KISS - Take It Off

[Tommy2Tone84]

Great melodic, heavy rock song. "Revenge" took the place of "Destroyer" as my favorite KISS lp. Saw the club tour and arena tour and both were great. That was the tightest KISS lineup. Everyone great on their instruments. Paul's vocals were excellent on the lp and in concert.

Nothing but historical revision and delusions of grandeur by a small percentage of fans. Outside of Unholy, which Gene couldn’t sing live, it’s typical, piss poor songwriting with cheeseball, cliche lyrics. The only thing the lp has going for it is a sober Bob Ezrin.

The tour was the second worst tour from 1983-1993. Second only to the 10th Anniversary. Revenge only went 77 shows compared to Hot In The Shade’s 123 shows, Crazy Night’s 129, Animalize’s 119. Both Lick It Up and Asylum had 94 and 91, respectively. That Revenge lineup went from playing mostly empty arenas to playing conference rooms in Holiday Inns.

Singer’s playing, while technical at times, was always flat, limp, and just plain blah. The longer he was in the band the worse he got and he wasn’t all that great to begin with.

KISS (Paul/Gene/Bruce/Eric Singer) played for the people who attended. Whether the venue was sold out or half-filled, they showed up and played for the people who spent their time and money to go see them. Tightest KISS lineup and every member giving their A game.

Criss and Carr (whom I like) could never touch Singer. Plus, Singer was the best drumming singer. Best voice of the three drummers and second to Paul (in Paul's prime). Since Paul started having health issues with his vocal cords, Eric became KISS' best vocalist.

I saw the "Revenge" club and arena tours. Sounds like you saw neither. I also attended the official KISS Konvention. Another great thing they did. Sounds like you didn't go to that either.

You sound like you jumped on the bandwagon in 1996. Funny how KISS, with the original lineup, pretty much crashed and burned (cd struggled to reach gold and the tour was cut short) during the "Psycho Circus" era. All of the people who came out of the woodwork on the "Alive/Worldwide" tour went back into hiding during the PC era. Reason? KISS sucked. That is, their drummer and lead guitarist sucked. Gene and Ace (full blown alcoholic and drug addict) were fat and disinterested. Paul was the only one who showed up night after night and put effort into the shows. Same goes for the "Farewell" tour.

At KISS "Unplugged" you had a top-rated drummer stage left and a hack stage right. The hack couldn't even play the simple beat in "2000 Man". Paul had to get him in time.

Eric Singer and the Revenge lineup could never touch the original band no matter how much Paul tried to convince us otherwise in the press at the time. Baton Rouge 1974, Winterland 1975, Tulsa 1975, Detroit 1976, Memphis 1976, Tokyo 1977, The Great Western Forum 1977, Largo 1977. The Revenge lineup can’t touch any of that. You’re such an Eric Singer apologist, it sounds like you didn’t discover the band until 1992.

The band always played for the fans who attended. It didn’t matter what year or tour. They did that when Vinnie and Mark were in the band.

Thank you for proving my original point about historical revision and showing your bias toward Eric Singer. Eric Singer is by far the least best singer of the three drummers. Peter is by far the best. Neither Eric’s had distinct voices but I will always prefer Carr’s voice and drumming to Eric Singer’s. Singer can be as technical as he wants, I never found his drumming to be mind blowing or memorable. I am only a fan of his time in the band for one reason, and one reason only, Bruce Kulick. Same with Vinnie and Mark. I’m not a fan of either one and I certainly don’t think Vinnie “saved” KISS. The only reason I kept going was because of Eric Carr. Gene has always credited Eric Carr. I’ve never heard him praise or credit Eric Singer the way he does Carr.

I wasn’t able to attend the Revenge tour. Just as I wasn’t able to attend the Unmasked, Lick it Up, Animalize or Asylum tours. The Holiday Inn tour I chose not to attend.

Eric Singer fans can spin the Holiday Inn Express tour any way they want. I always found it bizarre that Paul and Gene always had to book arena tours no matter how abysmal the ticket sales and turn outs were. They would never even think of booking a theater tour when the demand or lack of demand necessitated it like it did on the Tenth Anniversary and Revenge tours. But they gladly booked a tour of Holiday Inns and spun it into “this is something special.” I was embarrassed at the time. I would have gladly taken a theater tour with deep cuts littered throughout the setlist. I chose to see the Bad Boys tour instead. Had Eric Carr lived and still been in the band, I would have spent the dough, gas and travel time to see the Holiday Inn tour. Eric Singer’s presence was enough of a turn off to stay home.

I saw the Carr/Kulick lineup twice and both times they brought their A Game even if Paul brought a mediocre setlist to the Crazy Nights tour. That was his pattern until HITS. He didn’t bring it on Asylum either. He can blame Gene all he wants but I think some of those 80s songs he couldn’t sing for a whole tour. Hence little to no I’ve Had Enough, Get All You Can Take, King of the Mountain, Who Wants To Be Lonely and Turn On The Night or maybe Paul was just lazy.

I’ve been a fan since the late 70s. I saw the band a half a dozen times over the years. At times it was a struggle. I never liked Vinnie or Mark. I felt they were both poor choices and very wrong for the band. Bruce was the right fit. He was always a top notch player and nothing but a pro. If not him, somebody as good and better than two selfish, self-absorbed wankers like Vinnie and Mark.

The tours I wish I had been able to see are every tour from 1974 to 1979 even when Peter was at his worst in 1979. Unmasked, Animalize with Bruce and Asylum. Other than that, I’m good.

You can keep Eric Singer. I’ll take Criss and Carr every day and thrice on Sunday.

[Mister Freeze]

I look forward to six pages on "Rise to It."

[NeonKnite]

Eric Singer and the Revenge lineup could never touch the original band no matter how much Paul tried to convince us otherwise in the press at the time. Baton Rouge 1974, Winterland 1975, Tulsa 1975, Detroit 1976, Memphis 1976, Tokyo 1977, The Great Western Forum 1977, Largo 1977.

100%

You can keep Eric Singer. I’ll take Criss and Carr every day and thrice on Sunday.

Preach it brother.

[Stinky McFister]

I look forward to six pages on "Rise to It."

[risingfarce]

KISS did excellent without him.

Singer > Carr > Criss (far in last place)

Actually, they didn't do all that well without him. As evidenced by the fact that he was brought back multiple times and they spent the last 20 years aping his era while telling their drummer to play more like him and impersonate him.

Singer is by far the worst of the the three. Drum machines have more personality in their playing. Carr was a great power drummer and the far more interesting of the two Erics, but Peter gave Kiss their sound and they never came close to sounding as good or as unique without him.

The original Kiss is a perfect example of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Eric Singer was the KISS drummer on KISS' longest (250 dates) and most successful tour, not Criss.

Musically, Criss isn't talented enough to carry Singer's and Carr's drumsticks.

Criss was brought back, then fired and replaced by a real drummer each time.

Singer has stated that Gene and Paul never dictated how he was to play the material. Singer made the decisions, whether to hot rod the songs or to play them like the studio versions. He had no issues playing in either fashion. Always top notch. Always a professional. Always a great bandmate.

You don't need to like Singer or his playing, but it's evident you're uneducated when it comes to musical talent. Saying Criss is a great drummer is ridiculous. The guy couldn't keep time. Terrible right foot. Never consistent. Sloppy right hand. Going in and out of tempo, because he was a terrible timekeeper.

KISS was never tighter than the "Revenge" lineup.

[risingfarce]

Nothing but historical revision and delusions of grandeur by a small percentage of fans. Outside of Unholy, which Gene couldn’t sing live, it’s typical, piss poor songwriting with cheeseball, cliche lyrics. The only thing the lp has going for it is a sober Bob Ezrin.

The tour was the second worst tour from 1983-1993. Second only to the 10th Anniversary. Revenge only went 77 shows compared to Hot In The Shade’s 123 shows, Crazy Night’s 129, Animalize’s 119. Both Lick It Up and Asylum had 94 and 91, respectively. That Revenge lineup went from playing mostly empty arenas to playing conference rooms in Holiday Inns.

Singer’s playing, while technical at times, was always flat, limp, and just plain blah. The longer he was in the band the worse he got and he wasn’t all that great to begin with.

KISS (Paul/Gene/Bruce/Eric Singer) played for the people who attended. Whether the venue was sold out or half-filled, they showed up and played for the people who spent their time and money to go see them. Tightest KISS lineup and every member giving their A game.

Criss and Carr (whom I like) could never touch Singer. Plus, Singer was the best drumming singer. Best voice of the three drummers and second to Paul (in Paul's prime). Since Paul started having health issues with his vocal cords, Eric became KISS' best vocalist.

I saw the "Revenge" club and arena tours. Sounds like you saw neither. I also attended the official KISS Konvention. Another great thing they did. Sounds like you didn't go to that either.

You sound like you jumped on the bandwagon in 1996. Funny how KISS, with the original lineup, pretty much crashed and burned (cd struggled to reach gold and the tour was cut short) during the "Psycho Circus" era. All of the people who came out of the woodwork on the "Alive/Worldwide" tour went back into hiding during the PC era. Reason? KISS sucked. That is, their drummer and lead guitarist sucked. Gene and Ace (full blown alcoholic and drug addict) were fat and disinterested. Paul was the only one who showed up night after night and put effort into the shows. Same goes for the "Farewell" tour.

At KISS "Unplugged" you had a top-rated drummer stage left and a hack stage right. The hack couldn't even play the simple beat in "2000 Man". Paul had to get him in time.

Eric Singer and the Revenge lineup could never touch the original band no matter how much Paul tried to convince us otherwise in the press at the time. Baton Rouge 1974, Winterland 1975, Tulsa 1975, Detroit 1976, Memphis 1976, Tokyo 1977, The Great Western Forum 1977, Largo 1977. The Revenge lineup can’t touch any of that. You’re such an Eric Singer apologist, it sounds like you didn’t discover the band until 1992.

The band always played for the fans who attended. It didn’t matter what year or tour. They did that when Vinnie and Mark were in the band.

Thank you for proving my original point about historical revision and showing your bias toward Eric Singer. Eric Singer is by far the least best singer of the three drummers. Peter is by far the best. Neither Eric’s had distinct voices but I will always prefer Carr’s voice and drumming to Eric Singer’s. Singer can be as technical as he wants, I never found his drumming to be mind blowing or memorable. I am only a fan of his time in the band for one reason, and one reason only, Bruce Kulick. Same with Vinnie and Mark. I’m not a fan of either one and I certainly don’t think Vinnie “saved” KISS. The only reason I kept going was because of Eric Carr. Gene has always credited Eric Carr. I’ve never heard him praise or credit Eric Singer the way he does Carr.

I wasn’t able to attend the Revenge tour. Just as I wasn’t able to attend the Unmasked, Lick it Up, Animalize or Asylum tours. The Holiday Inn tour I chose not to attend.

Eric Singer fans can spin the Holiday Inn Express tour any way they want. I always found it bizarre that Paul and Gene always had to book arena tours no matter how abysmal the ticket sales and turn outs were. They would never even think of booking a theater tour when the demand or lack of demand necessitated it like it did on the Tenth Anniversary and Revenge tours. But they gladly booked a tour of Holiday Inns and spun it into “this is something special.” I was embarrassed at the time. I would have gladly taken a theater tour with deep cuts littered throughout the setlist. I chose to see the Bad Boys tour instead. Had Eric Carr lived and still been in the band, I would have spent the dough, gas and travel time to see the Holiday Inn tour. Eric Singer’s presence was enough of a turn off to stay home.

I saw the Carr/Kulick lineup twice and both times they brought their A Game even if Paul brought a mediocre setlist to the Crazy Nights tour. That was his pattern until HITS. He didn’t bring it on Asylum either. He can blame Gene all he wants but I think some of those 80s songs he couldn’t sing for a whole tour. Hence little to no I’ve Had Enough, Get All You Can Take, King of the Mountain, Who Wants To Be Lonely and Turn On The Night or maybe Paul was just lazy.

I’ve been a fan since the late 70s. I saw the band a half a dozen times over the years. At times it was a struggle. I never liked Vinnie or Mark. I felt they were both poor choices and very wrong for the band. Bruce was the right fit. He was always a top notch player and nothing but a pro. If not him, somebody as good and better than two selfish, self-absorbed wankers like Vinnie and Mark.

The tours I wish I had been able to see are every tour from 1974 to 1979 even when Peter was at his worst in 1979. Unmasked, Animalize with Bruce and Asylum. Other than that, I’m good.

You can keep Eric Singer. I’ll take Criss and Carr every day and thrice on Sunday.

The original lineup (70s version) was never at the level that the "Revenge" lineup was at. They weren't even at the level of the Singer/Thayer lineup. The only issues with the Singer/Thayer lineup was Paul's voice. The band was tight musically. Paul's medical issues with his vocal cords hurt that lineup.

I discovered the band in 1976. Bought "Destroyer" in 1977. The "Revenge" lineup buried the original lineup and all other lineups. That's what happens when the musicians are top notch professionals.

Not only was Peter a shitty drummer (couldn't keep time; shitty right foot; sloppy), but he was a shitty singer, too. Off key and couldn't hold a note to save his life.

You weren't able to attend the "Revenge" tour. I did.

You chose to not attend the Konvention tour. I did.

So, you have no firsthand knowledge of how well that lineup played.

KISS went from being the best lineup they ever had been to hiring two drunk, drug addicted has beens. 1996 to 2000 was KISS at its lowest point musically. The band, sans Paul, sucked. To you it's about makeup and outfits. To me it's always been about the music.

[NeonKnite]

KISS did excellent without him.

Singer > Carr > Criss (far in last place)

Actually, they didn't do all that well without him. As evidenced by the fact that he was brought back multiple times and they spent the last 20 years aping his era while telling their drummer to play more like him and impersonate him.

Singer is by far the worst of the the three. Drum machines have more personality in their playing. Carr was a great power drummer and the far more interesting of the two Erics, but Peter gave Kiss their sound and they never came close to sounding as good or as unique without him.

The original Kiss is a perfect example of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Eric Singer was the KISS drummer on KISS' longest (250 dates) and most successful tour, not Criss.

Musically, Criss isn't talented enough to carry Singer's and Carr's drumsticks.

Criss was brought back, then fired and replaced by a real drummer each time.

Singer has stated that Gene and Paul never dictated how he was to play the material. Singer made the decisions, whether to hot rod the songs or to play them like the studio versions. He had no issues playing in either fashion. Always top notch. Always a professional. Always a great bandmate.

You don't need to like Singer or his playing, but it's evident you're uneducated when it comes to musical talent. Saying Criss is a great drummer is ridiculous. The guy couldn't keep time. Terrible right foot. Never consistent. Sloppy right hand. Going in and out of tempo, because he was a terrible timekeeper.

KISS was never tighter than the "Revenge" lineup.

Tell us you became a fan in 1992, without telling us.

Peter Criss is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Eric Singer is not, and never will be.

Game. Set. Match.

I have spoken.

[DangerZone]

KISS (Paul/Gene/Bruce/Eric Singer) played for the people who attended. Whether the venue was sold out or half-filled, they showed up and played for the people who spent their time and money to go see them. Tightest KISS lineup and every member giving their A game.

Criss and Carr (whom I like) could never touch Singer. Plus, Singer was the best drumming singer. Best voice of the three drummers and second to Paul (in Paul's prime). Since Paul started having health issues with his vocal cords, Eric became KISS' best vocalist.

I saw the "Revenge" club and arena tours. Sounds like you saw neither. I also attended the official KISS Konvention. Another great thing they did. Sounds like you didn't go to that either.

You sound like you jumped on the bandwagon in 1996. Funny how KISS, with the original lineup, pretty much crashed and burned (cd struggled to reach gold and the tour was cut short) during the "Psycho Circus" era. All of the people who came out of the woodwork on the "Alive/Worldwide" tour went back into hiding during the PC era. Reason? KISS sucked. That is, their drummer and lead guitarist sucked. Gene and Ace (full blown alcoholic and drug addict) were fat and disinterested. Paul was the only one who showed up night after night and put effort into the shows. Same goes for the "Farewell" tour.

At KISS "Unplugged" you had a top-rated drummer stage left and a hack stage right. The hack couldn't even play the simple beat in "2000 Man". Paul had to get him in time.

Eric Singer and the Revenge lineup could never touch the original band no matter how much Paul tried to convince us otherwise in the press at the time. Baton Rouge 1974, Winterland 1975, Tulsa 1975, Detroit 1976, Memphis 1976, Tokyo 1977, The Great Western Forum 1977, Largo 1977. The Revenge lineup can’t touch any of that. You’re such an Eric Singer apologist, it sounds like you didn’t discover the band until 1992.

The band always played for the fans who attended. It didn’t matter what year or tour. They did that when Vinnie and Mark were in the band.

Thank you for proving my original point about historical revision and showing your bias toward Eric Singer. Eric Singer is by far the least best singer of the three drummers. Peter is by far the best. Neither Eric’s had distinct voices but I will always prefer Carr’s voice and drumming to Eric Singer’s. Singer can be as technical as he wants, I never found his drumming to be mind blowing or memorable. I am only a fan of his time in the band for one reason, and one reason only, Bruce Kulick. Same with Vinnie and Mark. I’m not a fan of either one and I certainly don’t think Vinnie “saved” KISS. The only reason I kept going was because of Eric Carr. Gene has always credited Eric Carr. I’ve never heard him praise or credit Eric Singer the way he does Carr.

I wasn’t able to attend the Revenge tour. Just as I wasn’t able to attend the Unmasked, Lick it Up, Animalize or Asylum tours. The Holiday Inn tour I chose not to attend.

Eric Singer fans can spin the Holiday Inn Express tour any way they want. I always found it bizarre that Paul and Gene always had to book arena tours no matter how abysmal the ticket sales and turn outs were. They would never even think of booking a theater tour when the demand or lack of demand necessitated it like it did on the Tenth Anniversary and Revenge tours. But they gladly booked a tour of Holiday Inns and spun it into “this is something special.” I was embarrassed at the time. I would have gladly taken a theater tour with deep cuts littered throughout the setlist. I chose to see the Bad Boys tour instead. Had Eric Carr lived and still been in the band, I would have spent the dough, gas and travel time to see the Holiday Inn tour. Eric Singer’s presence was enough of a turn off to stay home.

I saw the Carr/Kulick lineup twice and both times they brought their A Game even if Paul brought a mediocre setlist to the Crazy Nights tour. That was his pattern until HITS. He didn’t bring it on Asylum either. He can blame Gene all he wants but I think some of those 80s songs he couldn’t sing for a whole tour. Hence little to no I’ve Had Enough, Get All You Can Take, King of the Mountain, Who Wants To Be Lonely and Turn On The Night or maybe Paul was just lazy.

I’ve been a fan since the late 70s. I saw the band a half a dozen times over the years. At times it was a struggle. I never liked Vinnie or Mark. I felt they were both poor choices and very wrong for the band. Bruce was the right fit. He was always a top notch player and nothing but a pro. If not him, somebody as good and better than two selfish, self-absorbed wankers like Vinnie and Mark.

The tours I wish I had been able to see are every tour from 1974 to 1979 even when Peter was at his worst in 1979. Unmasked, Animalize with Bruce and Asylum. Other than that, I’m good.

You can keep Eric Singer. I’ll take Criss and Carr every day and thrice on Sunday.

The original lineup (70s version) was never at the level that the "Revenge" lineup was at. They weren't even at the level of the Singer/Thayer lineup. The only issues with the Singer/Thayer lineup was Paul's voice. The band was tight musically. Paul's medical issues with his vocal cords hurt that lineup.

I discovered the band in 1976. Bought "Destroyer" in 1977. The "Revenge" lineup buried the original lineup and all other lineups. That's what happens when the musicians are top notch professionals.

Not only was Peter a shitty drummer (couldn't keep time; shitty right foot; sloppy), but he was a shitty singer, too. Off key and couldn't hold a note to save his life.

You weren't able to attend the "Revenge" tour. I did.

You chose to not attend the Konvention tour. I did.

So, you have no firsthand knowledge of how well that lineup played.

KISS went from being the best lineup they ever had been to hiring two drunk, drug addicted has beens. 1996 to 2000 was KISS at its lowest point musically. The band, sans Paul, sucked. To you it's about makeup and outfits. To me it's always been about the music.

from what I understand, Eric Singer had a hard time playing Peter’s parts and they had to bring in some Valentine guy to show him.
But it was too hard to play the drums properly & sing soulful like Peter so they axed all the Peter songs except Beth, their biggest hit

[NeonKnite]

from what I understand, Eric Singer had a hard time playing Peter’s parts and they had to bring in some Valentine guy to show him.
But it was too hard to play the drums properly & sing soulful like Peter so they axed all the Peter songs except Beth, their biggest hit

Eric Singer is a master of pretending to play piano.

Actually, he can't even pretend to play the piano convincingly if you saw the videos.

[DangerZone]

from what I understand, Eric Singer had a hard time playing Peter’s parts and they had to bring in some Valentine guy to show him.
But it was too hard to play the drums properly & sing soulful like Peter so they axed all the Peter songs except Beth, their biggest hit

Eric Singer is a master of pretending to play piano.

Actually, he can't even pretend to play the piano convincingly if you saw the videos.

It was like an Austin Powers skit

[Tommy2Tone84]

KISS did excellent without him.

Singer > Carr > Criss (far in last place)

Actually, they didn't do all that well without him. As evidenced by the fact that he was brought back multiple times and they spent the last 20 years aping his era while telling their drummer to play more like him and impersonate him.

Singer is by far the worst of the the three. Drum machines have more personality in their playing. Carr was a great power drummer and the far more interesting of the two Erics, but Peter gave Kiss their sound and they never came close to sounding as good or as unique without him.

The original Kiss is a perfect example of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Eric Singer was the KISS drummer on KISS' longest (250 dates) and most successful tour, not Criss.

Musically, Criss isn't talented enough to carry Singer's and Carr's drumsticks.

Criss was brought back, then fired and replaced by a real drummer each time.

Singer has stated that Gene and Paul never dictated how he was to play the material. Singer made the decisions, whether to hot rod the songs or to play them like the studio versions. He had no issues playing in either fashion. Always top notch. Always a professional. Always a great bandmate.

You don't need to like Singer or his playing, but it's evident you're uneducated when it comes to musical talent. Saying Criss is a great drummer is ridiculous. The guy couldn't keep time. Terrible right foot. Never consistent. Sloppy right hand. Going in and out of tempo, because he was a terrible timekeeper.

KISS was never tighter than the "Revenge" lineup.

You’re really in love with Eric Singer. Is it the blonde hair? Singer was king of the scabs whose playing was blaher than blah. I never loved his drumming. He lacked something. Maybe it was a personality? Maybe it was a originality? Maybe it was a soul? Eric Singer is the musical equivalent of a loaf of Wonder Bread. I have many favorite drummers, many of whom wouldn’t be caught playing for Gene and Paul, who I would’ve rather saw and heard play for KISS after the passing of Eric Carr.

I saw Carr twice. I saw Criss twice and I saw Singer twice. You can keep Singer. I’ll take the original band and any lineup with Carr including the three shows with Methmouth Norton on the Animalize tour. I’d rather see Criss in 1979 at his worst than Singer at his best. He’s that f*cking blah.

KISS essentially ended for me with the death of Eric Carr. Did I still buy Revenge, Xtreme Closeup, COS, Unplugged, Psycho Circus, attend the Reunion and first Farewell tour etc? Yes, but it wasn’t the same and was never going to be the same. KISS for me, for better and at times, worse was 1974 to 1990. After that it’s just a relic of something great that once was.

I got a good laugh when Eric Singer got severely butthurt over the Reunion and Gene giving Singer full credit for being the instigator of it. When he had no problems replacing Eric Carr while Eric Carr was laying in a hospital bed dying from a terminal condition.

[Tommy2Tone84]

Actually, they didn't do all that well without him. As evidenced by the fact that he was brought back multiple times and they spent the last 20 years aping his era while telling their drummer to play more like him and impersonate him.

Singer is by far the worst of the the three. Drum machines have more personality in their playing. Carr was a great power drummer and the far more interesting of the two Erics, but Peter gave Kiss their sound and they never came close to sounding as good or as unique without him.

The original Kiss is a perfect example of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Eric Singer was the KISS drummer on KISS' longest (250 dates) and most successful tour, not Criss.

Musically, Criss isn't talented enough to carry Singer's and Carr's drumsticks.

Criss was brought back, then fired and replaced by a real drummer each time.

Singer has stated that Gene and Paul never dictated how he was to play the material. Singer made the decisions, whether to hot rod the songs or to play them like the studio versions. He had no issues playing in either fashion. Always top notch. Always a professional. Always a great bandmate.

You don't need to like Singer or his playing, but it's evident you're uneducated when it comes to musical talent. Saying Criss is a great drummer is ridiculous. The guy couldn't keep time. Terrible right foot. Never consistent. Sloppy right hand. Going in and out of tempo, because he was a terrible timekeeper.

KISS was never tighter than the "Revenge" lineup.

Tell us you became a fan in 1992, without telling us.

Peter Criss is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Eric Singer is not, and never will be.

Game. Set. Match.

I have spoken.

F*cking A, Right.

Farce wouldn’t know a good drummer if he got hit in the back of the head with a pair of drum sticks.

Eric Singer is one of the most bland drummers of the genre. Even his singing voice was bland.

[Tommy2Tone84]

from what I understand, Eric Singer had a hard time playing Peter’s parts and they had to bring in some Valentine guy to show him.
But it was too hard to play the drums properly & sing soulful like Peter so they axed all the Peter songs except Beth, their biggest hit

Eric Singer is a master of pretending to play piano.

Actually, he can't even pretend to play the piano convincingly if you saw the videos.

That shit was pathetically funny.

His name is Kevin Valentine. He played drums on Take It Off and most of Psycho Circus.

[risingfarce]

Actually, they didn't do all that well without him. As evidenced by the fact that he was brought back multiple times and they spent the last 20 years aping his era while telling their drummer to play more like him and impersonate him.

Singer is by far the worst of the the three. Drum machines have more personality in their playing. Carr was a great power drummer and the far more interesting of the two Erics, but Peter gave Kiss their sound and they never came close to sounding as good or as unique without him.

The original Kiss is a perfect example of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Eric Singer was the KISS drummer on KISS' longest (250 dates) and most successful tour, not Criss.

Musically, Criss isn't talented enough to carry Singer's and Carr's drumsticks.

Criss was brought back, then fired and replaced by a real drummer each time.

Singer has stated that Gene and Paul never dictated how he was to play the material. Singer made the decisions, whether to hot rod the songs or to play them like the studio versions. He had no issues playing in either fashion. Always top notch. Always a professional. Always a great bandmate.

You don't need to like Singer or his playing, but it's evident you're uneducated when it comes to musical talent. Saying Criss is a great drummer is ridiculous. The guy couldn't keep time. Terrible right foot. Never consistent. Sloppy right hand. Going in and out of tempo, because he was a terrible timekeeper.

KISS was never tighter than the "Revenge" lineup.

Tell us you became a fan in 1992, without telling us.

Peter Criss is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Eric Singer is not, and never will be.

Game. Set. Match.

I have spoken.

Which part of "I discovered the band in 1976. Bought "Destroyer" in 1977." didn't you understand, asshat? It's in my post right above your post.

RaRHoF is a joke, just like Peter Criss and his "drumming".

[Tommy2Tone84]

Eric Singer was the KISS drummer on KISS' longest (250 dates) and most successful tour, not Criss.

Musically, Criss isn't talented enough to carry Singer's and Carr's drumsticks.

Criss was brought back, then fired and replaced by a real drummer each time.

Singer has stated that Gene and Paul never dictated how he was to play the material. Singer made the decisions, whether to hot rod the songs or to play them like the studio versions. He had no issues playing in either fashion. Always top notch. Always a professional. Always a great bandmate.

You don't need to like Singer or his playing, but it's evident you're uneducated when it comes to musical talent. Saying Criss is a great drummer is ridiculous. The guy couldn't keep time. Terrible right foot. Never consistent. Sloppy right hand. Going in and out of tempo, because he was a terrible timekeeper.

KISS was never tighter than the "Revenge" lineup.

Tell us you became a fan in 1992, without telling us.

Peter Criss is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Eric Singer is not, and never will be.

Game. Set. Match.

I have spoken.

Which part of "I discovered the band in 1976. Bought "Destroyer" in 1977." didn't you understand, asshat? It's in my post right above your post.

RaRHoF is a joke, just like Peter Criss and his "drumming".

Farce, how much butthurt does it bring you knowing Kevin Valentine played on Take It Off, not your buddy Eric Singer? I guess some things even Mr Maestro Singer just can’t quite play right. So they had to bring in the pro.

[risingfarce]

Eric Singer and the Revenge lineup could never touch the original band no matter how much Paul tried to convince us otherwise in the press at the time. Baton Rouge 1974, Winterland 1975, Tulsa 1975, Detroit 1976, Memphis 1976, Tokyo 1977, The Great Western Forum 1977, Largo 1977. The Revenge lineup can’t touch any of that. You’re such an Eric Singer apologist, it sounds like you didn’t discover the band until 1992.

The band always played for the fans who attended. It didn’t matter what year or tour. They did that when Vinnie and Mark were in the band.

Thank you for proving my original point about historical revision and showing your bias toward Eric Singer. Eric Singer is by far the least best singer of the three drummers. Peter is by far the best. Neither Eric’s had distinct voices but I will always prefer Carr’s voice and drumming to Eric Singer’s. Singer can be as technical as he wants, I never found his drumming to be mind blowing or memorable. I am only a fan of his time in the band for one reason, and one reason only, Bruce Kulick. Same with Vinnie and Mark. I’m not a fan of either one and I certainly don’t think Vinnie “saved” KISS. The only reason I kept going was because of Eric Carr. Gene has always credited Eric Carr. I’ve never heard him praise or credit Eric Singer the way he does Carr.

I wasn’t able to attend the Revenge tour. Just as I wasn’t able to attend the Unmasked, Lick it Up, Animalize or Asylum tours. The Holiday Inn tour I chose not to attend.

Eric Singer fans can spin the Holiday Inn Express tour any way they want. I always found it bizarre that Paul and Gene always had to book arena tours no matter how abysmal the ticket sales and turn outs were. They would never even think of booking a theater tour when the demand or lack of demand necessitated it like it did on the Tenth Anniversary and Revenge tours. But they gladly booked a tour of Holiday Inns and spun it into “this is something special.” I was embarrassed at the time. I would have gladly taken a theater tour with deep cuts littered throughout the setlist. I chose to see the Bad Boys tour instead. Had Eric Carr lived and still been in the band, I would have spent the dough, gas and travel time to see the Holiday Inn tour. Eric Singer’s presence was enough of a turn off to stay home.

I saw the Carr/Kulick lineup twice and both times they brought their A Game even if Paul brought a mediocre setlist to the Crazy Nights tour. That was his pattern until HITS. He didn’t bring it on Asylum either. He can blame Gene all he wants but I think some of those 80s songs he couldn’t sing for a whole tour. Hence little to no I’ve Had Enough, Get All You Can Take, King of the Mountain, Who Wants To Be Lonely and Turn On The Night or maybe Paul was just lazy.

I’ve been a fan since the late 70s. I saw the band a half a dozen times over the years. At times it was a struggle. I never liked Vinnie or Mark. I felt they were both poor choices and very wrong for the band. Bruce was the right fit. He was always a top notch player and nothing but a pro. If not him, somebody as good and better than two selfish, self-absorbed wankers like Vinnie and Mark.

The tours I wish I had been able to see are every tour from 1974 to 1979 even when Peter was at his worst in 1979. Unmasked, Animalize with Bruce and Asylum. Other than that, I’m good.

You can keep Eric Singer. I’ll take Criss and Carr every day and thrice on Sunday.

The original lineup (70s version) was never at the level that the "Revenge" lineup was at. They weren't even at the level of the Singer/Thayer lineup. The only issues with the Singer/Thayer lineup was Paul's voice. The band was tight musically. Paul's medical issues with his vocal cords hurt that lineup.

I discovered the band in 1976. Bought "Destroyer" in 1977. The "Revenge" lineup buried the original lineup and all other lineups. That's what happens when the musicians are top notch professionals.

Not only was Peter a shitty drummer (couldn't keep time; shitty right foot; sloppy), but he was a shitty singer, too. Off key and couldn't hold a note to save his life.

You weren't able to attend the "Revenge" tour. I did.

You chose to not attend the Konvention tour. I did.

So, you have no firsthand knowledge of how well that lineup played.

KISS went from being the best lineup they ever had been to hiring two drunk, drug addicted has beens. 1996 to 2000 was KISS at its lowest point musically. The band, sans Paul, sucked. To you it's about makeup and outfits. To me it's always been about the music.

from what I understand, Eric Singer had a hard time playing Peter’s parts and they had to bring in some Valentine guy to show him.
But it was too hard to play the drums properly & sing soulful like Peter so they axed all the Peter songs except Beth, their biggest hit

You understand wrong.

Singer had no issue playing anything in KISS' catalog.

Kevin Valentine, a longtime friend of Eric Singer's, was brought in to record the drum parts for "Take It Off", due to Eric Singer needing to leave the "Revenge" recording sessions to go on tour with Alice Cooper. Eric quickly recorded a take for the song, told Bob Ezrin that he didn't like what he played, and suggested to get Valentine to record the part. Had nothing to do with Singer's drumming skills.

Valentine showed nobody anything. He was brought in to record the drum parts on one song. That's it.

Eric Singer has performed "Black Diamond", "Nothin' To Lose", "Kissin' Time", "Mainline", "Strange Ways", "Getaway", "Beth", and "All For The Love Of Rock & Roll" with KISS.

BTW, "Beth" isn't KISS' biggest hit.

[risingfarce]

from what I understand, Eric Singer had a hard time playing Peter’s parts and they had to bring in some Valentine guy to show him.
But it was too hard to play the drums properly & sing soulful like Peter so they axed all the Peter songs except Beth, their biggest hit

Eric Singer is a master of pretending to play piano.

Actually, he can't even pretend to play the piano convincingly if you saw the videos.

He put more effort into it than Peter did.

[risingfarce]

Actually, they didn't do all that well without him. As evidenced by the fact that he was brought back multiple times and they spent the last 20 years aping his era while telling their drummer to play more like him and impersonate him.

Singer is by far the worst of the the three. Drum machines have more personality in their playing. Carr was a great power drummer and the far more interesting of the two Erics, but Peter gave Kiss their sound and they never came close to sounding as good or as unique without him.

The original Kiss is a perfect example of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Eric Singer was the KISS drummer on KISS' longest (250 dates) and most successful tour, not Criss.

Musically, Criss isn't talented enough to carry Singer's and Carr's drumsticks.

Criss was brought back, then fired and replaced by a real drummer each time.

Singer has stated that Gene and Paul never dictated how he was to play the material. Singer made the decisions, whether to hot rod the songs or to play them like the studio versions. He had no issues playing in either fashion. Always top notch. Always a professional. Always a great bandmate.

You don't need to like Singer or his playing, but it's evident you're uneducated when it comes to musical talent. Saying Criss is a great drummer is ridiculous. The guy couldn't keep time. Terrible right foot. Never consistent. Sloppy right hand. Going in and out of tempo, because he was a terrible timekeeper.

KISS was never tighter than the "Revenge" lineup.

You’re really in love with Eric Singer. Is it the blonde hair? Singer was king of the scabs whose playing was blaher than blah. I never loved his drumming. He lacked something. Maybe it was a personality? Maybe it was a originality? Maybe it was a soul? Eric Singer is the musical equivalent of a loaf of Wonder Bread. I have many favorite drummers, many of whom wouldn’t be caught playing for Gene and Paul, who I would’ve rather saw and heard play for KISS after the passing of Eric Carr.

I saw Carr twice. I saw Criss twice and I saw Singer twice. You can keep Singer. I’ll take the original band and any lineup with Carr including the three shows with Methmouth Norton on the Animalize tour. I’d rather see Criss in 1979 at his worst than Singer at his best. He’s that f*cking blah.

KISS essentially ended for me with the death of Eric Carr. Did I still buy Revenge, Xtreme Closeup, COS, Unplugged, Psycho Circus, attend the Reunion and first Farewell tour etc? Yes, but it wasn’t the same and was never going to be the same. KISS for me, for better and at times, worse was 1974 to 1990. After that it’s just a relic of something great that once was.

I got a good laugh when Eric Singer got severely butthurt over the Reunion and Gene giving Singer full credit for being the instigator of it. When he had no problems replacing Eric Carr while Eric Carr was laying in a hospital bed dying from a terminal condition.

Another moronic post from you.

[Tommy2Tone84]

The original lineup (70s version) was never at the level that the "Revenge" lineup was at. They weren't even at the level of the Singer/Thayer lineup. The only issues with the Singer/Thayer lineup was Paul's voice. The band was tight musically. Paul's medical issues with his vocal cords hurt that lineup.

I discovered the band in 1976. Bought "Destroyer" in 1977. The "Revenge" lineup buried the original lineup and all other lineups. That's what happens when the musicians are top notch professionals.

Not only was Peter a shitty drummer (couldn't keep time; shitty right foot; sloppy), but he was a shitty singer, too. Off key and couldn't hold a note to save his life.

You weren't able to attend the "Revenge" tour. I did.

You chose to not attend the Konvention tour. I did.

So, you have no firsthand knowledge of how well that lineup played.

KISS went from being the best lineup they ever had been to hiring two drunk, drug addicted has beens. 1996 to 2000 was KISS at its lowest point musically. The band, sans Paul, sucked. To you it's about makeup and outfits. To me it's always been about the music.

from what I understand, Eric Singer had a hard time playing Peter’s parts and they had to bring in some Valentine guy to show him.
But it was too hard to play the drums properly & sing soulful like Peter so they axed all the Peter songs except Beth, their biggest hit

You understand wrong.

Singer had no issue playing anything in KISS' catalog.

Kevin Valentine, a longtime friend of Eric Singer's, was brought in to record the drum parts for "Take It Off", due to Eric Singer needing to leave the "Revenge" recording sessions to go on tour with Alice Cooper. Eric quickly recorded a take for the song, told Bob Ezrin that he didn't like what he played, and suggested to get Valentine to record the part. Had nothing to do with Singer's drumming skills.

Valentine showed nobody anything. He was brought in to record the drum parts on one song. That's it.

Eric Singer has performed "Black Diamond", "Nothin' To Lose", "Kissin' Time", "Mainline", "Strange Ways", "Getaway", "Beth", and "All For The Love Of Rock & Roll" with KISS.

BTW, "Beth" isn't KISS' biggest hit.

Well, that we know of. Ghost musicians like Valentine had to sign NDAs back then.

I thought Eric Singer was omnipresent? A king of kings? A drumlord of drumlords? He couldn’t just finish the album before he went off and played pretend Neal Smith?

Oh well. Scabbers gonna scab.

[risingfarce]

Tell us you became a fan in 1992, without telling us.

Peter Criss is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Eric Singer is not, and never will be.

Game. Set. Match.

I have spoken.

Which part of "I discovered the band in 1976. Bought "Destroyer" in 1977." didn't you understand, asshat? It's in my post right above your post.

RaRHoF is a joke, just like Peter Criss and his "drumming".

Farce, how much butthurt does it bring you knowing Kevin Valentine played on Take It Off, not your buddy Eric Singer? I guess some things even Mr Maestro Singer just can’t quite play right. So they had to bring in the pro.

Had nothing to do with Singer's skills. He had to leave the recording sessions for an Alice Cooper tour. That's what an in-demand musician does. Then you have Peter Criss. Nobody was knocking on his door at that time.

[risingfarce]

from what I understand, Eric Singer had a hard time playing Peter’s parts and they had to bring in some Valentine guy to show him.
But it was too hard to play the drums properly & sing soulful like Peter so they axed all the Peter songs except Beth, their biggest hit

You understand wrong.

Singer had no issue playing anything in KISS' catalog.

Kevin Valentine, a longtime friend of Eric Singer's, was brought in to record the drum parts for "Take It Off", due to Eric Singer needing to leave the "Revenge" recording sessions to go on tour with Alice Cooper. Eric quickly recorded a take for the song, told Bob Ezrin that he didn't like what he played, and suggested to get Valentine to record the part. Had nothing to do with Singer's drumming skills.

Valentine showed nobody anything. He was brought in to record the drum parts on one song. That's it.

Eric Singer has performed "Black Diamond", "Nothin' To Lose", "Kissin' Time", "Mainline", "Strange Ways", "Getaway", "Beth", and "All For The Love Of Rock & Roll" with KISS.

BTW, "Beth" isn't KISS' biggest hit.

Well, that we know of. Ghost musicians like Valentine had to sign NDAs back then.

I thought Eric Singer was omnipresent? A king of kings? A drumlord of drumlords? He couldn’t just finish the album before he went off and played pretend Neal Smith?

Oh well. Scabbers gonna scab.

In-demand musicians work and make money. Nobody was calling Peter Criss at that time.

[Tommy2Tone84]

Another moronic post from you.

Says the guy who thinks Eric Singer and Tommy are better than the original band.

[risingfarce]

Another moronic post from you.

Says the guy who thinks Eric Singer and Tommy are better than the original band.

Coming from a guy who thinks Peter Criss is a good drummer and singer.

LOL

Q-Tips. Try them.

[Tommy2Tone84]

In-demand musicians work and make money. Nobody was calling Peter Criss at that time.

Peter was semi-retired at that point in time. Ace called him a couple years later.

Peter never had to pretend to be Eric Singer. Eric Singer has made a career out of pretending to be Peter Criss.

[Tommy2Tone84]

Another moronic post from you.

Says the guy who thinks Eric Singer and Tommy are better than the original band.

Coming from a guy who thinks Peter Criss is a good drummer and singer.

LOL

Q-Tips. Try them.

You first. LOL.

[NeonKnite]

Had nothing to do with Singer's skills. He had to leave the recording sessions for an Alice Cooper tour. That's what an in-demand musician does. Then you have Peter Criss. Nobody was knocking on his door at that time.

And yet when they had to record Psycho Circus, they brought in Valentine over Singer. By the way, Valentine is 100 times the drummer Singer is.

[AlexVonHaig]

do people in 2025 still debate with losers like Risingtard? I mean we all know what she is. Never going to change her mind. I dont blame her tho, she who she is. I do find a concern for those that choose to engage her

[HueyRamone]

do people in 2025 still debate with losers like Risingtard? I mean we all know what she is. Never going to change her mind. I dont blame her tho, she who she is. I do find a concern for those that choose to engage her

Rising Farce is a chick? Wow. All this time I thought she was a guy. She def has a guy's posting style. Could this be a Michellish situation?

[Hatchets Molly]

do people in 2025 still debate with losers like Risingtard? I mean we all know what she is. Never going to change her mind. I dont blame her tho, she who she is. I do find a concern for those that choose to engage her

Rising Farce is a chick? Wow. All this time I thought she was a guy. She def has a guy's posting style. Could this be a Michellish situation?

I figured he was saying she to imply he acted like a chick in his emotional responses. So now, IDK.

[HueyRamone]

do people in 2025 still debate with losers like Risingtard? I mean we all know what she is. Never going to change her mind. I dont blame her tho, she who she is. I do find a concern for those that choose to engage her

Rising Farce is a chick? Wow. All this time I thought she was a guy. She def has a guy's posting style. Could this be a Michellish situation?

I figured he was saying she to imply he acted like a chick in his emotional responses. So now, IDK.

Im pretty sure Rising Farce likes Extreme, and that's a band for girls. Im pretty sure thats the More than Words band. But most girls love Beth, so now I dont know what to think.