's first two solo albums are worthwhile, and they both pale in comparison to his Van Halen albums.
There's some fun stuff on them, but it's nowhere near what Van Halen was with Dave in the band.
And 5150 is better than both of 'em.
Wiseacre wrote:
Listen, I am 100% self-taught and don’t want to sound arrogant, but Ezrin himself would probably shake my fucking hand for how I managed to put that all together. Anyone who knows anything about music would know that.
BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:38 am
How was Paradise the wrong single for Skyscraper? It was all over the radio and mtv! The problem with that album is that that’s the only song that would work as a single. Stand Up is too weird and Damn Good isn’t commercial enough. Same with the title track. Maybe Knucklebones or Perfect Timing would have worked with the right videos? There are very few rockers on that album so hardly anything to choose from.
You hear a lotta wacky takes on this forum.
Outside of the Beach Boys cover, Roth's only top-ten hit was "garbage" and the wrong choice for a single? That one's up there.
Nothin' Steve Vai and Roth wrote together hit the top-10. Yankee Rose was the only thing that even hit the top 40. Hell, VH only had a few top-10 hits across both singers. Without Tuggle, Skyscraper doesn't even go gold.
Nothin' Steve Vai and Roth wrote together hit the top-10. Yankee Rose was the only thing that even hit the top 40. Hell, VH only had a few top-10 hits across both singers.
Doesn't matter. From that era, they wrote the good songs. The others were . . . not. We all know the charts were total BS and subject to massive payola.
BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:38 am
How was Paradise the wrong single for Skyscraper? It was all over the radio and mtv!
And it still wasn't any good. The "people" were just how the little bit of payola that WB put on that album. I was a high school senior at the time, right in the target demographic. Whole school though the song was mediocre and "not as good as EEAS." I remember everyone feeling the same about Van Halen's "BNB." Best from the Skyscraper album was the title track and Damn Good and Hina. But for a single, Knucklebones or Hina might have been the best starters.
Just Like Paradise has wayyyy more plays than California Girls, Yankee Rose, and any other Roth song on Spotify and Youtube.
Why are people still listening to that song more than his others, 30 years later?? I thought your classmates settled the matter! Sludge Streaming Payola???
I’m always thought it was a giant mistake not releasing It’s Showtime as the lead single for ALAE. That’s about as “Van Halen” sounding as he got solo. Big fan of that whole album. It was totally downhill for Dave after that and I’m a pretty big apologist.
BernieTaupson wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:38 am
How was Paradise the wrong single for Skyscraper? It was all over the radio and mtv!
And it still wasn't any good. The "people" were just how the little bit of payola that WB put on that album. I was a high school senior at the time, right in the target demographic. Whole school though the song was mediocre and "not as good as EEAS." I remember everyone feeling the same about Van Halen's "BNB." Best from the Skyscraper album was the title track and Damn Good and Hina. But for a single, Knucklebones or Hina might have been the best starters.
You’re nuts. And Hina would have sank like a stone as a single.
But it's a better song - by leaps and bounds. It's not even close. Paradise is for the philistines.
FreddyFender wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:10 pm
Just Like Paradise has wayyyy more plays than California Girls, Yankee Rose, and any other Roth song on Spotify and Youtube.
Why are people still listening to that song more than his others, 30 years later?? I thought your classmates settled the matter! Sludge Streaming Payola???
Because people are fools. Yes, including most here, where it's easily two fools a minute, if not even more.
